Yorkie, you are assuming that supervisors/managers are always available.
A lot of Merseyrail barriered stations do not have supervisors or managers available on site, just Station Retailers/Assts Secondly, it is also a very big assumption that the supervisor/managers know what they're doing. Considering most of the time it's them training the staff in the first place, getting what you want from the manager(s) may not go how you expect.
I don't think I've ever said that asking for a manager is going to guarantee success, but I can give examples of where it has resolved the situation in the customers favour, and I gave one example in this topic.
You say these are lazy, incompetent staff,
I've not said that staff may be "lazy" since 30th June 2009, and I stand by what I said then! As for "incompetent", last time I said that staff were incompetent was on 9th February refering to the
Virgin Oyster Travelcard incident, again I stand by the claim of incompetence.
I've not called staff lazy or incompetent in this topic, if you want to take issue with something I've said in another topic perhaps you can quote it to me in a PM or, if the topic is recent, reply to that topic?
Also your issue with me saying people should "demand", I said "ask" in this topic, and it appears that you are having a go at me for things I've said in other topics. Again, please can you let me know where you have an issue and I'll reply.
yet as I have said above, it's usually the managers issuing instructions not to do these things.
Well surely you should welcome asking to speak to a manager then? As it may be the case that the customer can get to the root of the problem and ensure that it is the manager who gets reported (if necessary) to Customer Services rather than the staff 'on the ground'?
With regard to excesses in particular, a lot of the older staff there will not excess tickets from outside the Merseyrail network, citing "booking office rules". What I think has happened here is that they have confused not being able to excess ADVANCE tickets, to not excessing any ticket at all, as no instructions on excessing fares have been provided to many staff.
Well, again, if I was told that, I'd want to know who had instructed them to say that, and take it further. I accept a manager may not be available on demand, but a letter can be written later asking for this manager to be re-trained and to issue correct guidance to his/her staff.
If you ask 90% of barrier/retail staff on Merseyrail, you will find that they will have never been told about the routeing guide, the FRPP, ticket restrictions etc. This is all management decisions. If someone does start complaining, and they seek clarification from their supervisor, and their supervisor doesn't know either- the only way you can deal with this is to contact the Customer Relations dept, (who are quite good). Station Assistants don't even have access to a computer at work. I also know that there are a lot of station staff who would value the opportunity to learn more, but they are told no.
Again, so asking for a manager can help the customer to determine exactly where the problem lies.
Instead of getting fustrated at the barrier staff/retailer, fine, ask for the supervisor, but don't be surprised if they back the staff up, because they've not had that much more training that the barrier staff.
I'm not going to tell people they should, or shouldn't, be frustrated. Of course some people are going to be frustrated. I'm sure the staff who are (whether deliberately or not) being obstructive would find it frustrating if they experienced problems going about their business when they themselves are customers in their spare time. If the supervisor backs up the member of staff when the staff member is giving wrong information, then that means that it can be made clear when making the complaint that it is the managers who need to be given suitable advice.
You can't really blame most front line staff for the way they do their job. Certain TOCs seem to think that 2 weeks, (10 days) "training" is sufficient for someone who knows nothing about the railway. It's the senior managers who don't realise what frustration this is causing to the general public and either won't authorise finances to allow more thorough re-training or will not accept there's a problem in the first place.
I am not saying that the front line staff are to blame in all cases. But asking for a manager can help identify where the problem lies. If you say that in many cases it is the manager who is to blame, then fine, and surely when a customer has a problem that they need to take forward, it is better that they discover that it is the managers who are the cause of the problem, rather than front-line staff, and the managers who can be given instructions by Customer Services to sort it out.
If I'm being refused excesses, rovers, split tickets or anything else out of the ordinary but covered under the rules of Impartial Retailing at my local station, I want it sorting, and yes I am going to get frustrated, and I am not going to walk away and accept it. Fortunately my local station is excellent for such things, but I realise that for some people they are not so fortunate and have bad experiences. I want them to get a better experience, and so should you, and everyone else in the industry. And to do that they should not walk away and accept being fobbed off; they need to take it further.
, and agree.
I think the term 'to demand' something doesn't imply or require rudeness; it implies that you have a right to it and it implies that you need to be firm in asking for it. But to use the expression "I demand" when addressing someone is likely to be seen as rude. I'll try to be more careful next time! (Although I didn't actually say that the OP should demand his ticket back, I said he should ask for it 
)