Delays due to "train cancellations"

ctrh136

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I've noticed recently quite a few times that a reason for delays is "train cancellations" as per the below.

Is this just another way of saying that there is a reduced service due to Covid? In which case why don't they just change the timetables?

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Dstock7080

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Reduced services are operating on weekends without engineering work on Circle and H&C Lines, combination of reduced staffing levels and rolling stock defects.

(today Saturday, two trains were operating each traditional Circle and fifteen trains between Hammersmith-Barking)
 
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40129

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That sounds very similar to what they used to announce quite regularly when I lived in London 20 years ago. Think the full text was" ... line is running with delays due to late running, cancellations and extended intervals" Translation: delays due to delays. Their other classic was/is "... line part suspended between x and y" when no passenger trains whatsoever were operating on that section i.e. suspended or fully suspended not part suspended
 

Mojo

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A lot of staff are missing because of government advice associated with Covid-19; Timetables aren’t being changed across the board this time because the staff availability is changing quite regularly, and also more staff are available this time compared to last spring / summer.
 

bramling

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I've noticed recently quite a few times that a reason for delays is "train cancellations" as per the below.

Is this just another way of saying that there is a reduced service due to Covid? In which case why don't they just change the timetables?

View attachment 90553

Quite simply, it means they have a list of uncovered or part-uncovered crew duties, which in turns means trains will be cancelled for the durations of the periods when no driver is available. In turn this causes consequential issues, as if for example a train arrives at a relief point and the next driver is unavailable then the incoming driver will have to take the train to a siding, which could then make that driver late for his next train. So quite a bit of disruption can occur even for a small list of uncovered duties.

How this affects the service as a whole will depend on the extent so which the control staff are able to smooth things over - for example planning ways of taking trains out without causing a knock-on delay/cancellation. Unfortunately weekends in particular tend to be tight at the best of times for various reasons, so this reduces the number of options available for doing things seamlessly. Add to that a few short-notice sicknesses and even the best-laid plans can end up going awry.

As for why there’s uncovered duties at the moment, lots of reasons - Covid, training, vacancies, places bring under establishment in the first place, half term, staff being fed up, et cetera. Unlike national rail LU is attempting to deliver a 100% service (apart from bits like the W&C), and to be fair they haven’t done too badly considering the depleted resources.

It doesn’t help that no one really knows what the government has in mind regarding getting life back to normal, so it’s not easy to devise a suitable timetable. Meanwhile there’s the government versus mayor politics which has essentially set Khan up to commit to a 100% service with less than 100% resource to support it.
 

bcarmicle

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Their other classic was/is "... line part suspended between x and y" when no passenger trains whatsoever were operating on that section i.e. suspended or fully suspended not part suspended
I think that's used to distinguish part of the line being suspended from the whole line being suspended, rather than only some trains operating on that section.
 

bluegoblin7

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Unlike national rail LU is attempting to deliver a 100% service (apart from bits like the W&C), and to be fair they haven’t done too badly considering the depleted resources.
In this case the weekend reduced service on the C&H is very much planned, until further notice. Traditional Circle service regulated as necessary.
 

Horizon22

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Quite simply, it means they have a list of uncovered or part-uncovered crew duties, which in turns means trains will be cancelled for the durations of the periods when no driver is available. In turn this causes consequential issues, as if for example a train arrives at a relief point and the next driver is unavailable then the incoming driver will have to take the train to a siding, which could then make that driver late for his next train. So quite a bit of disruption can occur even for a small list of uncovered duties.

How this affects the service as a whole will depend on the extent so which the control staff are able to smooth things over - for example planning ways of taking trains out without causing a knock-on delay/cancellation. Unfortunately weekends in particular tend to be tight at the best of times for various reasons, so this reduces the number of options available for doing things seamlessly. Add to that a few short-notice sicknesses and even the best-laid plans can end up going awry.

As for why there’s uncovered duties at the moment, lots of reasons - Covid, training, vacancies, places bring under establishment in the first place, half term, staff being fed up, et cetera. Unlike national rail LU is attempting to deliver a 100% service (apart from bits like the W&C), and to be fair they haven’t done too badly considering the depleted resources.

It doesn’t help that no one really knows what the government has in mind regarding getting life back to normal, so it’s not easy to devise a suitable timetable. Meanwhile there’s the government versus mayor politics which has essentially set Khan up to commit to a 100% service with less than 100% resource to support it.

This seems fair, but delays "due to train cancellations" is a very bizarre way of stating it to the public. Delays "due to a shortage of train crew" should be the normal way of declaring it.
 

Lewlew

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This seems fair, but delays "due to train cancellations" is a very bizarre way of stating it to the public. Delays "due to a shortage of train crew" should be the normal way of declaring it.
They've been stopped from saying exactly that by the unions due to drivers receiving (or potentially receiving) abuse from passengers for not turning up to work. (Even though they are at work at the time). Stereotypical lazy tube driver and all that.
 

TFN

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The Circle Line was closed after 2000hrs yesterday (14/02/21) and passengers advised to use District and H&C. First time I've ever seen that. "Delays due to train cancellations" looks to be affecting the Bakerloo, H&C and Circle Lines mostly.
 

Mcr Warrior

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This seems fair, but delays "due to train cancellations" is a very bizarre way of stating it to the public. Delays "due to a shortage of train crew" should be the normal way of declaring it.
Circumlocution at its very best. Sir Humphrey would be most impressed! ;)
 

bramling

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This seems fair, but delays "due to train cancellations" is a very bizarre way of stating it to the public. Delays "due to a shortage of train crew" should be the normal way of declaring it.

I agree it’s an odd choice of language that doesn’t really mean much to the target audience. No doubt there’s an element of politics to it.
 

Ralph Ayres

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It does make it sound as though the trains are running more slowly than usual, or stopping at every signal or something, when in fact there are fewer of them with longer gaps between and there won't even be the hold-ups at busy stations you would get in normal times with too many people trying to squeeze onto an already-packed train. It really doesn't make it clear to the average punter that there might be a longer wait than usual for a train. I wonder if this is partly so people aren't encouraged to run for a train they might be about to miss if they realise the next one might be some way behind?
 

Horizon22

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They've been stopped from saying exactly that by the unions due to drivers receiving (or potentially receiving) abuse from passengers for not turning up to work. (Even though they are at work at the time). Stereotypical lazy tube driver and all that.

That's rather ridiculous, TOCs use it all the time and I don't think drivers are getting loads of abuse! You can word it in many different ways but the reason should be a bit clearer.
 

Tube driver

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That's rather ridiculous, TOCs use it all the time and I don't think drivers are getting loads of abuse! You can word it in many different ways but the reason should be a bit clearer.
We were getting it on the neck a while ago and getting grief due to ‘an absence of train operators’ when it was more a resourcing issue rather than a load of drivers pulling a sickie but the public never saw it that way so the language was changed to something more generic and less accusatory.
 

Horizon22

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We were getting it on the neck a while ago and getting grief due to ‘an absence of train operators’ when it was more a resourcing issue rather than a load of drivers pulling a sickie but the public never saw it that way so the language was changed to something more generic and less accusatory.

Yes it's almost always a resourcing issue. A realistic reason would be better for a delay as cancellations are separate issue entirely!
 

TFN

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Metropolitan and Circle Lines completely suspended on Sunday and no District Line between Edgware Road and HSK, coupled with planned closure on the H&C.
 

Lewlew

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Metropolitan and Circle Lines completely suspended on Sunday and no District Line between Edgware Road and HSK, coupled with planned closure on the H&C.
Indeed, lack of control room staff
 

Hadders

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I saw posters at Baker Street today advertising that it is likely there might be no service on the entire line before 07:30 and after 21:00.

Also, I was travelling to Kings Cross St Pancras and had a 14 minute wait for a train. This was around 18:00 on a Friday evening!
 

700007

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Bakerloo line has been suffering the same issue for a few weeks now, with the line frequently being suspended early mornings and lates and no daytime service north of Queen's Park.

Metropolitan line rail replacement buses will be in operation
ML-1 from Wembley Park all stations to Harrow (for some reason, not Rayners Lane to connect with the Piccadilly?)
ML-2 from Harrow all stations to Northwood, then Rickmansworth, Croxley and Watford.
ML-5 from Northwood to Moor Park
ML-6 from Amersham to Chesham
Passengers to use the Jubilee line, Chiltern and local bus services where rail replacement buses don't reach.
 

Mojo

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Good luck using Chiltern services, they are also suspended over the Met all day.
TfLs advice not mine!
In a fashion it's not daft advice, after all Chiltern also serve West Ruislip (potentially serving a Met line destination Ruislip / Ickenham and also useful for bus connections to Uxbridge), as well as Denham / Gerrards Cross / Beaconsfield that aren't too far from Uxbridge / Rickmansworth / Chalfont / Chorleywood / Amersham etc; however the strange thing is that the message implies that tickets will only be valid on the via Amersham line - which as you mention will also be affected!
 

TFN

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ML-1 from Wembley Park all stations to Harrow (for some reason, not Rayners Lane to connect with the Piccadilly?)

TfL website now updated to show it stopping at Rayners Lane.
Good luck using Chiltern services, they are also suspended over the Met all day.
What's the reason for this? Where can I find this information? Thanks
 

Mawkie

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TfL website now updated to show it stopping at Rayners Lane.

What's the reason for this? Where can I find this information? Thanks
The latest info given to LU staff is that Chiltern are running on Sunday (subject to cancellations) and the Pic is running to Uxbridge.
 

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Snow1964

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They've been stopped from saying exactly that by the unions due to drivers receiving (or potentially receiving) abuse from passengers for not turning up to work. (Even though they are at work at the time). Stereotypical lazy tube driver and all that.

So the Unions are in charge of passenger advice now

..... gutless management
 

philthetube

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So the Unions are in charge of passenger advice now

..... gutless management

stopped is the wrong word, strongly requested is better, there were documented incidents of staff being abused over this issue, I assume that you are not saying that this should not have been changed because the unions wanted it.

It would be poor management which did not act in this case.

TfL website now updated to show it stopping at Rayners Lane.

What's the reason for this? Where can I find this information? Thanks

from what I understand, and I may be wrong, lack of controllers.
 

Taunton

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This seems fair, but delays "due to train cancellations" is a very bizarre way of stating it to the public.
A generation ago a chalked blackboard notice read "Delays due to earlier late running ...".
 

jacksmithyton

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Metropolitan and Circle Lines completely suspended on Sunday and no District Line between Edgware Road and HSK, coupled with planned closure on the H&C.
This is really not good enough. My sister is a nurse and now with the Met line suspended on Sunday she can't get into work, meaning that an already critically understaffed ward is now dangerously so...
 

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