Denied through ticket to Stansted airport

[AJD]

Hi all,

Had what I felt was an unusual experience an SWR station and I'd be interested in knowing who is in the right here.

I asked for a ticket from Woking to Stansted Airport on my PRIV and was bluntly and dismissively given a 'no.'

Initially thought it was a bit of staff-staff banter but they were dead serious and when I asked why they told me that I can't use a priv discounted ticket on the underground. Told them I'm going to Stansted, not travelling around all day on the underground. They responded with yes but how are you going to get there and I told them what my planned itinerary was including some form of cross London travel to either Liverpool Street or Tottenham Hale. That's when the guy said it was not a permitted route because of the non safeguarded priv rules. Did tell him I'm aware of that and but journeys as part of a through ticket are exempt and even showed him condition 5 on the back of the priv that has it all in black and white but he didn't want to know. Gave up in the end after being told that I may be investigated by RDG and that he's been doing the job for 20+ years and knows what he's talking about yada, yada, yada.

Have the rules changed or is this something that's always been a condition but never enforced? The fact that the back of the priv references through journeys with the Maltese cross sort of gives it away but it's been bugging me all week!

Any thoughts appreciated

 

[Haywain]

In simple terms, he was wrong. Cross-London journeys are permitted and the ticket should have been sold.

 

[yorkie]

Hi all,

Had what I felt was an unusual experience an SWR station and I'd be interested in knowing who is in the right here.

I asked for a ticket from Woking to Stansted Airport on my PRIV and was bluntly and dismissively given a 'no.'

Initially thought it was a bit of staff-staff banter but they were dead serious and when I asked why they told me that I can't use a priv discounted ticket on the underground. Told them I'm going to Stansted, not travelling around all day on the underground. They responded with yes but how are you going to get there and I told them what my planned itinerary was including some form of cross London travel to either Liverpool Street or Tottenham Hale. That's when the guy said it was not a permitted route because of the non safeguarded priv rules. Did tell him I'm aware of that and but journeys as part of a through ticket are exempt and even showed him condition 5 on the back of the priv that has it all in black and white but he didn't want to know. Gave up in the end after being told that I may be investigated by RDG and that he's been doing the job for 20+ heaes and knows what he's talking about yada, yada, yada.

Have the rules changed or is this something that's always been a condition but never enforced? The fact that the back of the priv references through journeys with the Maltese cross sort of gives it away but it's been bugging me all week!

Any thoughts appreciated

Sadly, this sort of "I've worked here for 20 years" attitude is not as uncommon as it should be; I've come across it before at other locations and I know others have too.

I'm fortunate in that I don't typically need to visit ticket offices these days, so I no longer get refused the sale of valid tickets, but I have in the past, so I know how frustrating it can be.

You were wrongly refused the sale, so I would suggest you write to SWR to complain.

Was the ticket for a future journey, or for immediate travel?

If you were overcharged, SWR need to refund the difference; also if you were delayed as a result, SWR should be compensating for that.

I don't understand the mentality of people who go into customer facing jobs and behave in this manner; sadly, the rail industry lacks sufficient safeguards/procedures in place to detect/manage/prevent such behaviour. I can't see that changing.

Please let us know how you get on.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi all,

Had what I felt was an unusual experience an SWR station and I'd be interested in knowing who is in the right here.

I asked for a ticket from Woking to Stansted Airport on my PRIV and was bluntly and dismissively given a 'no.'

Initially thought it was a bit of staff-staff banter but they were dead serious and when I asked why they told me that I can't use a priv discounted ticket on the underground. Told them I'm going to Stansted, not travelling around all day on the underground. They responded with yes but how are you going to get there and I told them what my planned itinerary was including some form of cross London travel to either Liverpool Street or Tottenham Hale. That's when the guy said it was not a permitted route because of the non safeguarded priv rules. Did tell him I'm aware of that and but journeys as part of a through ticket are exempt and even showed him condition 5 on the back of the priv that has it all in black and white but he didn't want to know. Gave up in the end after being told that I may be investigated by RDG and that he's been doing the job for 20+ heaes and knows what he's talking about yada, yada, yada.

Have the rules changed or is this something that's always been a condition but never enforced? The fact that the back of the priv references through journeys with the Maltese cross sort of gives it away but it's been bugging me all week!

Any thoughts appreciated

He’s wrong, and worse, rude. Talking out of his fundament.

 

[43066]

Hi all,

Had what I felt was an unusual experience an SWR station and I'd be interested in knowing who is in the right here.

I asked for a ticket from Woking to Stansted Airport on my PRIV and was bluntly and dismissively given a 'no.'

Initially thought it was a bit of staff-staff banter but they were dead serious and when I asked why they told me that I can't use a priv discounted ticket on the underground. Told them I'm going to Stansted, not travelling around all day on the underground. They responded with yes but how are you going to get there and I told them what my planned itinerary was including some form of cross London travel to either Liverpool Street or Tottenham Hale. That's when the guy said it was not a permitted route because of the non safeguarded priv rules. Did tell him I'm aware of that and but journeys as part of a through ticket are exempt and even showed him condition 5 on the back of the priv that has it all in black and white but he didn't want to know. Gave up in the end after being told that I may be investigated by RDG and that he's been doing the job for 20+ heaes and knows what he's talking about yada, yada, yada.

Have the rules changed or is this something that's always been a condition but never enforced? The fact that the back of the priv references through journeys with the Maltese cross sort of gives it away but it's been bugging me all week!

Any thoughts appreciated

Very poor. I might expect it from TfL ticket offices who aren’t trained on ticketing (and indeed don’t even seem to know what a priv ticket is), but not from an NR station. I would have kicked up a stink and make a formal complaint.

I don't typically need visit ticket offices these days,

They are often the still the easiest/quickest option for staff privs, given how clunky the staff travel website is, especially with operators which don’t have e ticketing. Clearly not in this case, though!

 

[185]

At a time when we are fighting to retain booking offices silliness like this contributes to their demise. The misnomer that staff cant use priv on underground applies to 'solely underground' journeys. For cross-London journeys, that does not apply and for an operator... especially a South East operator to not know this calls into question the standard of their training.

It's easy to say "oh it's not FirstGroups fault if he started 20 years ago at SWT" ..rubbish. The operator is responsible for identifying gaps in training regardless of what it inherited.

Staff are reluctant to report staff, I understand this... an alternative is to tell another (nearby, same TOC) booking office what they did.

 

[AJD]

Thank you all for clarifying. I was almost certain that I wasn't asking them to do anything outside the scope of what I was entitled to and was concerned that I missed an important rule change. In this case I wasn't travelling immediately but did miss the train home that I was aiming for.

I went back the next day to try again and a different clerk was on duty. She wasn't at all bothered when I asked for the ticket and I referenced the events of the previous day but then she paused and said "Oh maybe I need to check. If Mr X said that then it probably is true as he really knows his stuff."

I was happy to wait while she did this (much more polite clerk might I add) and she asked the guy next to her, who didn't know so then phoned another supervisor who couldn't give a concrete response. From what I could hear, they were agreeing with Mr X who I spoke to the previous day, but the difference here is she was quoting condition 5 to her colleague and between them they eventually agreed to issue the ticket but with the stipulation that I only use overground routes to reach Liverpool street or Tottenham Hale. I was advised of this "restriction" about three times before being handed the ticket, albeit reluctantly.

Needless to say I didn't use their routing advice

 

[yorkie]

Thank you all for clarifying. I was almost certain that I wasn't asking them to do anything outside the scope of what I was entitled to and was concerned that I missed an important rule change. In this case I wasn't travelling immediately but did miss the train home that I was aiming for.

I went back the next day to try again and again different clerk was on duty. She wasn't at all bothered when I asked for the ticket and I referenced the events of the previous day but then she paused and said "Oh maybe I need to check. If Mr X said that then it probably is true as he really knows his stuff."

I was happy to wait while she did this (much more polite clerk might I add) and she asked the guy next to her, who didn't know so then phoned another supervisor who couldn't give a concrete response. From what I could hear, they were agreeing with Mr X who I spoke to the previous day, but the difference here is she was quoting condition 5 to her colleague and between them they eventually agreed to issue the ticket but with the stipulation that I only use overground routes to reach Liverpool street or Tottenham Hale. I was advised of this "restriction" about three times before being handed the ticket, albeit reluctantly.

Needless to say I didn't use their routing advice

Sounds like it's an endemic/cultural problem.

Please let us know how SWR respond...

 

[MP393]

If you have a PRIV the presumably you also have access to the Rail Staff Travel website which will allow you to buy priv tickets. As much as it’s not a pretty site, and people will go on to say “save and use the ticket office” if you’re going to have this issue on and on again when buying PRIV tickets through London, then I would suggest using that and collecting your tickets!

At my TOC we can’t sell cross London tickets at all onboard (PRIV or not) but this is due to the ticket stock it prints on not letting it be sold/printed, but it certainly doesn’t seem like that was the issue here

 

[AJD]

Will do. I've received an auto response saying it could take up to four days to message back. Initially tried their phone lines, but it kept me on hold with the usual "we are experiencing a high volume of calls..."

I've done various jobs within the railway before settling down in my current role and I always went the extra mile for staff. Don't understand why others go for the opposite approach. Used to happen at Canterbury West quite a lot when I'd travel home after seeing family. One guy in particular would always ask me to hand him my passes though the hole so he can check them carefully. Not saying he isn't within his rights to do that, just didn't expect it given the railcard holders ahead of me in the queue just presented them as you normally would. Haven't seen him ever since, but would be interested to see if he does it again given how your photo is now embedded into the priv card.

Or maybe I just have one of those faces people don't like? But in all honesty I always smile, talk to them politely etc so I don't think I've rubbed anyone up the wrong way and have brought anything upon myself. I hope.

 

[Starmill]

Will do. I've received an auto response saying it could take up to four days to message back. Initially tried their phone lines, but it kept me on hold with the usual "we are experiencing a high volume of calls..."

I've done various jobs within the railway before settling down in my current role and I always went the extra mile for staff. Don't understand why others go for the opposite approach. Used to happen at Canterbury West quite a lot when I'd travel home after seeing family. One guy in particular would always ask me to hand him my passes though the hole so he can check them carefully. Not saying he isn't within his rights to do that, just didn't expect it given the railcard holders ahead of me in the queue just presented them as you normally would. Haven't seen him ever since, but would be interested to see if he does it again given how your photo is now embedded into the priv card.

Or maybe I just have one of those faces people don't like? But in all honesty I always smile, talk to them politely etc so I don't think I've rubbed anyone up the wrong way and have brought anything upon myself. I hope.

Honestly I am sure it's nothing to do with you, please don't let it get you down. I think some people are just very grumpy.

 

[yorkie]

Will do. I've received an auto response saying it could take up to four days to message back. Initially tried their phone lines, but it kept me on hold with the usual "we are experiencing a high volume of calls..."

If you would like me to see if it can be fast tracked, feel free to send me a message with the reference number.

I've done various jobs within the railway before settling down in my current role and I always went the extra mile for staff. Don't understand why others go for the opposite approach. Used to happen at Canterbury West quite a lot when I'd travel home after seeing family. One guy in particular would always ask me to hand him my passes though the hole so he can check them carefully. Not saying he isn't within his rights to do that, just didn't expect it given the railcard holders ahead of me in the queue just presented them as you normally would. Haven't seen him ever since, but would be interested to see if he does it again given how your photo is now embedded into the priv card.

The rail industry has some great people who go the extra mile to help others, but at the opposite end of the scale it also has some who seem to revel in being awkward. In my experience, the former outweigh the latter, but the latter can be more noticeable and of course more memorable. They undo a lot of the good work the industry does.

Or maybe I just have one of those faces people don't like? But in all honesty I always smile, talk to them politely etc so I don't think I've rubbed anyone up the wrong way and have brought anything upon myself. I hope.

I can assure you it will be nothing to do with you; the sort of behaviour you describe has occurred at multiple locations over the years and to many people.

 

[43066]

I've done various jobs within the railway before settling down in my current role and I always went the extra mile for staff.

The vast majority do (eg IME it’s common for guards to allow free travel, allow staff to sit in first etc. without using boxes), but there are a few who seem to revel in making things awkward for their railway colleagues.

I have regular arguments with TfL ticket line staff over ticket acceptance on LU when presenting a rail staff travel season ticket smart card on my commute. Their complaint is generally that they don’t know what it is; I’m always polite, but my response rapidly devolves to “that’s your problem, not mine”.

 

[embers25]

Not sure if this was Woking but Woking ticket office has several staff that regularly respond this way and refuse to sell valid tickets and then try to overcharge claiming they know best as they've been there for years. There are also w good staff but the bad ones are thd worst I've come across anywhere.

 

[Hadders]

This is appalling. If staff can't even sell the correct ticket and offer great customer service to other members of staff then what hope has a normal passenger got?

Please do make a complaint becuase only by complaining will anything be done.

 

[bb21]

If this were only one individual then it doesn't really surprise me. The industry is full of dead wood in certain places.

But multiple staff in the same team is absolutely atrocious.

 

[AJD]

Wasn't issued from Woking in this case and I certainly don't want the wrong station/team to be dragged into anything! It happened at a different, large station quite far away in this case. I have since discussed it with colleagues and some report having similar issues at Paddington and Waterloo. I expected the large terminus offices to be hot on this stuff, but there you have it.

I'll let them try and sort it locally first and if that doesn't work then I'll come back for advice about the next steps. It was frustrating as I thought I'd be diligent and organised by getting a ticket ahead of travel as I had some time to wait before the train arrived.

Thank you all for your advice so far. I'll await a reply from the TOC and repost when I hear back.

 

[Hadders]

Wasn't issued from Woking in this case and I certainly don't want the wrong station/team to be dragged into anything! It happened at a different, large station quite far away in this case. I have since discussed it with colleagues and some report having similar issues at Paddington and Waterloo. I expected the large terminus offices to be hot on this stuff, but there you have it.

I'll let them try and sort it locally first and if that doesn't work then I'll come back for advice about the next steps. It was frustrating as I thought I'd be diligent and organised by getting a ticket ahead of travel as I had some time to wait before the train arrived.

Thank you all for your advice so far. I'll await a reply from the TOC and repost when I hear back.

Just to be clear, you visited a SWR station to purchase a PRIV discounted Woking to Stansted ticket and was refused. This didn't happen at Woking but at another SWR operated ticket office?

You really should complain to SWR about this. While I can understand not wanting to get the member of staff into trouble, if this is the level of advice offered to a member of staff then I wouldn't trust them to issue the correct ticket to a member of the public.

 

[philthetube]

If you would like me to see if it can be fast tracked, feel free to send me a message with the reference number.

The rail industry has some great people who go the extra mile to help others, but at the opposite end of the scale it also has some who seem to revel in being awkward. In my experience, the former outweigh the latter, but the latter can be more noticeable and of course more memorable. They undo a lot of the good work the industry does.

I can assure you it will be nothing to do with you; the sort of behaviour you describe has occurred at multiple locations over the years and to many people.

I would let it drift through the system, you are much more likely to get an interesting answer

 

[redreni]

At a time when we are fighting to retain booking offices silliness like this contributes to their demise. The misnomer that staff cant use priv on underground applies to 'solely underground' journeys. For cross-London journeys, that does not apply and for an operator... especially a South East operator to not know this calls into question the standard of their training.

It's easy to say "oh it's not FirstGroups fault if he started 20 years ago at SWT" ..rubbish. The operator is responsible for identifying gaps in training regardless of what it inherited.

Staff are reluctant to report staff, I understand this... an alternative is to tell another (nearby, same TOC) booking office what they did.

So solely underground journeys are out and cross-London (aka Maltese Cross) tickets are in.

What about journeys from a NR station to a LU zone or zones? E.g. Slough to Camden Town? Do you have to get a Priv ticket to Paddington and then pay full price on the tube, or can you get a through ticket to LU Zones 1-2?

What about the Elizabeth Line? Are you allowed to get a Priv ticket Slough to Tottenham Court Road, for example? And if so, would it have to be issued to LU Zones 1-2? In which case, although that ticket would normally be valid to any LU station in those zones, would you be required by Priv rules to stick to the EL?

 

[Haywain]

What about journeys from a NR station to a LU zone or zones? E.g. Slough to Camden Town? Do you have to get a Priv ticket to Paddington and then pay full price on the tube, or can you get a through ticket to LU Zones 1-2?

Tickets to/from London Underground destinations are not valid for New Entrant priv discounts. The combination you suggest would be required.

 

[Sleepy]

So solely underground journeys are out and cross-London (aka Maltese Cross) tickets are in.

What about journeys from a NR station to a LU zone or zones? E.g. Slough to Camden Town? Do you have to get a Priv ticket to Paddington and then pay full price on the tube, or can you get a through ticket to LU Zones 1-2?

What about the Elizabeth Line? Are you allowed to get a Priv ticket Slough to Tottenham Court Road, for example? And if so, would it have to be issued to LU Zones 1-2? In which case, although that ticket would normally be valid to any LU station in those zones, would you be required by Priv rules to stick to the EL?

Special PRIV rate ticket paper is available for use on Elisabeth line ONLY (ie not tube) for journeys such as Liverpool St. or Abbey Wood to Paddington (LST to 0792 for £1.65) It is available to buy on RST site now too.