Derby Resignalling - 22 July - 7 October 2018

[edwin_m]

Parallel moves in opposite directions are possible at the north end for London trains (arriving P6, departing P5) and for XC trains (arriving P2, departing P1). As the line north of the station only has one track for each direction there's not really a need for same-direction parallel moves. P3 and P4 can be used for either London or XC trains if the respective pairs of platforms are closed, but this will be at quiet times such as Sunday mornings. To my mind the main defect of the layout is that Birmingham-Nottingham trains require P3 and P4 an their connecting tracks, otherwise they have to shunt out to the north and come back through the station. This is probably symptomatic of the way the industry treats the service between the two largest cities in the Midlands.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

I've never understood the benefit of same direction parallel moves on departures from stations where the line ahead quickly reverts back to 2 track. One train will have to slow to let the other race ahead. Reduced platform occupancy perhaps?

At Derby it will be four track to the north but after about 1 mile there will be a 60mph crossover from the Down Goods to the Up Main and then a following crossover from the Up Main onto Down Main.

So a train can depart north bound on Platform 1 on the Down Main at the same time as one from Platform 3, 4 or 5(new numbers) which will take them up the Down Goods.

With regards to maintenance of platforms 3 and 4, with the scissors crossover to the immediate south of the platform rather than shutting both lines one could have one platform open and the other closed.

 

[edwin_m]

With regards to maintenance of platforms 3 and 4, with the scissors crossover to the immediate south of the platform rather than shutting both lines one could have one platform open and the other closed.

Not while you're maintaining the scissors crossover though...

 

[Spartacus]

I've never understood the benefit of same direction parallel moves on departures from stations where the line ahead quickly reverts back to 2 track. One train will have to slow to let the other race ahead. Reduced platform occupancy perhaps?

That's it, at Sheffield a train will often be departed South then held, or put into Heeley loop, before being held for a late runner to free up a station platform.

 

[takno]

Seems a very restrictive layout at its north end. No parallel moves between 3,4 and 5 nor between 6 and 7. It also looks like only a pair of lines can be maintained at its southern end at any one time, Platforms 1 and 2, 3 to 5 or 6 and 7.

Given the reduction in pointwork at the southern end the maintenance requirements should be much lighter. How often do you see maintenance happening on the platforms or the throat while part of the station is open anyway?

 

[DanTrain]

Presumably, with XC trains waiting for 15 mins at Chesterfield, platform 3 will be seeing some use, as I can't imagine them fitting that wait in otherwise?

 

[edwin_m]

Given the reduction in pointwork at the southern end the maintenance requirements should be much lighter. How often do you see maintenance happening on the platforms or the throat while part of the station is open anyway?

Quite often, and Network Rail tries to take this into account when designing station layouts. Rugby for example was advertised as being able to be operated at less busy times with half the station closed. I used to see one platform under possession at Nottingham quite frequently if I was there between the peaks, though now I think about it I don't recall seeing that since the re-modelling.

 

[martinr1]

Here is Derby on Friday 23rd February - who would have thought a Class 50 would be pressed into service for Cross Country route learning!

 

[Mugby]

I understand that the route learning which is currently taking place includes Mansfield and the Robin Hood line.

Could someone tell me how this is relevant to the Derby Resignalling blockade?

 

[satisnek]

The new layout at the north end appears to be quite functional if you trace out the various routes, but it looks a complete mess! Presumably there are geographical or other constraints as to why it's like this?

 

[lammergeier]

I understand that the route learning which is currently taking place includes Mansfield and the Robin Hood line.

Could someone tell me how this is relevant to the Derby Resignalling blockade?

XC are not learning Mansfield as far as I know.

 

[LowLevel]

I understand that the route learning which is currently taking place includes Mansfield and the Robin Hood line.

Could someone tell me how this is relevant to the Derby Resignalling blockade?

It doesn't particularly. It's a convenient way of getting more drivers trained up on the Robin Hood line diversion via Pinxton in the hours of daylight while they happen to have the locomotive spare and available. Usually they use a 153 for that sort of thing but any kind of unit is at a premium at present. They have the loco on hire so may as well be using it.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

The new layout at the north end appears to be quite functional if you trace out the various routes, but it looks a complete mess! Presumably there are geographical or other constraints as to why it's like this?

Which bits in particular are a mess? May be able to clarify a few things. Schematics often make schemes look a bit of a dog's breakfast....

I think there was a half-hearted attempt at making it electrification-proof so some lines shift around a bit to get under Mansfield Road and Alfreton road bridges in the middle of the spans.

 

[satisnek]

Which bits in particular are a mess? May be able to clarify a few things. Schematics often make schemes look a bit of a dog's breakfast....

I think there was a half-hearted attempt at making it electrification-proof so some lines shift around a bit to get under Mansfield Road and Alfreton road bridges in the middle of the spans.

That would explain it, also I guess that the positions of the underline bridges would preclude the arrangement of neatly ordered tracks as there are at the south end?

 

[lammy]

As a slight aside, East Midlands Trains have started issuing publicity for the Derby closure (they were giving out special ticket wallets at East Midlands Parkway last week). However, the publicity features the URL "dby2018.co.uk", which doesn't work. "www.dby2018.co.uk" works fine, but that's not what they've printed. The domain is registered to Stagecoach Group plc and therefore the fault is entirely with them. Not that I'd expect any better from East Midlands Trains, despite this forum's general rose-tinted opinion of the company.

I'm sure I don't need to explain that the majority of websites (including this one) are accessible with or without the "www." prefix and not setting up the necessary redirect is considered a rather amateurish mistake and pretty fundamental when you're printing publicity materials that omit it. Somebody had to have noticed this before I did...

This may read like a bad joke but I've just been handed a leaflet on board a CrossCountry train which lists the website URL as "www.www.derby2018.co.uk", which, needless to say, doesn't work.

 

[Class 170101]

Take the 1st three www out.

 

[martinr1]

Here is the situation on Wednesday 14th March:-

 

[MarkyT]

Which bits in particular are a mess? May be able to clarify a few things. Schematics often make schemes look a bit of a dog's breakfast....

Here's one possible interpretation of the north end final layout schematic. A lot of distance is compressed into a short space at that end of the Rail Engineer diagram and it's not obvious which junction individual turnouts are situated at. There are some problems with the existing schematic as well: the existing long ladder at St. Mary's North Jn is erroneously drawn as if its a long diamond crossing.
http://www.townend.me/files/derby2018north.pdf

 

[satisnek]

Here's one possible interpretation of the north end final layout schematic. A lot of distance is compressed into a short space at that end of the Rail Engineer diagram and it's not obvious which junction individual turnouts are situated at. There are some problems with the existing schematic as well: the existing long ladder at St. Mary's North Jn is erroneously drawn as if its a long diamond crossing.
http://www.townend.me/files/derby2018north.pdf

That makes a lot more sense - cheers!

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Drawings for the revised platforms/buildings can be found on he Derby City website at:

https://eplanning.derby.gov.uk/onli...=externalDocuments&keyVal=_DERBY_DCAPR_101083

Regarding some of the questions raised, it does look as if the existing footbridge extension is to be retained; however, TWO lifts between it and the new platform are show.

Platform 7: this will be built - and then fenced off so it can't be used! This seems a bit strange to me, as - although of limited use during normal operational hours - it could reduce empty stock movements considerably; as the track layout shown on the drawings deposited with Derby City Council suggest trains could terminate in a platform 7 and then move directly to Etches Park in the evening (reverse in the morning), does anyone know why this isn't happening?

One of the drawings (132532-JAC-CV-DRG-000003) is of the existing layout, and it is endorsed that it is to be read in conjunction with a number of others, including drg: 132532-JAC-CV-DRG 000007; apparently, this shows how passive provision will be provided to enable platforms 1 and 2 to be extended to 400m, but a copy of it isn't available on the city's website. My first thought was that this extension is connected with HS2; but if it is, how could a HS2 train use either platform 1 or 2 under present plans?

 

[hexagon789]

Here is Derby on Friday 23rd February - who would have thought a Class 50 would be pressed into service for Cross Country route learning!

Nice! Quite like a good Hover now and again.

 

[MarkyT]

Platform 7: this will be built - and then fenced off so it can't be used! This seems a bit strange to me, as - although of limited use during normal operational hours - it could reduce empty stock movements considerably; as the track layout shown on the drawings deposited with Derby City Council suggest trains could terminate in a platform 7 and then move directly to Etches Park in the evening (reverse in the morning), does anyone know why this isn't happening?

The 'pilot line' that passes alongside the potential future platform #7 face won't be suitable for passenger traffic because there are no trap points where other sidings and freight lines join it. These could be added in a future project if an additional platform is needed.

 

[edwin_m]

The two lifts may be something to do with the subway not serving platform 6. If one of the existing non-duplicated lifts fails then PRM access is still possible via the subway.

 

[martinr1]

The situation on Saturday 24th March

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Paid a visit to Derby station at lunch time on Monday, 26th March.

Since the video was taken by martinr1 on Saturday, the steel frames for the two lift towers have been erected, together with some of the tubular columns which will support the walkways between them, the stairs, and the existing footbridge; a trailer loaded with more columns was in a compound. The barrier line has been moved closer to the Pride Park entrance - the lifts/stairs to the new platform are more or less in line with the barrier's former location.

Apart from where there are gaps adjacent to the two haul roads, the platform walls are complete, and in-filling with hardcore has commenced. The shape of the new platform differs slightly from the plans deposited with Derby City Council; the face of "platform 7" seems to approximately match he length of the canopies, and recesses have been constructed at either end. These are not shown on the plans which can be viewed on the city's website.

I don't know if it's an optical illusion, but when the new platform is viewed from the overbridge what I presume are the bases for the columns which will support the canopies seem to be very close to the platform edges; by observation, there seems to be insufficient space for people with luggage to walk platform-edge side of the columns without coming into contact with the tactile strips I expect will be put in place.

It's not very clear from what I could see, but it does look as if the new signal controlling the northern exit from the 'pilot line' has been allocated the number DY459; I THINK this was also carried by the signal it replaced, controlling the northern connection to Etches Park depot.

 

[louis97]

It's not very clear from what I could see, but it does look as if the new signal controlling the northern exit from the 'pilot line' has been allocated the number DY459; I THINK this was also carried by the signal it replaced, controlling the northern connection to Etches Park depot.

This was the number of the signal it replaced, however note this number is not final. This signal will become the signal protecting the north exit from the Fuel and Inspection Line and will be numbered EC5489. The pilot line will run along the back of the new platform with a signal numbered EC5487 at the north end.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

The shape of the new platform differs slightly from the plans deposited with Derby City Council; the face of "platform 7" seems to approximately match he length of the canopies, and recesses have been constructed at either end. These are not shown on the plans which can be viewed on the city's website.

At each end of "platform" 7 there is a turnout which, due to tight radii, would require a large gap between platform and train. In addition, there would be no need to have a facing platform to match the length of the new platform 6 (no operational need and the positions of new signals will constrain the usable length of platform) The notches were created so as to provide a place of safety.

I don't know if it's an optical illusion, but when the new platform is viewed from the overbridge what I presume are the bases for the columns which will support the canopies seem to be very close to the platform edges; by observation, there seems to be insufficient space for people with luggage to walk platform-edge side of the columns without coming into contact with the tactile strips I expect will be put in place.

The columns will be 2.5m from the platform edge - There will be 100mm for the coper edge to overhang too. The columns are only 300 odd mm.

 

[martinr1]

The scene on Good Friday

 

[martinr1]

The scene on Friday 6th April

 

[civ-eng-jim]

Some photos of the pre-partial closure works on the Up and Down Goods West lines. First photo looking North from Osmaston Road, second looking south.

Not the juiciest photos, from a p-way perspective, but a darn sight better than the semi-composted track before!