Derby to Crewe EMT services

[Mitchell Hurd]

To be honest, if only that route was worked by t least 90mph 158's all the time, then there's no reason why seat reservations can't be introduced. The gaps between some stops are around 15 minutes.

Next time I go on the Derby to Crewe route, I might get off at the station where the castle-shaped pub is virtually nearby.

 

[Deafdoggie]

To be honest, if only that route was worked by t least 90mph 158's all the time, then there's no reason why seat reservations can't be introduced. The gaps between some stops are around 15 minutes.

Next time I go on the Derby to Crewe route, I might get off at the station where the castle-shaped pub is virtually nearby.

Turnround time at Crewe is quite tight so doing reservations would be tricky. Can't just think of the pub!

 

[70014IronDuke]

I do wonder whether it had a more prestigious status in BR days (and quite possibly LMS days before that) because of the number of BR staff and particularly management who might have needed to use the service on a daily basis if they were based in Derby but had meetings in Crewe or vice versa.

Yup, I'm sure that had a role in the choice of stock - certainly thought so at the time. And the Matlock line to boot. Skeggie folks had the luxury as an unexpected by-product

But having said that, it was an important link, not for Crewe/Stoke as such, but for further onward travel. (and v v to Derby and Notts, of course).

 

[NoOnesFool]

To be honest, if only that route was worked by t least 90mph 158's all the time, then there's no reason why seat reservations can't be introduced. The gaps between some stops are around 15 minutes.

Next time I go on the Derby to Crewe route, I might get off at the station where the castle-shaped pub is virtually nearby.

That's a non-starter. The 158s are much needed for express inter-city services from Norwich to Liverpool. Putting a long-distance DMU on a relatively short service to Crewe just doesn't make logic.

 

[cle]

This line does seem to be quite an under-used asset. There are no services between Derby and Manchester/Liverpool, for instance. Or up the WCML.

In the absence of a Rio from St Pancras, and Hope Valley issues (I love the idea, but understand reasons why it isn't happening) - might this be an interesting way to do Nottingham or Leicester to Manchester? I'd say Preston/Liverpool, but Manchester is more favourable in terms of Crewe conflicts. Also you could route directly up from Stoke too.

Aware that Nottingham - Manchester exists today, but this would offer up new journey pairs and would be quicker than the Sheffield reverse and Hope Valley routing, especially with a non-stop Derby-Stoke run although Uttoxeter might be worth including.

 

[krus_aragon]

That's a non-starter. The 158s are much needed for express inter-city services from Norwich to Liverpool. Putting a long-distance DMU on a relatively short service to Crewe just doesn't make logic.

You can have our 158s in three or four years, if you'd like.

 

[edwin_m]

This line does seem to be quite an under-used asset. There are no services between Derby and Manchester/Liverpool, for instance. Or up the WCML.

In the absence of a Rio from St Pancras, and Hope Valley issues (I love the idea, but understand reasons why it isn't happening) - might this be an interesting way to do Nottingham or Leicester to Manchester? I'd say Preston/Liverpool, but Manchester is more favourable in terms of Crewe conflicts. Also you could route directly up from Stoke too.

Aware that Nottingham - Manchester exists today, but this would offer up new journey pairs and would be quicker than the Sheffield reverse and Hope Valley routing, especially with a non-stop Derby-Stoke run although Uttoxeter might be worth including.

The problems are the layout at Crewe (plenty of bays for Derby terminators but only two through platforms towards Manchester) and capacity on the double track lines. Crewe Hub might cure the first one, and perhaps HS2 would release some capacity. But I think the main objective would be Manchester Airport given its poor service southwards and the difficulties getting further north. I'm not sure either if Nottingham-Manchester via Crewe would be any quicker than via Sheffield.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The problems are the layout at Crewe (plenty of bays for Derby terminators but only two through platforms towards Manchester) and capacity on the double track lines. Crewe Hub might cure the first one, and perhaps HS2 would release some capacity. But I think the main objective would be Manchester Airport given its poor service southwards and the difficulties getting further north. I'm not sure either if Nottingham-Manchester via Crewe would be any quicker than via Sheffield.

Just to be pedantic, there are three through platforms at Crewe for Manchester, 1, 5 and 6. Yes, 6 would be useless as it would mean crossing all 4 West Coast running lines twice, but it is still a through platform!

 

[Mugby]

What is the maximum linespeed between Derby and Crewe, excluding the main line sections?

I remember in BR days, if an old DMU failed and they put a Class 47 on the front, the service would need to wait several minutes at most stations because it had arrived early.

 

[43055]

What is the maximum linespeed between Derby and Crewe, excluding the main line sections?

I remember in BR days, if an old DMU failed and they put a Class 47 on the front, the service would need to wait several minutes at most stations because it had arrived early.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure its around 70-75 most of the way on the north staffs. Uttoxeter has a restriction through the station but I don't know the limit.

 

[SoccerHQ]

The 12:07 Crewe-Derby was a double 153 on Saturday.
I have also seen it be a 156 before on a Saturday.

Usually when the races are on. There were issues a few years back regarding getting people on the train.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

What is the maximum linespeed between Derby and Crewe, excluding the main line sections?

I remember in BR days, if an old DMU failed and they put a Class 47 on the front, the service would need to wait several minutes at most stations because it had arrived early.

Trains often arrive at intermediate stations early now when a 153 is substituted by a 158, and especially by a Meridian. Times have gradually been extended over the years as the elastic band powering the 153s gets slacker.

 

[Hairy Bear]

They have to supplemented by the Drivers pedalling! .

 

[Qwerty133]

Trains often arrive at intermediate stations early now when a 153 is substituted by a 158, and especially by a Meridian. Times have gradually been extended over the years as the elastic band powering the 153s gets slacker.

I've certainly heard rumours that some of the 153s regularly fail to get above 60mph.

 

[Chester1]

That's a non-starter. The 158s are much needed for express inter-city services from Norwich to Liverpool. Putting a long-distance DMU on a relatively short service to Crewe just doesn't make logic.

Liverpool-Nottingham is due to be transferred to TPE (or possibly Northern) in December 2021. The consultation document seems to indicate that any extensions from Nottingham or merging with other services will be at the descretion of bidders. I would like to see the next franchise holder lease the 24 x 158s going off lease in Wales to replace the 21 x 153 and 15 x 156s. After cutting out Liverpool-Nottingham it would be equivalent to a small increase in units and a significant improvement for Crewe-Derby. It would mean just three fleets - 158s (refurbished to the same standard), Corby EMUs and MML bi modes.

 

[GW43125]

A 222 was out on a Derby-Crewe diagram this morning covering for a 153.

 

[sd0733]

A 222 was out on a Derby-Crewe diagram this morning covering for a 153.

Yes the 153 for 6:58crewe to derby failed at Crewe, a 15x which was to be the 7:40 went ecs to stoke to pick up for the failure and a 222 substituted the second unit.

 

[onlinespotting]

It was a 222 yesterday morning 0833 at stoke from crewe in the direction of derby

 

[Deafdoggie]

Anyone know what happened in Tutbury at 18:03 today? Train stayed there for 20 mins. Eventually Terminated short at SOT, then ECS to DBY. 19:07 CRE-DBY cancelled throughout. RTT says “problem with train Crew” I know someone who was on the train, they said no announcements made at all, till just outside SOT, then just that it was terminating there. They were curious to know what what happened.

 

[vlad]

The train didn't stop at Peartree when it should have. It's possible therefore that the delay was waiting for the driver to be horsewhipped.

 

[Bevan Price]

But did the road improve because the train service declined? Or did the train service decline because the road improved?

I don't know how passenger numbers have altered, I suspect not that much, but instead of spreading everyone over two coaches of a train, they are now more cosy in one coach. Certainly the London trains have helped ease the situation between Crewe and Stoke (apart from Longport) It is one of those situations where everyone is agreed that longer trains and more trains are needed. It is just none of those feel they should be the ones to pay for it!

I suspect that EMT introducing car parking fees at unstaffed stations has not improved passenger figures, and also some people tired of being unable to board over-full single 153s may also have given up rail travel. On my few trips per year, mostly on saturdays, there seem to be fewer passengers boarding at Blythe Bridge, Uttoxeter or Tutbury & Hatton than I remember in the past.

 

[A0wen]

But did the road improve because the train service declined? Or did the train service decline because the road improved?

I don't know how passenger numbers have altered, I suspect not that much, but instead of spreading everyone over two coaches of a train, they are now more cosy in one coach. Certainly the London trains have helped ease the situation between Crewe and Stoke (apart from Longport) It is one of those situations where everyone is agreed that longer trains and more trains are needed. It is just none of those feel they should be the ones to pay for it!

The road was improved in the late 90s for a number of reasons - partly to take the strain off the M6 further down by allowing traffic a quicker route to the M1 from the M6 in the Stoke area.

The Derby - Crewe service in its own right doesn't really have great traffic potential - Stoke station only serves a small area of the wider 'Stoke on Trent' area, Crewe is usually a destination to access other, long distance services. Between Stoke and Derby there isn't anywhere significant served.

Do people from Stoke want to go to Derby or vice versa? Probably not.

If you're heading from Stoke you're more likely to head to Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham, whereas with Derby you're more likely to head for Nottingham, Leicester or Sheffield.

Trying to use this route to 'join the dots' i.e. Liverpool - Nottingham is never going to fly - the contentions for paths at places like Crewe means without a lot of work, its not going to be viable.

 

[InOban]

At least until HS2 arrives, if it ever does. I've been following this thread for old times sake, as 40+ years ago my wife and I were users, since she came from Derby and we lived in Glasgow. It was a busy little train then, and I am surprised that it seems to have become poorer over the years. How good are the connections with the Birmingham to Scotland services? I would have thought that an extension to Nottingham would be obvious, but the biggest needis for Stoke to get out of the economic doldrums.

 

[A0wen]

At least until HS2 arrives, if it ever does. I've been following this thread for old times sake, as 40+ years ago my wife and I were users, since she came from Derby and we lived in Glasgow. It was a busy little train then, and I am surprised that it seems to have become poorer over the years. How good are the connections with the Birmingham to Scotland services? I would have thought that an extension to Nottingham would be obvious, but the biggest needis for Stoke to get out of the economic doldrums.

Don't forget though to do the journey you were doing all those years ago can be done without having to change trains, by using XC from Derby - Glasgow.

I'm not sure on the value of extending it to Nottingham. IIRC the service was 'broken' at Derby because if there were delays earlier in the journey it caused much bigger problems when it got near Stoke - which is alot busier now than it was 20 years ago.

 

[InOban]

We would be using the London train, which then called at Crewe, and had a good connection with the Derby, assuming the london was on time. It was the days of double-headed class 50s, so the chances of actually having two engines was quite low.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Well, my simple question has led to an interesting debate. I'll be doing the line from Crewe to Stoke one day next week. I'll pass comment afterwards.

 

[vlad]

Well, my simple question has led to an interesting debate. I'll be doing the line from Crewe to Stoke one day next week. I'll pass comment afterwards.

There's no real need to travel with EMT from Crewe to Stoke as the LNR service leaves Crewe 5 minutes earlier. Unless of course you'd prefer a 153 to a 350.

 

[6Gman]

I do wonder whether it had a more prestigious status in BR days (and quite possibly LMS days before that) because of the number of BR staff and particularly management who might have needed to use the service on a daily basis if they were based in Derby but had meetings in Crewe or vice versa.

Not just for meetings. When LMR train planning was centralised at Crewe (c.1968?) a lot of staff transferred from Derby (and Manchester) and commuted daily.

 

[6Gman]

There's no real need to travel with EMT from Crewe to Stoke as the LNR service leaves Crewe 5 minutes earlier. Unless of course you'd prefer a 153 to a 350.

Or catch the LM to Alsager/Kidsgrove then drop back onto the EM.

 

[Mugby]

The train didn't stop at Peartree when it should have. It's possible therefore that the delay was waiting for the driver to be horsewhipped.

Would inadvertently missing a station which is only served a couple of times per day result in a train being terminated sort and it's return working cancelled?

I'm interested because I use the 1907 ex- Crewe sometimes. I travel from Manchester on the 1835 VTWC service to Stoke and pick up the EMT connection to Derby at 1933.
I've been in that situation before, when the 1933 Derby has been cancelled and it's absolutely soul destroying to know there's almost a two hour wait for the last train at 2119, especially at a place like Stoke!