Did BR ever run service trains with the specific intention of appealing to enthusiasts?

[Richard Scott]

My apologies, I totally missed that. Interesting that not just a no-heat 47 but one with slow-speed control as well, can't have been too common.

Had many 47/3s on passenger. Not massively rare even into the 1990s. Remember having 47363 out of Exeter on air-con mark 2s in 1991. Think almost all 47/3s slow speed fitted?

 

[hexagon789]

Had many 47/3s on passenger. Not massively rare even into the 1990s. Remember having 47363 out of Exeter on air-con mark 2s in 1991. Think almost all 47/3s slow speed fitted?

Ah, I thought it was only a handful rather than a full subclass. ISTR the prototypes for it were nicknamed Pinky and Perky and gained some form of flashing beacons as well.

 

[Richard Scott]

Ah, I thought it was only a handful rather than a full subclass. ISTR the prototypes for it were nicknamed Pinky and Perky and gained some form of flashing beacons as well.

I believe those two were remote control fitted, maybe someone with more knowledge of 47s than me can confirm? My 1988 book has all 47/3s as slow speed fitted.

 

[CW2]

Re-reading my Middleton's St Pancras to Barking it has pics of the Goblin service in 1999 run by a 33/1 with a 3TC. Wish I'd seen that.

I had 33103 on the 3TC set 18:08 Barking to Gospel Oak 25/08/99, after work in London. I think the turn only lasted a few days. A very odd choice of traction, but it worked.

 

[hexagon789]

I believe those two were remote control fitted, maybe someone with more knowledge of 47s than me can confirm? My 1988 book has all 47/3s as slow speed fitted.

For some reason I got it in my head only 37s were so treated and 47s were more random.

370 and 379 seem to have been equipped with a system of multiple control hence the Pinky and Perky monikers

 

[John Hunt]

Maybe not with intention of drawing enthusiasts, but it did draw quite a few; double headed 45/1s on a Sunday afternoon Sheffield to Pancras in the twilight days of the 45s on the MML.

 

[D1537]

For some reason I got it in my head only 37s were so treated and 47s were more random.

370 and 379 seem to have been equipped with a system of multiple control hence the Pinky and Perky monikers

I believe those two were remote control fitted, maybe someone with more knowledge of 47s than me can confirm? My 1988 book has all 47/3s as slow speed fitted.

Common misconception, this

47370 and 47379 had multiple unit gear fitted, again later removed. These were Pinky and Perky.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2020_04/47379.JPG.6463424c7bf0e85afad433f31218ff74.JPG

The remote control fitted locos were 47277 and 47373. They had the orange flashing light fitted to the cab which operated when under remote control.

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56074 was also so fitted.

http://www.class56.co.uk/picture/56074-yk-130380.jpg

47277's lamp was removed in around 1983, but 373's remained until an overhaul in early 1989, when it was plated over.

Here it is still fitted in 1988, when it was allocated to the Nuneaton-Skegness (M-F) and Manchester-Yarmouth (SO) for most of the summer!

http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=1108051156200

As for slow speed, many 47s were so fitted, including all of the 47/3s. Many 47/0s were also fitted, including some which also had boilers and were true all-rounders. Some were later converted to 47/4s at which point the SSC was removed.

I believe the list of 47/0s so fitted goes approximately something like

47164-47205
47212-47243
47275-47298 (299 after 216 was renumbered)

although that's from memory.

 

[hexagon789]

Common misconception, this

47370 and 47379 had multiple unit gear fitted, again later removed. These were Pinky and Perky.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2020_04/47379.JPG.6463424c7bf0e85afad433f31218ff74.JPG

The remote control fitted locos were 47277 and 47373. They had the orange flashing light fitted to the cab which operated when under remote control.

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Account Suspended

56074 was also so fitted.

http://www.class56.co.uk/picture/56074-yk-130380.jpg

47277's lamp was removed in around 1983, but 373's remained until an overhaul in early 1989, when it was plated over.

Here it is still fitted in 1988, when it was allocated to the Nuneaton-Skegness (M-F) and Manchester-Yarmouth (SO) for most of the summer!

http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=1108051156200

As for slow speed, many 47s were so fitted, including all of the 47/3s. Many 47/0s were also fitted, including some which also had boilers and were true all-rounders. Some were later converted to 47/4s at which point the SSC was removed.

I believe the list of 47/0s so fitted goes approximately something like

47168-47205
47212-47243
47275-47298 (299 after 216 was renumbered)

although that's from memory.

So no beacons on Pinky and Perky, they were on the remote control fitted pair?

Interesting that only boiler 47s got SSC, no ETH ones given that I believe 37/4s did get SSC I think.

 

[D1537]

Interesting that only boiler 47s got SSC, no ETH ones given that I believe 37/4s did get SSC I think.

The first 20 Class 47s were built with ETH in 1962-63, but it was rarely used (they were dual heat locos with boilers, and steam heated stock was far more common) and so no more were fitted with it new until the last two 47s built, D1960 and D1961 in 1968. Every other 47 was boiler-fitted apart from the 81 no-heat locos that would later become Class 47/3. Therefore, no 47s were built with both ETH and SSC, although around 100 were built with boilers and SSC (see the list in the above post).

132 more 47s were retro-fitted with ETH in the early 1970s, so that when TOPS came in, there were 154 47/4s, numbered from 47401-47555 (there was no 47548, long story). None of the 132 that were converted to ETH were slow speed locos, as this was still a useful requirement and so they remained freight locos.

However, by the late 70s the requirements for SSC fitted 47s were dropping, mainly due to the introduction of the Class 56s. A number of boilered SSC locos were transferred away from their Yorkshire and North-East depots to places like Stratford where they effectively became passenger locos. So when the move from steam heating to ETH gained speed, and a new batch (47556-47585) was converted to ETH, many of these locos were included (47169 being the first in 1979). Since these were meant to be purely passenger locos, the SSC and the boiler were both removed.

When the next batch of ETH conversions came about in 1983, again a number of boilered SSC fitted locos that had been transferred away from the depots that supplied MGR trains were converted. Eventually the whole batch of 22 locos from 47164 to 47185 were converted, but the other batches were untouched. However five more, 47232/239/240/242/243, were converted to twin-tank 47/4s in 1986.

37/4s did not have slow speed control (some of the 37/9s did when rebuilt). I believe the only locomotives built with both SSC and ETH were the Class 50s, although the SSC was rarely used and was removed when they were refurbished in the late 70s. The 33/2s were fitted with SSC in the late 60s, making them the only BR type to have ETH and SSC for any length of time.

 

[hexagon789]

The first 20 Class 47s were built with ETH in 1962-63, but it was rarely used (they were dual heat locos with boilers, and steam heated stock was far more common) and so no more were fitted with it new until the last two 47s built, D1960 and D1961 in 1968. Every other 47 was boiler-fitted apart from the 81 no-heat locos that would later become Class 47/3. Therefore, no 47s were built with both ETH and SSC, although around 100 were built with boilers and SSC (see the list in the above post).

132 more 47s were retro-fitted with ETH in the early 1970s, so that when TOPS came in, there were 154 47/4s, numbered from 47401-47555 (there was no 47548, long story). None of the 132 that were converted to ETH were slow speed locos, as this was still a useful requirement and so they remained freight locos.

However, by the late 70s the requirements for SSC fitted 47s were dropping, mainly due to the introduction of the Class 56s. A number of boilered SSC locos were transferred away from their Yorkshire and North-East depots to places like Stratford where they effectively became passenger locos. So when the move from steam heating to ETH gained speed, and a new batch (47556-47585) was converted to ETH, many of these locos were included (47169 being the first in 1979). Since these were meant to be purely passenger locos, the SSC and the boiler were both removed.

When the next batch of ETH conversions came about in 1983, again a number of boilered SSC fitted locos that had been transferred away from the depots that supplied MGR trains were converted. Eventually the whole batch of 22 locos from 47164 to 47185 were converted, but the other batches were untouched. However five more, 47232/239/240/242/243, were converted to twin-tank 47/4s in 1986.

37/4s did not have slow speed control (some of the 37/9s did when rebuilt). I believe the only locomotives built with both SSC and ETH were the Class 50s, although the SSC was rarely used and was removed when they were refurbished in the late 70s. The 33/2s were fitted with SSC in the late 60s, making them the only BR type to have ETH and SSC for any length of time.

There also seemed to be a reluctance among the Western and Eastern to use electric heating. The ER held off for a year testing out coach mounted gensets because it was concerned that the loss of a further 300hp would hamper abilities to maintain schedules.

They ended up just dropping a coach from most carriage sets to compensate.

 

[Crewe Exile]

The manipulated/manufactured use of special traction was the end of bashing!!. The S & C pilot traction was successful in attracting extra passengers. Seem to remember it initially operated for 4 weeks out and back from Leeds. (I’m sure the Keighley and Worth Valley held a diesel gala on at least one of the Saturdays there was special traction piloting) - at the time I’m sure I read that the return incoming service to Leeds when a particular rare pair of class 20s were piloting had in excess of 1000 passengers on board.
The S & C pilots were repeated with special pilots operating services commencing from both Carlisle and Leeds. The Carlisle departure was extremely early but still pulled in 100s of bashers. (Looking back some crazy behaviour to nab new traction!)
However, the success of these pilots triggered all sorts of staged traction events - Midland Main Line event, North Wales Coast event, Gloucester Rail Day specials and also the Weymouth specials that operated on a Sunday for a month of 2 - culminating in an additional working after the special returned to Waterloo. I’m sure there was a whisper at the time that someone in the scheduling department got a rollicking for authorising a light engine movement from Totan to work one of the Weymouth specials.
As I tongue in cheek declared at the head of my input, such workings changed if not ended bashing - a lot of bashers at the time didn’t like the structured approach to locos appearing on trains. Part of the appeal (crazy as it might seem) was the ‘chase’ of obtaining a loco rather than a ‘fix’ which started to become the norm.

 

[Richard Scott]

The manipulated/manufactured use of special traction was the end of bashing!!. The S & C pilot traction was successful in attracting extra passengers. Seem to remember it initially operated for 4 weeks out and back from Leeds. (I’m sure the Keighley and Worth Valley held a diesel gala on at least one of the Saturdays there was special traction piloting) - at the time I’m sure I read that the return incoming service to Leeds when a particular rare pair of class 20s were piloting had in excess of 1000 passengers on board.
The S & C pilots were repeated with special pilots operating services commencing from both Carlisle and Leeds. The Carlisle departure was extremely early but still pulled in 100s of bashers. (Looking back some crazy behaviour to nab new traction!)
However, the success of these pilots triggered all sorts of staged traction events - Midland Main Line event, North Wales Coast event, Gloucester Rail Day specials and also the Weymouth specials that operated on a Sunday for a month of 2 - culminating in an additional working after the special returned to Waterloo. I’m sure there was a whisper at the time that someone in the scheduling department got a rollicking for authorising a light engine movement from Totan to work one of the Weymouth specials.
As I tongue in cheek declared at the head of my input, such workings changed if not ended bashing - a lot of bashers at the time didn’t like the structured approach to locos appearing on trains. Part of the appeal (crazy as it might seem) was the ‘chase’ of obtaining a loco rather than a ‘fix’ which started to become the norm.

Problem was by this time rare traction was hard to get due to fewer loco hauled trains (in my opinion 1988 was the last really good year as a lot of loco hauled trains went to 155/156s by end of the year or during 1989) so only way to get anything different was to go with these trains with 'fixed' locos. Possibly also why people started to look abroad as lots on offer there, places like Hungary can still throw surprises now although certain countries just became hard work e.g. France.

 

[xotGD]

Part of the appeal (crazy as it might seem) was the ‘chase’ of obtaining a loco rather than a ‘fix’ which started to become the norm.

I agree. However, I think a lot more was fixed than the average basher realised. Those who worked in Control at the time would be able to shed more light.

 

[CW2]

I agree. However, I think a lot more was fixed than the average basher realised. Those who worked in Control at the time would be able to shed more light.

Ahem. You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment ...

 

[Southof1E]

The area manager at Salisbury arranged the Laverstockloopers on Saturdays in October 86. 09026 starred when i did the train with a TC as stock doing allthe bits of the Laverstock loop for a quid or so! The platforms were also well filled with trade stalls link to photo below..NR

..https://www.flickr.com/photos/79134428@N03/41258581934/in/photolist-25RT1YW

 

[Crewe Exile]

Problem was by this time rare traction was hard to get due to fewer loco hauled trains (in my opinion 1988 was the last really good year as a lot of loco hauled trains went to 155/156s by end of the year or during 1989) so only way to get anything different was to go with these trains with 'fixed' locos. Possibly also why people started to look abroad as lots on offer there, places like Hungary can still throw surprises now although certain countries just became hard work e.g. France.

Good points, I’d say the game pretty much changed in 1990 - until then there were frequent haulage opportunities around the UK. The ‘sprinterisation’ of many services changed a lot of things.

 

[Tetchytyke]

One of the last summers under BR (can't recall exactly when, but 1993 rings a bell) a pair of 101s were loaned from Manchester to Neville Hill specifically to run summer services on the Settle & Carlisle line. Think they just ran one out and back trip per day as a 4-car set to free up 156s for use elsewhere.

Anyone else remember this, or is it a false memory?

I remember the 101s, but I thought they predated the sprinters...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I remember the 101s, but I thought they predated the sprinters...

A few years earlier, when Sprinters and Pacers were slowly being rolled out, heritage units were semi-regulars round West Yorkshire. But the ones I'm thinking of were on loan from Manchester and in Regional Railways livery- something none of our old "native" units lasted long enough to see.