Did BR ever run service trains with the specific intention of appealing to enthusiasts?

[Peter Mugridge]

November 1989 also saw 56104 on 4/11/89 & 20061+093 on 25/11/89. Can’t remember which 56 worked 18/11/89.

It was 37 104 on 4th November.

18th November was 56 075.

 

[mmh]

The Vale of Rheidol?

 

[hexagon789]

I would say that using 20s was just a case of making use of freight locos that were spare at the weekend. Same thing with 47/3s on the Birmingham - Yarmouth, 37s on the Yarmouth - Newcastle, etc. Also the use of 58s on Birmingham - Nuneaton drags on Sundays.

Fair enough, more operational sense than for specifically providing 20s. Given it seemed a regular thing I presumed it was the former rather than latter reason but BR did seem to make quite some use of no-heat locos on summer only services

 

[65477]

This thread seems to have gone slightly. (although entertainingly) OT to include specials so I will include the Hymek farewell.

Regarding service trains that is normal timetable & normal fares various services used Ilford depots Cl306 emu over the years. I can recall Braintree & Harwich branches.

 

[CW2]

The WR London Division had a very active department running "Merrymaker" type trains, under a variety of titles. They offered "Holiday Preview" specials to take you to a seaside resort in late winter / early spring to help you decide if that was really where you wanted to book your summer holiday; traditional "Merrymakers" to specific tourist destinations; and of course the dreaded "Mystery Tours" which might be to several destinations on the same train.
Of note, they contrived to run a London to Plymouth "Merrymaker" on a Saturday that just "happened to coincide" with a Laira Open Day. Western hauled both ways, I recall.

 

[LowLevel]

Lots of examples of certain power controllers allocating special locomotives to service trains , supposedly the last green class 40 on the North Wales Coast line - the last 304 electrics on the newly wired Brum Cross City. No doubt many others.

One of our route controllers was the fleet controller for RR Central in the early 90s - one of his proudest achievements in 1992 or so due to a 158 shortage was hiring in class 58s from the freight sector to run on New Street to Stansted trains - loco and coaches as far as Cambridge, and a class 317 from NSE for the last leg to the Airport.

 

[Mag_seven]

Of note, they contrived to run a London to Plymouth "Merrymaker" on a Saturday that just "happened to coincide" with a Laira Open Day. Western hauled both ways, I recall.

I suspect that although BR marketed this (and other) "Merrymaker" services to appeal to the general public (the so called "normals") deep down they knew they would not fill them without some of the passengers being enthusiasts. It was a very clever "trick" that they played.

 

[xotGD]

Some great posts on this thread. I could have replied with the word 'Dreadful!' to at least 10!

I will now concede that I was wrong, and that on occasions enthusiasts were the target market of certain service trains.

I guess on other occasions enthusiasts have represented the majority of passengers on certain services. Especially when summer Saturday holiday traffic was on the decline but big traction was still being provided.

 

[Whistler40145]

How about the visit of 26001 & 26007 to Kyle of Lochalsh on Wednesdays in the summer of 1993

 

[ChiefPlanner]

One of our route controllers was the fleet controller for RR Central in the early 90s - one of his proudest achievements in 1992 or so due to a 158 shortage was hiring in class 58s from the freight sector to run on New Street to Stansted trains - loco and coaches as far as Cambridge, and a class 317 from NSE for the last leg to the Airport.

Excellent - a not that long ago retired manager , as a young man on the Kings Cross power desk put a Deltic onto the 21xx local to Hertford North (a set of non corridor coaches) - berth the stock and back light engine. The driver had no issues - the joys of a fully integrated railway with full competencies.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Some great posts on this thread. I could have replied with the word 'Dreadful!' to at least 10!

I will now concede that I was wrong, and that on occasions enthusiasts were the target market of certain service trains.

I guess on other occasions enthusiasts have represented the majority of passengers on certain services. Especially when summer Saturday holiday traffic was on the decline but big traction was still being provided.

The Cambrian with 37's in particular.

 

[Helvellyn]

The use of pilot locomotives on weekend S&C services during the Winter 1989/90 period was actually a very clever idea by what was still Provincial. 1990 would see Class 156s take over the services on the route, so as well as marking the end of loco-hauled services it was also a good way of generating revenue in the off-season where the loco-hauled services would have been very expensive to run. If I recall Carlisle Upperby even doubled up the Mark 2 sets used in the services normally due to the number of enthusiasts travelling.

It's a shame it wasn't looked at for some of the other routes that were heading over to Sprinter operation, e.g. Glasgow & South Western or the Marches Line.

 

[LowLevel]

Excellent - a not that long ago retired manager , as a young man on the Kings Cross power desk put a Deltic onto the 21xx local to Hertford North (a set of non corridor coaches) - berth the stock and back light engine. The driver had no issues - the joys of a fully integrated railway with full competencies.

That must have been fun to handle with the working characteristics of a Deltic

The closest we come nowadays is kicking out class 222s on stopping trains in times of shortage (I've spent that much time bouncing up and down on them between Lincoln and Leicester I could probably sign them myself with a bit of a briefing on the TMS) or the inverse a few years ago, a brave set of folks in the control and the right crew available kicking out a pair of 156s vice 222 on an evening peak Kettering - Sheffield on two occasions

 

[Iskra]

Do remember that too, 26001+26040, unfortunately someone left handbrake on 26001 so was failed (at Bolton, I think) and removed.

Weird that you mentioned that, I came across this video of that exact move the other day:

 

[Iskra]

Some great examples of special motive power on trains that would have been running anyway.

But I still don't think there were any services aimed primarily at enthusiasts. A 'timetabled railtour' as it were.

Even things like Merrymakers were aimed mainly at normals. Maybe one or two coaches of cranks on a 10 coach train.

Not BR, but the recent Northern services with Tornado would be the best example of this that I can think of.

 

[yorksrob]

I enjoyed the 2BIL/4SUB shuttle between Brighton and Seaford a few years back. That was definitely enthusiast orientated.

 

[Richard Scott]

The use of pilot locomotives on weekend S&C services during the Winter 1989/90 period was actually a very clever idea by what was still Provincial. 1990 would see Class 156s take over the services on the route, so as well as marking the end of loco-hauled services it was also a good way of generating revenue in the off-season where the loco-hauled services would have been very expensive to run. If I recall Carlisle Upperby even doubled up the Mark 2 sets used in the services normally due to the number of enthusiasts travelling.

It's a shame it wasn't looked at for some of the other routes that were heading over to Sprinter operation, e.g. Glasgow & South Western or the Marches Line.

Fairly sure something did happen on Marches line but not sure who organised it. Remember 37904 working and a 56 (think may have been 56011). Can't find the records but possibly late 1990 or 1991? May have just been a series of special trains and not regular service trains as think loco haulage probably gone by then?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

One of the last summers under BR (can't recall exactly when, but 1993 rings a bell) a pair of 101s were loaned from Manchester to Neville Hill specifically to run summer services on the Settle & Carlisle line. Think they just ran one out and back trip per day as a 4-car set to free up 156s for use elsewhere.

Anyone else remember this, or is it a false memory?

 

[30907]

One of the last summers under BR (can't recall exactly when, but 1993 rings a bell) a pair of 101s were loaned from Manchester to Neville Hill specifically to run summer services on the Settle & Carlisle line. Think they just ran one out and back trip per day as a 4-car set to free up 156s for use elsewhere.

Anyone else remember this, or is it a false memory?

I don't recall it, and my home at Cononley overlooked the line - but my desk faced the wall not the window, so it's not impossible. There was a dated extra (before the 0949 "fast" started) which might have had them, but the only time I used it was a 3-car Pacer

 

[pdeaves]

The Vale of Rheidol?

I'd say that was primarily aimed at 'nice day out' custom, not specifically enthusiast custom.

 

[Journeyman]

I enjoyed the 2BIL/4SUB shuttle between Brighton and Seaford a few years back. That was definitely enthusiast orientated.

I rode the SUB a couple of times, but never got a chance to sample the BIL before it was withdrawn from use.

 

[yorksrob]

I rode the SUB a couple of times, but never got a chance to sample the BIL before it was withdrawn from use.

Oh for the chance of something like that again. The 2BIL looks a bit forlorn nowadays tucked away at Shildon.

 

[Journeyman]

Oh for the chance of something like that again. The 2BIL looks a bit forlorn nowadays tucked away at Shildon.

Yeah, it's in a random corner and looks pretty neglected. Although the outside has been restored to decent nick, you can see graffiti inside through the windows. Very sad.

 

[yorksrob]

Yeah, it's in a random corner and looks pretty neglected. Although the outside has been restored to decent nick, you can see graffiti inside through the windows. Very sad.

It just needs a nice little run out on the juice from time to time !

 

[Bevan Price]

What about 20s to Skegness? Those were advertised trains albeit Summer Saturdays only iirc, unless the 20s were for operational reasons but seems unusual to me if that was the case

The 20s only started to be used regularly on Skegness trains when the previous traction (pairs of 25s) was being withdrawn. Pre-ETH stock, it was common practice to use suitable freight locos on passenger workings in summer. In the steam power era, I seem to recall it was policy not to use any steam heating in the summer months.

 

[70014IronDuke]

The 20s only started to be used regularly on Skegness trains when the previous traction (pairs of 25s) was being withdrawn. Pre-ETH stock, it was common practice to use suitable freight locos on passenger workings in summer. In the steam power era, I seem to recall it was policy not to use any steam heating in the summer months.

I expect you are referring to a different era, but I remember 2 x Cl 20s were certainly the norm on the Derby - Skeggy summer run in the early 1970s. I went on a train one day as part of footplate training. And with a rake of maroon Mk 1s, normally stored at Burton in the winter, IIRC.

 

[randyrippley]

The 20s only started to be used regularly on Skegness trains when the previous traction (pairs of 25s) was being withdrawn. Pre-ETH stock, it was common practice to use suitable freight locos on passenger workings in summer. In the steam power era, I seem to recall it was policy not to use any steam heating in the summer months.

Its reported somewhere on the web that the 20s were originally used on the Skeggy trains as emergency substitutes for pairs of 25s where one of the pair had failed. The story was that the 25s were in semi-permanent matched pairs of the same subclass and traction motor arrangement, and splitting them was too much of a hassle, so instead of substituting one of a pair with a class 20 (there being no spare 25s), a spare pair of 20s was used instead. Eventually this became a permanent feature when it was realised the class 20 pairs were less likely to break down - the substitutions had been so frequent that they happened more often than not
Can't remember where I read this - Derby Sulzers possibly???

 

[hexagon789]

The 20s only started to be used regularly on Skegness trains when the previous traction (pairs of 25s) was being withdrawn. Pre-ETH stock, it was common practice to use suitable freight locos on passenger workings in summer. In the steam power era, I seem to recall it was policy not to use any steam heating in the summer months.

Not sure about other regions but in Scotland the policy was no heating 1st April to 1st October iirc.

the use of freight locos seemed to continue until the early 1990s. There's a good video on YouTube of everything from 56s to 60s being used on North Wales Coast summer workings

 

[DarloRich]

There were various "network days" in the 80s/90's which seemed to put funny locos on passenger services. We never had that in the north east mind!

 

[Cowley]

Not sure about other regions but in Scotland the policy was no heating 1st April to 1st October iirc.

the use of freight locos seemed to continue until the early 1990s. There's a good video on YouTube of everything from 56s to 60s being used on North Wales Coast summer workings

When I was out and about from 1987 onwards there were all kinds of booked turns through summer (especially on Saturdays) that produced freight locos.
Down our way there were 3 jobs in 1988 that bought 47/0s and 47/3s to Paignton on out and back turns, plus booked pairs of 31/4s (I think borrowed from the parcels sector?) We also had the occasional Peak that made it through and I don’t think they had any booked passenger work by 1988.

Platform 5s Loco Hauled Travel was really useful if you didn’t have the ‘gen’. But also this was happening all over the country on a summer Saturday - pairs of 37/0s to the Cambrian Coast, 20s to Skegness, more no heat 47s and 31s to Yarmouth etc.
I remember owning this edition with what looks like a non heat 47 on the cover:


Do any of you clever types know where that photo was taken?

The front coaches of some of those trains felt every bit like a railtour...