Differences in rolling stock safety regulations in mainland Europe compared to UK

[rvdborgt]

European countries seem to tolerate graffiti much more, with windows often being completely covered in tags in Belgium, Germany and Italy. I'm glad that these are generally removed from service in the UK

You can't generally speak about "European countries" here. It varies a lot between operators. In Switzerland or the Netherlands for example, you won't see a lot of graffiti.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can't generally speak about "European countries" here. It varies a lot between operators. In Switzerland or the Netherlands for example, you won't see a lot of graffiti.

And in Germany it's regional to an extent - far more in northern and mid Germany than southern Germany.

 

[Richard Scott]

With regard to doors, it's worth noting that if the UK had adopted the RIC style folding door with its twofold safety features, blocking of the inside handle above 5km/h and autocloser, many "falling out of doors" deaths would have been avoided (and droplights would have gone away much sooner too, so quite a few people would still have had their heads attached). So it's not the UK that's always ahead on safety.

If Europe had adopted buckeye couplings instead of screw there would likely be many more Europeans still alive that wouldn't have been killed by concertina coaches in accidents. I can't believe that some Italian high speed trains are screw coupled and TGV power car are screwcoupled to coaches.
This is a much bigger issue than droplights; how many people have been killed through droplights? Remember still plenty of stock with droplights in Europe.

 

[DanielB]

In Switzerland or the Netherlands for example, you won't see a lot of graffiti.

In the Netherlands it is often already hard to see the actual livery of a train through all the dirt on the outside, so that obscures any graffity as well
Especially the case for NS, where even transparent windows are getting rare, the regional operators have much cleaner trains.

Any revised stock in the Netherlands is now being liveried using coloured foils, so graffity is easier removed as it involves replacing a bit of foil in the worst case (avoiding the need to use agressive cleaners which may permanently damage the paint)

 

[Bletchleyite]

If Europe had adopted buckeye couplings instead of screw there would likely be many more Europeans still alive that wouldn't have been killed by concertina coaches in accidents. I can't believe that some Italian high speed trains are screw coupled and TGV power car are screwcoupled to coaches.

68s are screw coupled to coaches here, too, as were most locos in the Mk2/3 days. Screw coupling between coaches has been abandoned in the UK, though.

This is a much bigger issue than droplights; how many people have been killed through droplights? Remember still plenty of stock with droplights in Europe.

They have a larger loading gauge - you would have to lean a LONG way out to whack your head.

 

[43096]

68s are screw coupled to coaches here, too, as were most locos in the Mk2/3 days. Screw coupling between coaches has been abandoned in the UK, though.

It's a question: what was the last screw-coupled (between passenger carrying vehicles) service train to run? First thought was the last first generation DMUs. For loco-hauled coaching stock it would be much longer ago, as all Mark 1/2/3 mainline stock has drophead buckeyes.

 

[Richard Scott]

68s are screw coupled to coaches here, too, as were most locos in the Mk2/3 days. Screw coupling between coaches has been abandoned in the UK, though

Locos are but not entire rakes as they are in Europe.

 

[paul_munich]

Show me just one single Dutch VIRM that hasn't been tagged over the windscreen...

 

[DanielB]

Show me just one single Dutch VIRM that hasn't been tagged over the windscreen...

That doesn't necessarily show it happens often: it just takes a long time to be removed.
When I'm not mistaken this is due to the location of these tags. They cannot be removed at sidings as cleaners would need to work too close to the live OHLE to do that.

 

[Planesandtrain]

Spent a week travelling around Romania, all I can say is take care around the doors, trains depart with them open, some close (due to TB0) but others don't. One instance on an iR from Galtai towards Bucharest a door flew open at 120kmh and train crew were trying to shut it, eventually it was bound shut with a bit of curtain. In Germany we are certainly stricter in this regard.

 

[JonasB]

Show me just one single Dutch VIRM that hasn't been tagged over the windscreen...

 

[Bikeman78]

In the Netherlands it is often already hard to see the actual livery of a train through all the dirt on the outside, so that obscures any graffity as well
Especially the case for NS, where even transparent windows are getting rare, the regional operators have much cleaner trains.

Any revised stock in the Netherlands is now being liveried using coloured foils, so graffity is easier removed as it involves replacing a bit of foil in the worst case (avoiding the need to use agressive cleaners which may permanently damage the paint)

This is true. I remember the plan V units were filthy in their last few years. They used to be bright yellow 20 years ago.

 

[valentaman]

Albanian railways run around with smashed windows glass missing doors open doors missing! and as to the toilets well err they are deffo not hygenic!
graffiti and trash everywhere seems to be a big thing in the balkans!

 

[RailWonderer]

You can't generally speak about "European countries" here. It varies a lot between operators. In Switzerland or the Netherlands for example, you won't see a lot of graffiti.

Sweden also, and to a lesser extent, Denmark keeps its trains and lineside mostly clear of it.

 

[route101]

Spent a week travelling around Romania, all I can say is take care around the doors, trains depart with them open, some close (due to TB0) but others don't. One instance on an iR from Galtai towards Bucharest a door flew open at 120kmh and train crew were trying to shut it, eventually it was bound shut with a bit of curtain. In Germany we are certainly stricter in this regard.

Portugal was interesting on the Douro line, the doors were open upon departure fro Porto but the guard made sure they were all shut.

 

[duesselmartin]

It is interesting that a "lesser" safety standard does not always lead to more fatalities.
People seem sensible enough not to open doors at high speed, go to open doors ect.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is interesting that a "lesser" safety standard does not always lead to more fatalities.
People seem sensible enough not to open doors at high speed, go to open doors ect.

It can do, though. The fatality rate on Indian railways for instance (where H&S isn't a thing at all) is very high indeed, probably worse than UK roads (though I don't have stats).

I do think the UK can overdo safety (when more lives would be saved by cheaper fares attracting people out of cars, say) but equally we don't want people dying all over the place.

 

[JonasB]

Sweden also, and to a lesser extent, Denmark keeps its trains and lineside mostly clear of it.

SL (that runs the commuter trains in and around Stockholm) at least used to have their trains equipped with blue and gray spray paint and instructing the crew to paint over any graffiti they find.

 

[Richard Scott]

I do think the UK can overdo safety (when more lives would be saved by cheaper fares attracting people out of cars, say) but equally we don't want people dying all over the place.

If referencing UK think a bit of an overexaggeration.
Can't think of a time we've had people dying all over the place even when we had droplights and no locks on doors!

 

[Bikeman78]

If referencing UK think a bit of an overexaggeration.
Can't think of a time we've had people dying all over the place even when we had droplights and no locks on doors!

Ironically the UK retained non locking slam doors long after most European countries. I cannot recall slam doors in the Netherlands or Belgium. The Dutch Hondekops, which ran from 1954 to 1996, had manual sliding doors but they were closed centrally by the guard with air pressure. I have no idea how long the air pressure lasted. It was normal to see them arrive at stations with people having slid the doors open before they stopped.

 

[MarcVD]

Ironically the UK retained non locking slam doors long after most European countries. I cannot recall slam doors in the Netherlands or Belgium.

Last belgian slam doors stock, K1 & K3 cars, disappeared around 1995 on the Liège to Luxembourg line.
2 of them still survive today and are still actively used by the Stoom Stichting Nederland.

 

[Bikeman78]

Last belgian slam doors stock, K1 & K3 cars, disappeared around 1995 on the Liège to Luxembourg line.
2 of them still survive today and are still actively used by the Stoom Stichting Nederland.

I must have just missed those. What year were they built? The oldest I can remember are the M2 carriages and hundreds of red or green classic EMUs everywhere.

 

[MarcVD]

I must have just missed those. What year were they built? The oldest I can remember are the M2 carriages and hundreds of red or green classic EMUs everywhere.

Classic EMUS are almost extinct. Less than 20 survive today. M2 cars are gone. K1 cars were built 1933-35 and K2 & K3 in the 1950s.

 

[Richard Scott]

Classic EMUS are almost extinct. Less than 20 survive today. M2 cars are gone. K1 cars were built 1933-35 and K2 & K3 in the 1950s.

What types are the classic EMUs?

 

[MarcVD]

What types are the classic EMUs?

Belgian Railways Classical twin EMUs - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Richard Scott]

Belgian Railways Classical twin EMUs - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Great, thanks.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

A friend from Australia was on Bernina Express recently. He politely warned another group that some were protruding too far out of the carriage. They ignored him.

You need to take your friend for a ride on the Puffing Billy! For those not aware this is a long narrow-gauge steam-operated tourist line in Melbourne's far eastern suburbs (edge of the temperate rainforest) with many effectively open-sided vehicles. The mode of travel involves sitting on what amount to window ledges with nothing more than a single horizontal rail keeping you in the train. First time I saw this I was in utter disbelief but very quickly learned to go with the flow. Kids love it especially going over the wooden trestle bridges.

 

[railfan99]

You need to take your friend for a ride on the Puffing Billy! For those not aware this is a long narrow-gauge steam-operated tourist line in Melbourne's far eastern suburbs (edge of the temperate rainforest) with many effectively open-sided vehicles. The mode of travel involves sitting on what amount to window ledges with nothing more than a single horizontal rail keeping you in the train. First time I saw this I was in utter disbelief but very quickly learned to go with the flow. Kids love it especially going over the wooden trestle bridges.

I live in Melbourne. Points noted, but you're not comparing two apples, as 'Puffing Billy' (762mm gauge) travels at 15-20kmh, the route lacks tunnels and there are no stanchions or other close lineside structures while IIRC signals are not within touching distance for passengers.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A friend from Australia was on Bernina Express recently. He politely warned another group that some were protruding too far out of the carriage. They ignored him.

I'm sure he was trying to be helpful, but people aren't as outgoing in Europe as they are in Australia. It would have likely been a case of wondering why he was involving himself in other people's business. Telling people what to do if they're not staff doesn't go down well.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I live in Melbourne. Points noted, but you're not comparing two apples, as 'Puffing Billy' (762mm gauge) travels at 15-20kmh, the route lacks tunnels and there are no stanchions or other close lineside structures while IIRC signals are not within touching distance for passengers.

On reflection I should have finished my post with an emoji to highlight that I was being a touch flippant. Mea culpa.