Different Driver Depots Route and Traction cards

Merle Haggard

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I imagine Saltey was to the midlands what Newton Heath was to the north west. Secondmen from all over the country came to get booked for driving. This then created a web of massive route knowledge across most of the country.
Thank you, that makes sense.
RfD didn't, as far as I know (and I probably would have), put any pressure on Saltley LDC such as I mentioned for a TLF subsector above. Saltley was the best location for a lot of the traffic (Longbridge/Washwood/Lawley St) so no basis to threaten closure to get the rules bent.
It probably had fewer secondmen per drivers proportion than many depots, so, as you suggest, promotion was probably quicker.
RfD seems to have a bad reputation, with enthusiasts at least, but my own experience was that it was a good place to work and generally well-run - the best time of my railway 'career(?)'.
 
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Tomnick

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EMR Boston drivers do not sign Doncaster anymore, they haven’t for a few years now. It’s only signed by Lincoln drivers and guards these days. They do sign Grimsby and Newark North Gate and have booked work there on a Saturday only. The guards based at Boston don’t sign Grimsby but some now sign North Gate but don’t have booked work. Boston crew also sign Lincoln to Sleaford, drivers only have booked work in one direction with a refresher day built in to their link to refresh it towards Lincoln.
D’oh, somehow missed Lincoln to Sleaford when typing it up. Ta! Now you mention it about Doncaster...!
 

Need2

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I don't know if it has been posted before but Thameslink at Ashford does not sign to Cambridge and Thameslink Orpington does not sign to Welwyn GC.
In fact, these routes haven't even been given the go-ahead or even learned yet!
 

43066

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I don't know if it has been posted before but Thameslink at Ashford does not sign to Cambridge and Thameslink Orpington does not sign to Welwyn GC.
In fact, these routes haven't even been given the go-ahead or even learned yet!
I was surprised to see that too.

Orpington only go as far as West Hampstead TL/Cricklewood AIUI?
 

craigybagel

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I don't know if it has been posted before but Thameslink at Ashford does not sign to Cambridge and Thameslink Orpington does not sign to Welwyn GC.
In fact, these routes haven't even been given the go-ahead or even learned yet!
I was surprised to see that too.

Orpington only go as far as West Hampstead TL/Cricklewood AIUI?
Nope, we go all the way to sunny Luton!
Thanks for that - I was going off an official plan for future work allocation within Thameslink but I guess some of the details in it may not have come to pass as planned! Could you let me know what Thameslink at Ashford do do please? I've edited Orpington to remove WGC, and removed all details for Ashford until I get confirmation as to what work they actually do.
 

Need2

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Thanks for that - I was going off an official plan for future work allocation within Thameslink but I guess some of the details in it may not have come to pass as planned! Could you let me know what Thameslink at Ashford do do please? I've edited Orpington to remove WGC, and removed all details for Ashford until I get confirmation as to what work they actually do.
Ashford:- Sevenoaks - Blackfriars via Swanley and Catford
(temporarily) Orpington - Kentish Town (via above)
Diversions via Herne Hill

Orpington also sign Victoria
 

43066

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From one pedant to another, you are of course spot on. I always forget about the Charlton to Lewisham one :lol:
Haha I blame lockdown, and too much time on my hands, for my current levels of pedantary :D !

I always wondered why they didn’t also sign the Sidcup as another diversion. Presumably deemed too much effort/expense for the drivers to refresh it.
 

the sniper

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Just want to thank craigybagel for his efforts and others for their contributions to this thread, numerous times I've had to try and go searching for this info, great to have it all in one place. Could a mod make it a pinned/sticky thread please?
 

2L70

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Cleethorpes TPE
Cleethorpes - Barton on Humber
Cleethorpes - Manc Airport
Diversions Thrybergh and Romiley
153/185

Hull

Hull - Man Picc
No Diversionary routes
185
 

craigybagel

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There’s only one diversion via Bexleyheath.
Two be pedantic there are two:

- One via the Bexleyheath line;

- One from Charlton to Lewisham via Blackheath tunnel.
To be honest, I got a bit lazy with the Thameslink diversions! From what I've seen most Depots do have lots of diversions around South London, it seemed hard to keep track of them all.

Just want to thank craigybagel for his efforts and others for their contributions to this thread, numerous times I've had to try and go searching for this info, great to have it all in one place. Could a mod make it a pinned/sticky thread please?
You're welcome - I was the same, having to look all over for bits of information and struggling to work it what was in date and what wasn't. I've been pleasantly surprised at how quickly the list has been filled up though!
 

43066

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To be honest, I got a bit lazy with the Thameslink diversions!
If you you haven’t experienced the joys of following a Thameslink, running on restrictive aspects, for thirty miles or so, you haven’t truly done the job.

That’s where the job can be tricky - you’ve been running around on greens since 4pm. Minutes to midnight. You’re on the slows heading back to London, and you suddenly need to be all over it, and raise your game.
 

Galvanize

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From what I remember on Southern:

Southern London Bridge (LC):

377, 455



London Bridge-East Croydon (via Forest Hill)

London Bridge-Streatham Common (via Tulse Hill)

London Victoria-Caterham (via Norbury and East Croydon)

Streatham-Sutton (via Mitcham)

Streatham-Sutton (via Tooting and Wimbledon)

Tulse Hill-Beckenham Junction (via Crystal Palace)

Balham-Sydenham (via Crystal Palace)

Crystal Palace-Norwood Junction

Norwood Junction/Selhurst-Dorking (via West Croydon and Sutton)

Sutton-Epsom Downs

Purley-Tattenham Corner.



Diversionary routes:

Leigham Spur (Tulse Hill-Streatham Hill, usually used by ECS moves)



Depots/sidings:

Selhurst Depot

Streatham Hill sidings

Epsom Down Sidings

*London Bridge Drivers used to sign to East Grinstead but I believe that's no longer on their tickets.

Victoria (VC):

377, 455

London Victoria-East Croydon (via Norbury)

London Bridge-East Croydon (via Forest Hill)

London Bridge-Tulse Hill (via Peckham Rye, Link 2 only)

Balham-Norwood Junction/Sydenham (via Crystal Palace)

Crystal Palace-Beckenham Junction (Link 2 only)

Tulse Hill-Streatham Common (Link 2 only)

Streatham North Junction-Sutton (via Mitcham Junction)

Norwood Junction/Selhurst-Dorking (via West Croydon and Sutton)

Sutton-Epsom Downs

South Croydon-East Grinstead (via Oxted)

Peckham Rye-London Victoria (via Denmark Hill and Stewarts Lane, link 2 only)

East Croydon-Brighton (via Redhill and Quarry Tunnel, link 1 only)

Keymer Junction-Ore (via Lewes and Eastbourne, Link 1 only)

Brighton-Lewes (via Moulscoombe, Link 1 only)

Brighton-Littlehampton (via Hove and Worthing plus spur from Preston Park, Link 1 only)

Three Bridges-Bognor Regis (via Crawley and the Arun Valley, Link 1 only)

Dorking-Horsham (via Holmwood, Link 1 only)



Diversionary routes:

Leigham Spur (Tulse Hill-Streatham Hill, Link 2 only)

London Victoria-Tulse Hill via Brixton and Herne Hill

Peckham Rye-London Victoria (via Denmark Hill and Stewarts Lane, link 2 only)



Depots and Sidings:

Selhurst Depot

Streatham Hill depot

Stewarts Lane Depot

Epsom Down Sidings

Victoria Carriage sidings

Battersea Pier Carriage sidings

Norwood (NW):

171 (Links 1 and 2 only), 377, 455



London Bridge-East Croydon (via Forest Hill)

London Bridge-Streatham Common (via Tulse Hill)

London Victoria-Purley (via Norbury and East Croydon)

Streatham-Sutton (via Mitcham)

Tulse Hill-Crystal Palace

Balham-Sydenham (via Crystal Palace)

Crystal Palace-Norwood Junction

Norwood Junction/Selhurst-Dorking (via West Croydon and Sutton)

South Croydon-East Grinstead (via Oxted)

Purley-Tattenham Corner (Links 2 and 3 only)

Hurst Green-Uckfield (Links 1 and 2 only)

Dorking-Horsham (via Holmwood, Link 2 only)

Clapham Junction-Milton Keynes Central (via Kensington Olympia, Link 1 only)


Norwood Link 1 used to sign the Brighton Mainline all the way to Brighton (both ways via Redhill/Quarry Tunnel) but lost their Brighton work in May 2018 I believe.

Diversionary routes:

Leigham Spur (Tulse Hill-Streatham Hill)

Streatham Common-Imperial Wharf (via Herne Hill, Brixton and Factory Junction Link 1 only)



Depots and Sidings:

Selhurst Depot

Streatham Hill depot

Epsom Down Sidings

Selhurst (SU):

377, 387 (Link 1 only), 455

London Bridge-East Croydon (via Forest Hill)

London Bridge-Streatham Common (via Tulse Hill)

London Victoria-Caterham (via Norbury and East Croydon)

Streatham-Sutton (via Mitcham, Links 1-3 only)

Streatham-Sutton (via Tooting and Wimbledon, Link 1 only)

Tulse Hill-Beckenham Junction (via Crystal Palace)

Balham-Sydenham (via Crystal Palace)

Crystal Palace-Norwood Junction

Norwood Junction/Selhurst-Dorking (via West Croydon and Sutton, Link 4 don't sign beyond Epsom)

Sutton-Epsom Downs

Purley-Tattenham Corner.

East Croydon-Reigate (via Coulsdon South and Redhill, Link 3 only)

East Croydon-Brighton (via Redhill and Quarry Tunnel, Link 1 only)

Dorking-Horsham (via Holmwood, Link 1 only)

Three Bridges-Horsham (via Crawley, Link 1 only)

Leatherhead-Guildford (via Effingham Junction, Link 2 only)



Diversionary Routes:

Leigham Spur

Streatham Common-Victoria (via Herne Hill and Brixton, Link 1 only)



Depots and Sidings:

Selhurst Depot

Streatham Hill sidings

Stewarts Lane Depot (Link 1 only)

Epsom Down sidings

Caterham Sidings

Caterham (CT):

377, 455



London Bridge-East Croydon (via Forest Hill)

London Victoria-Caterham (via Norbury)

Purley-Tattenham Corner

London Bridge-Streatham Common (via Tulse Hill)

Balham-Sydenham/Norwood Junction (via Crystal Palace)

Norwood Junction/Selhurst-Epsom Downs (via West Croydon and Sutton)



Epsom (ES):

377, 455

London Bridge-East Croydon (via Forest Hill)

Victoria-Caterham (via Norbury)

Purley-Tattenham Corner

Balham-Sydenham/Norwood Junction (via Crystal Palace)

Selhurst/Norwood Junction-Horsham (via West Croydon, Sutton and Dorking)

Sutton-Epsom Downs
 

trundlewagon

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Never been able to find an answer to this, so this could be the thread to ask it - how exactly do 'links' work?

Is it a rotational thing - work through the roster on link A, then link B, then back to A? Is it a seniority thing? Is it luck of the draw and that's your lot unless you find someone to swap or it gets reshuffled?

Is it - as I suspect will end up being the answer - a combination of some, all, or none of the above depending on TOC and depot?
 

JammyJames08

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Never been able to find an answer to this, so this could be the thread to ask it - how exactly do 'links' work?

Is it a rotational thing - work through the roster on link A, then link B, then back to A? Is it a seniority thing? Is it luck of the draw and that's your lot unless you find someone to swap or it gets reshuffled?

Is it - as I suspect will end up being the answer - a combination of some, all, or none of the above depending on TOC and depot?
It is a seniority thing, however there a quite a few drivers at depots in SE that have decided to remain in a lower link, thus allowing those less senior to go in front. You don't have to go up if it doesn't suit you or you just don't want to (ie learning more traction & routes) or wether you have to change all your AL around for a year or so, but they won't approach you twice...

Seniority for drivers is broken down into a few "dates".

1.) The date you started on the railway per se...
2.) Then "driving grade" seniority (which if you're off the street is the same date you started, if not its the date you start training)
**3.) Rules seniority. (the date you pass rules and this is the main date used for registration & order for who goes where)

So for example

Joe Bloggs started on the railway as platform staff on 05/09/1997
He started training on the railway as a driver on 02/01/2000
He successfully passed rules for role of driver on 05/04/2000**

in old money the rules seniority is known as "footplate seniority"

This is how they decide who is next to be promoted. If like myself have two of you with all those dates exactly the same. It is done on age (the elder one goes first). I'm welcome to corrections, but it may differ from TOC to TOC? Doesn't matter what shift the next driver is on already.

Apart from an "old mans link" as we call it with more sociable hours & reduced working turns for those chaps/gals over a certain age who have done many years thats ok, but I don't agree with link work personally for everyone else..for operational benefits if all drivers sign the same stuff at a depot then it isn't a problem for anyone to get swaps/get turns covered etc. I find it very old fashioned and in these days of equality you should all do the same...

Theres not many SE depots with links these days only Slade Green, Grove Park & Vic have link work. (again welcome to corrections)
 
Last edited:

craigybagel

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Never been able to find an answer to this, so this could be the thread to ask it - how exactly do 'links' work?

Is it a rotational thing - work through the roster on link A, then link B, then back to A? Is it a seniority thing? Is it luck of the draw and that's your lot unless you find someone to swap or it gets reshuffled?

Is it - as I suspect will end up being the answer - a combination of some, all, or none of the above depending on TOC and depot?

It is a seniority thing, however there a quite a few drivers at depots in SE that have decided to remain in a lower link, thus allowing those less senior to go in front. You don't have to go up if it doesn't suit you or you just don't want to (ie learning more traction & routes) or wether you have to change all your AL around for a year or so, but they won't approach you twice...

Seniority is broken down into a few "dates".

1.) The date you started on the railway per se...
2.) Then "driving grade" seniority (which if you're off the street is the same date you started, if not its the date you start training)
3.) Rules seniority. (the date you pass rules)

This is how they decide who is next to be promoted. If like myself have two of you with all those dates exactly the same. It is done on age (the elder one goes first). I'm welcome to corrections, but it may differ from TOC to TOC?

Apart from an "old mans link" as we call it with more sociable hours for those chaps/gals over a certain age who have done many years, I don't agree with link work personally, for operational benefits if you all sign the same stuff then it isn't a problem.
As with all things, it varies. By and large I believe it is indeed on seniority but there are some depots the links are equal and you get put in whichever one has a vacancy. Traditionally it meant that the "best" work (ie limited stop, better booking on and off times) was given to the more senior drivers, giving a path of progression as time went by. Some of the examples listed above demonstrate that; Southeastern is a great example, with some of their inner London depots only having generally unpopular multi stop DOO work in lower links, but more long distance work with guards to assist in the higher links for drivers to look forward to working some day. The list doesn't show whether or not the links effect booking on and off times, but I know that's still a feature at certain places as well.
 

craigybagel

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If you you haven’t experienced the joys of following a Thameslink, running on restrictive aspects, for thirty miles or so, you haven’t truly done the job.

That’s where the job can be tricky - you’ve been running around on greens since 4pm. Minutes to midnight. You’re on the slows heading back to London, and you suddenly need to be all over it, and raise your game.
Part of me would love the chance to work trains in and out of London at some point in my career (I used to enjoy working on those trains in a non safety critical role in a past life but now as a driver I'm at a regional TOC that doesn't go anywhere near the place), but stuff like that does make me glad I'm not doing it just yet! Thanks to Covid 19, we don't even have many Northern rail services getting in the way like they normally do :lol:

From what I remember on Southern:
Thanks, I'll update the list when I can get to a computer. It's great to see some stuff from Southern, info from their London depots has been surprisingly lacking so far.
 

JammyJames08

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As with all things, it varies. By and large I believe it is indeed on seniority but there are some depots the links are equal and you get put in whichever one has a vacancy. Traditionally it meant that the "best" work (ie limited stop, better booking on and off times) was given to the more senior drivers, giving a path of progression as time went by. Some of the examples listed above demonstrate that; Southeastern is a great example, with some of their inner London depots only having generally unpopular multi stop DOO work in lower links, but more long distance work with guards to assist in the higher links for drivers to look forward to working some day. The list doesn't show whether or not the links effect booking on and off times, but I know that's still a feature at certain places as well.
exactly right mate. Higher links tend to have the better work.
 

Tomnick

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Never been able to find an answer to this, so this could be the thread to ask it - how exactly do 'links' work?

Is it a rotational thing - work through the roster on link A, then link B, then back to A? Is it a seniority thing? Is it luck of the draw and that's your lot unless you find someone to swap or it gets reshuffled?

Is it - as I suspect will end up being the answer - a combination of some, all, or none of the above depending on TOC and depot?
Just to add to the replies above, it isn’t always linked to seniority. We have three main non-progressive links at our place, each covering all of the core local routes and two or three of the longer-distance routes. In addition, there’s a “spare” link that has no booked work but covers all routes. You choose which link you want to go into at the outset. All links are similar in terms of the “quality” of the work, although one does have more sociable start/finish times generally (and less variety of work) but it doesn’t really seem to have any more of a waiting list than the others.
 

DunfordBridge

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SWR are presently recruiting for qualified drivers at the new Feltham depot being constructed for the class 701 Aventra stock. I was also wondering if Woking drivers sign for the Chertsey branch line too, also not already mentioned.
 

TEW

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SWR are presently recruiting for qualified drivers at the new Feltham depot being constructed for the class 701 Aventra stock. I was also wondering if Woking drivers sign for the Chertsey branch line too, also not already mentioned.
Woking do sign via Chertsey, both to Weybridge and Byfleet & New Haw.
 

DunfordBridge

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Woking do sign via Chertsey, both to Weybridge and Byfleet & New Haw.
Thanks for the clarification on that. I gather that the Byfleet curve is used more often on a Sunday when the service from Waterloo through Chertsey is extended to Woking rather than the Weybridge bay platform, apart from today where a bus replacement service is in operation.

Once the Feltham stabling depot is open, be interesting to see if there is any shuffling of routes from one or two other depots.
 

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