Different rovers being rejected in ticket barriers

[ValleyLines142]

Back in January I purchased a Greater Manchester Daysaver from the ticket office at Piccadilly station. It doesn't permit travel before 09:30 and between 16:00 and 18:30. I boarded a service at 10:30 but it got rejected in the barriers. It also got rejected in the barrier at Stockport as well. I just assumed it was a faulty ticket machine.

Fast forward to last week, I purchased the Explore the Capital ticket that allows unlimited travel across Cardiff. Had exactly the same issue.

Does anybody know if rover tickets are designed to do this? It's a great idea but nothing more embarrassing than hearing that rejection beep and having to see a gateline assistant to let you out of the station!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Back in January I purchased a Greater Manchester Daysaver from the ticket office at Piccadilly station. It doesn't permit travel before 09:30 and between 16:00 and 18:30. I boarded a service at 10:30 but it got rejected in the barriers. It also got rejected in the barrier at Stockport as well. I just assumed it was a faulty ticket machine.

Fast forward to last week, I purchased the Explore the Capital ticket that allows unlimited travel across Cardiff. Had exactly the same issue.

Does anybody know if rover tickets are designed to do this? It's a great idea but nothing more embarrassing than hearing that rejection beep and having to see a gateline assistant to let you out of the station!

Most barriers reject all tickets by default, only accepting those which are issued to or from the station where the barriers are located, or which have been specifically listed as valid for BoJ there by the managing TOC.

Rangers and rovers are likely to constitute a tiny percentage of the tickets encountered by the barriers, so it's unlikely the relevant TOC in charge of the barriers will bother to include them in the list of tickets valid for BoJ at the relevant stations.

 

[SteveM70]

Most barriers reject all tickets by default, only accepting those which are issued to or from the station where the barriers are located, or which have been specifically listed as valid for BoJ there by the managing TOC

If only!! Off peak returns from outside Greater Manchester don’t have an evening peak restriction, but still get rejected by the gateline at Victoria even if the ticket is to/from Manchester. I presume there’s a blanket rejection of all off peak tickets between 4pm and 630pm or whenever it is. This is frustrating enough, but it’s then compounded by having to find the one member of staff and persuade him to let you through. Normally there’s a quick glance at the ticket and a “nah, off peak innit”

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

If only!! Off peak returns from outside Greater Manchester don’t have an evening peak restriction, but still get rejected by the gateline at Victoria even if the ticket is to/from Manchester. I presume there’s a blanket rejection of all off peak tickets between 4pm and 630pm or whenever it is. This is frustrating enough, but it’s then compounded by having to find the one member of staff and persuade him to let you through. Normally there’s a quick glance at the ticket and a “nah, off peak innit”

Ah, I was referring to the location-wise validity. Timewise validity is another question entirely, whose programming varies widely by TOC and area.

 

[Blinkbonny]

Don't think I've ever had a Rover that worked the barriers.

One time I had to climb over the gate at Cardiff Central with a Freedom of the Valleys!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Last time I had a 'Lancashire Day Ranger', I was so expecting it not to open the barriers at Blackpool North, and then having to blag my way through at the manned gate with one of BPN's finest.

Amazed when it worked first time!

 

[Lytham Local]

Last time I had a 'Lancashire Day Ranger', I was so expecting it not to open the barriers at Blackpool North, and then having to blag my way through at the manned gate with one of BPN's finest.

Amazed when it worked first time!

My Lancs Day Ranger was rejected by staff at Wigan North Western with their hand held scanner thing. The VT staff member in question said it wouldn't be valid as Wigan was considered part of Greater Manchester rather than Lancashire. Oddly enough, the gates at Manchester Oxford Road worked with it.

 

[Haywain]

It's really rather unusual for a barrier line to accept rover tickets. This is because the ticket type coded on the ticket is the same for all rovers, regardless of the geographic area they cover. So to accept requires coding around the destination location code which not all gatelines will have the capacity to do - Cubic gates are limited to 10 codes being accepted as the 'home' station.

 

[John Hunt]

The last time I had an All Line Rover was in 2018. I knew from the previous year that it would be rejected at barriers so from the start I put it into a see-through pouch (along with my Senior Railcard) to avoid it becoming grubby by the end of the 14 days. (good tip because officially, as far as I'm aware, a railcard has to be shown along with the ticket.)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My Lancs Day Ranger was rejected by staff at Wigan North Western with their hand held scanner thing. The VT staff member in question said it wouldn't be valid as Wigan was considered part of Greater Manchester rather than Lancashire.

Always a tad annoying when you have to cart around the relevant Rovers & Rangers publicity leaflet with you to provide the necessary ammunition should you encounter less than clued-up revenue protection staff.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Human barriers on the other hand would appect anything in my experience.

Bath used to have human barriers at the top of the stairs, before the machine ones were put in. I've had Heart of Wessex, Freedom of South West and Bristol/Bath freedom passes accepted by them.

By accepted I mean they'd take it, say 'thank you' then I'd ask to have it back as it's a rover, then they'd look at it properly and go 'oh...'

(Mind you I remember years ago having a valid Trowbridge to Bath ticket, but as I had a wallet of old tickets I thought I'd see what would happen if I handed a West Midlands day ticket, and it was accepted!)

Is the Freedom Pass for Bristol/Bath/Weston accepted at barriers nowadays? I thought it worked at Bristol but I cant remember...

 

[northken]

Human barriers on the other hand would appect anything in my experience.

Bath used to have human barriers at the top of the stairs, before the machine ones were put in. I've had Heart of Wessex, Freedom of South West and Bristol/Bath freedom passes accepted by them.

By accepted I mean they'd take it, say 'thank you' then I'd ask to have it back as it's a rover, then they'd look at it properly and go 'oh...'

(Mind you I remember years ago having a valid Trowbridge to Bath ticket, but as I had a wallet of old tickets I thought I'd see what would happen if I handed a West Midlands day ticket, and it was accepted!)

Is the Freedom Pass for Bristol/Bath/Weston accepted at barriers nowadays? I thought it worked at Bristol but I cant remember...

Based on my experiences, I believe not.

I've encountered that form of 'acceptance' using a Thames Branches Day Ranger at Maidenhead - it did feel weird to correct a staff member, and they clearly felt embarrassed.

 

[james60059]

The times I've done a West Midlands day ranger, it's always been rejected at the barriers at BHM, but the gateline staff just let you through, one asked once what type of ticket it was as she had never seen one before.

Going to London as well, if you get a Z1-6 travelcard for the Euston ticket office on the main concourse it won't operate the barriers at Underground Stations, but a Z1-6 purchased at the actual underground station does - as stated previously must be a coding issue of sorts.

 

[superjohn]

It has been a while since I did one, but the three in seven day Anglia Plus Rover used to open the barriers for the full seven days of validity. Perhaps this was due to the small number of stations with barriers within its area (Cambridge, Ipswich and Norwich only) enabling custom local programming. The one day version seemed to behave like a single ticket. It would open the barriers for one entry and one exit but nothing after that.

I once had a West Midlands Day Ranger swallowed by the barrier on exit at Coventry. The attendant who retrieved it said „You aren’t supposed to put those through there“. News to me!

 

[jfollows]

The last time I had an All Line Rover was in 2018. I knew from the previous year that it would be rejected at barriers so from the start I put it into a see-through pouch (along with my Senior Railcard) to avoid it becoming grubby by the end of the 14 days. (good tip because officially, as far as I'm aware, a railcard has to be shown along with the ticket.)

Agreed.
I'm sure most of us lucky enough to have used an all-line rover will have encountered this.
It just seems much worse recently, probably because of the prevalence of barriers.
I mean, it's usually a case of
1. Try and find someone to get through the barrier
2. Be told that I've got to put my ticket through a barrier
3. Despite saying that I know it won't work, getting no response
4. Putting the ticket through the barrier, where it won't work
5. Getting the ticket looked at
6. If you're lucky, get "oh, I haven't seen one of these, what is it?"
7. If you're lucky, then be "allowed" to bypass the barrier and go on your way

It's a refreshing change to find someone, like the lady at a busy Reading station last September, who immediately said "of course, these never work do they, please go on through"

Still, I've never yet actually been unable to get past the barriers with the ticket. Even the Euston barrier staff were polite last September, despite the usual "I've not seen one of these before, what is it?"

 

[John Hunt]

It's a refreshing change to find someone, like the lady at a busy Reading station last September, who immediately said "of course, these never work do they, please go on through"

Yes. Surprised at how many times I heard that too! (but not at Blackpool North LOL)

 

[David Goddard]

Agreed.
I'm sure most of us lucky enough to have used an all-line rover will have encountered this.
It just seems much worse recently, probably because of the prevalence of barriers.

We did a two week First Class All Line Rover in 2012, and given that the tickets had a face value of £1,020 each we were not really prepared to attempt to risk putting them into a barrier. Fortunately (helped by the size of our suitcases) we never had any issues and was able to show and go each time we encountered any of them!

 

[jfollows]

We did a two week First Class All Line Rover in 2012, and given that the tickets had a face value of £1,020 each we were not really prepared to attempt to risk putting them into a barrier.

I understand.
Sometimes it's quite hard to avoid doing so in the light of the insistence from staff.
However, for what it's worth, I've never had a barrier "swallow" an all-line rover ticket, the worst (and usual) behaviour is that it makes an unpleasant noise, ejects the ticket and doesn't open the gate.

 

[najaB]

Does anybody know if rover tickets are designed to do this? It's a great idea but nothing more embarrassing than hearing that rejection beep and having to see a gateline assistant to let you out of the station!

What's to be embarrassed about - you've got a valid ticket after all?

 

[jfollows]

What's to be embarrassed about - you've got a valid ticket after all?

I agree, I don't find it embarrassing, but it's extremely annoying, especially if you're in a hurry to catch a train because - as if by magic - all the staff are suddenly elsewhere or dealing with other passengers and you're stuck at this gate going "bleep" in an annoying way and not letting you through. Sometimes the next step is the implication from staff that you haven't got a valid ticket, so they don't exactly rush to help you sometimes. It's just annoying and unnecessary if it were possible to design the ticket/gate interaction properly in the first place - presumably it's not worth the bother for the small number of rover sales.

 

[AM9]

It has been a while since I did one, but the three in seven day Anglia Plus Rover used to open the barriers for the full seven days of validity. Perhaps this was due to the small number of stations with barriers within its area (Cambridge, Ipswich and Norwich only) enabling custom local programming. The one day version seemed to behave like a single ticket. It would open the barriers for one entry and one exit but nothing after that.

I once had a West Midlands Day Ranger swallowed by the barrier on exit at Coventry. The attendant who retrieved it said „You aren’t supposed to put those through there“. News to me!

A few years ago I had a one day Anglia Plus that let me out at Ipswich but made me wait 5 or 10 minutes to get back on the platform

 

[AM9]

Most barriers reject all tickets by default, only accepting those which are issued to or from the station where the barriers are located, or which have been specifically listed as valid for BoJ there by the managing TOC.

Rangers and rovers are likely to constitute a tiny percentage of the tickets encountered by the barriers, so it's unlikely the relevant TOC in charge of the barriers will bother to include them in the list of tickets valid for BoJ at the relevant stations.

When all (or most) barriers are connected to a central location, the ticket would only need to have a unique identity. It could then be validated against the same databse entry created when it was issued. Of course the decision to delay 5G might make that a long way in the future.

 

[Haywain]

It could then be validated against the same databse entry created when it was issued.

What database is that then?

 

[najaB]

What database is that then?

One presumes this is in the far future when RDG (or whatever has replaced them by then) use a single, shared database for ticket sales.

 

[jfollows]

I would expect that when I spend £1,020 (or whatever) on a train ticket that the barriers should be able to recognise the ticket's validity and let me through. Sadly that's simply not the case today. Whether or not there's any desire, capability or intention of changing that in the near future is unclear. I hope that things change for the better in the near future.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I would expect that when I spend £1,020 (or whatever) on a train ticket that the barriers should be able to recognise the ticket's validity and let me through. Sadly that's simply not the case today. Whether or not there's any desire, capability or intention of changing that in the near future is unclear. I hope that things change for the better in the near future.

The percentage of passengers holding such a ticket, and thus the percentage of rail industry revenues raised through such tickets, is probably less than 0.01%. Quite frankly I'd imagine the railway would sooner abolish them entirely than make the effort to program in such tickets.

 

[43096]

A few years ago I had a one day Anglia Plus that let me out at Ipswich but made me wait 5 or 10 minutes to get back on the platform

That’s standard on any ticket - it’s to prevent the “pass ticket back over to your mate” scenario.

 

[jfollows]

The percentage of passengers holding such a ticket, and thus the percentage of rail industry revenues raised through such tickets, is probably less than 0.01%. Quite frankly I'd imagine the railway would sooner abolish them entirely than make the effort to program in such tickets.

But I don't think you're saying that it's acceptable for people like me who buy such a ticket being treated as potential criminals by railway staff, are you? Because this is what happens, although I have the fortitude to work past it. And it's not really acceptable, I don't think.

 

[John Hunt]

That’s standard on any ticket - it’s to prevent the “pass ticket back over to your mate” scenario.

That's a new one on me - probably because I've never tried it.

 

[SteveM70]

That’s standard on any ticket - it’s to prevent the “pass ticket back over to your mate” scenario.

Why is that necessary? Surely the rejection should be two attempted uses in the same direction?