I think you sum up my point though with the it’s only another day in a hotel. It’s an inconvenience, but one I’ve faced on airlines too multiple times. I have no real idea how much maintaining route knowledge for high speed drivers would cost for the entire route to London, but would it be worth it for an event which has happened once in the time I can remember. (Realistically baring a full HS1 closure would diversionary paths and crewing would not be organised in time)
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Disruption on HS1 due to signalling problems caused by flooding in the Thames Tunnel.
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Well you couldn't because a) the tunnel is the wrong side of the block & b) there are absoutely no departure processing facilities at Stratford Intl.
Airlines may have spare planes, but Eurostar is rather less likely to.
Except you can't get Eurostar trains to Stratford because the rail tunnel under the Thames is a bit damp.
Had to travel back to Dover from Charing Cross this afternoon because of the disruption. It was on a 3x 375.
More than the usual number of foreign travellers. Including a Dutch family in the carriage I was on who were trying to ring someone to get aboard a ferry as foot passengers.
More than the usual number of foreign travellers. Including a Dutch family in the carriage I was on who were trying to ring someone to get aboard a ferry as foot passengers.
I have a hunch that there may be a bigger problem in that there are few any British loading gauge, 3rd rail equipped Eurostar sets anymore, of which two are stuck on the far side of France on Alps services (to make things worse I think I saw somewhere that some e300 - i.e. the Class 373s in "old money" - sets had 3rd rail equipment removed), so even if it were in place all that could really happen would be that the few OLE AC and TVM-equipped Southeastern EMUs (someone correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect that it's a fancy way of saying "Class 395s") would be able to shuttle passengers between Ashford and London (which of course is functionally no different to doing without Fawkham Jct. and just having people change at Ashford).
Man of Kent
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SE have strengthened some services today - 8 to 12. [Edit: As @Cletus has confirmed as I was typing this]
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
All the 373s have had their shoegear and the associated electricals removed as far as I know.
But it wasn't an extra flight, it was an upgrade to a bigger aircraft using the same ATC slot.
Excellent news. The railway responding to "events dear boy, events".
The square root of virtually nothing if a morning peak service was run via Ebbsfleet and Fawkham to Victoria and another to Cannon St via Ebbsfleet and Fawkham and vice versa in the evening. I suspect they would be exceptionally well used too.
If you are competent you organise it in detail in advance, with a contingency plan and roll it out when the merde hits the fan. This involves things like getting Q paths, driver route knowledge (see above) deciding in advance what gets canned to enable a change at short notice (eg canning the services via Gravesend to Margate to free up crew up and stock to run the services from Ashford to Victoria/Cannon St, and canning some suburhban services if needed to clear paths/space at Termini.
In this case its a lot easier than in many cases as thesame TOC runs both classic and Javelin services.
The missing thing is a controlling mind to direct it all and bang heads together. Separation of track and train makes this virtually imlossible and it hds only worked up to now due to many ex BR people with experience of running an integrated railway ignoring the contractual crap and getting on with it. As they retire and leave the whole thing is starting to fall apart.
My point on this bit was that send all your javelins off to Victoria at the first sign of trouble creates issues with service recovery after, as everything is in the wrong place. It isn’t until you know the disruption will continue for an extended time you can implement the plans.
Again in this case its an easier decision than most.
1) International trains start running through again as soon as the line opens.
2) The Javelins are relatively short distance outer suburban services so the changeover to running normally again isn't as bad as many, and in any case the classic services continue to run.
johncrossley
Established Member
There are several flights with spare seats from London to various parts of western Europe from where you can find trains or coaches to Brussels, Amsterdam or Paris. For example, if you found a flight to Frankfurt you could then get a train to Brussels, Paris or Amsterdam. If you can find a flight from London to Marseille you can then get a TGV back to Paris.
Alternatively you could fly to Paris or Brussels via another city. For example, London - Dublin - Paris.
When Heathrow had computer problems, British Airways allowed passengers to go other routes and claim it back. Similarly, Eurostar should allow this.
Alternatively you could fly to Paris or Brussels via another city. For example, London - Dublin - Paris.
When Heathrow had computer problems, British Airways allowed passengers to go other routes and claim it back. Similarly, Eurostar should allow this.
Eurostar’s disruption leaflet that is being handed out at stations specifically states they will not cover flights.
brad465
Established Member
Have the actual ironworks been cut somewhere? I know it was taken out of use when an old 373 was stored on the link, but the junction with the Chatham mainline seems to be in place still. I assume if a physical separation now exists it's somewhere part way along out of view of either end.
Taylor1
New Member
Look at the pictures of families sitting on the floors at Gare du Nord or St Pancras. Is what you suggest really feasible for them, or for many overseas tourists, paying our VAT for whom Brussels is nearer to London than San Franciso to LA which I can drive in about 6 hours! They don't have our railway minds at all and need help.
CarrotPie
Member
Just because it is fed from the French end doesn't mean it can't also be fed from the English end! My understanding (I may be wrong) is that they've just chosen to use the French connection, but both sides can power it on their own.
The connection was there last year, it's there on my Track maps book, and, most importantly, it's there on Google Earth! If that's exceptionally out of date, when was it severed?
johncrossley
Established Member
My point is that they should from a customer service point of view. British Airways, to their credit, paid out huge sums for passengers to take alternative routes around the world. My friend ended up shelling out £1,000 for a replacement flight on another airline and BA paid out.
Taylor1
New Member
Friday, as usual, I left home to give my housekeeper free reign. She couldn’t get in—wrong set of keys. Back-up plan A: call the concierge—sadly concierge out on an emergency call. Back-up Plan B: call me—sadly her new phone hadn’t copied over all her contacts, including me. Back-up Plan C: call my wife—sadly same as Plan B, plus my wife was out of the country this weekend. Yes, we had three back-up plans for something so simple and still we came unstuck!
OK, what’s really at issue here, and it came up, upthread, are the insurance costs to cover outages. My wife is also in the travel industry, and we would never, ever travel at this time of year unless we had to. We did have a bereavement in the family a few weeks ago and would have been prepared to pay the €792 BA are asking for a seat on Sunday’s 16h15 flight from CDG to LHR. I always tell friends always save enough and put it to one side to travel back in the highest fare category wherever you travel. I’ve told Eurostar, which I used pretty much weekly up to about five years ago (at the beginning, zounds, the UK Immigration was done on the train, but of course that had to go out of the window as soon as the UK was no longer going to be a party to the Dublin agreement on repatriation), that they no longer offer the product I need. Eurostar’s business model is now built around the lowest common service provision, just like Michael O’Leary’s Ryanair. If you’re hale and hearty and have no kids and are willing to accept the risks, then really, that’s absolutely fine, but my time and business are too precious for that kind of uncertainty—and there are many, many passengers who are far less fit and aware than I am who simply don’t realise the very significant even enormous risks they are taking on themselves by buying cheap highly restricted tickets, by definition most Eurostar tickets. Sadly, (sorry about the tautology), the service providers sculpt their product around the majority of consumers who are willing to take those risks. Wet lease a crewed A320 costs about €40,000 plus 50% for all the ancillary ground costs, that’s around €400 per passenger for the above route. How many takers? Just checked: 25 Jan. fully flexible ticket on Eurostar €375, Standard class €74 non-ref., change fee €40. Guess what the insurance cost is? What a surprise!
Regarding system resilience, I don’t know who it was in the UK who gave Eurostar a licence to conduct business, but the retention of some 373s able to work into Waterloo or Victoria and immigration inspection resilience should have been in the HS1 enabling act. I do hope those passengers who are caught up in this mess, will shout loudly about their appalling treatment. But hey, as far as the governments are concerned, a large number are not voters and are thus voiceless!
OK, what’s really at issue here, and it came up, upthread, are the insurance costs to cover outages. My wife is also in the travel industry, and we would never, ever travel at this time of year unless we had to. We did have a bereavement in the family a few weeks ago and would have been prepared to pay the €792 BA are asking for a seat on Sunday’s 16h15 flight from CDG to LHR. I always tell friends always save enough and put it to one side to travel back in the highest fare category wherever you travel. I’ve told Eurostar, which I used pretty much weekly up to about five years ago (at the beginning, zounds, the UK Immigration was done on the train, but of course that had to go out of the window as soon as the UK was no longer going to be a party to the Dublin agreement on repatriation), that they no longer offer the product I need. Eurostar’s business model is now built around the lowest common service provision, just like Michael O’Leary’s Ryanair. If you’re hale and hearty and have no kids and are willing to accept the risks, then really, that’s absolutely fine, but my time and business are too precious for that kind of uncertainty—and there are many, many passengers who are far less fit and aware than I am who simply don’t realise the very significant even enormous risks they are taking on themselves by buying cheap highly restricted tickets, by definition most Eurostar tickets. Sadly, (sorry about the tautology), the service providers sculpt their product around the majority of consumers who are willing to take those risks. Wet lease a crewed A320 costs about €40,000 plus 50% for all the ancillary ground costs, that’s around €400 per passenger for the above route. How many takers? Just checked: 25 Jan. fully flexible ticket on Eurostar €375, Standard class €74 non-ref., change fee €40. Guess what the insurance cost is? What a surprise!
Regarding system resilience, I don’t know who it was in the UK who gave Eurostar a licence to conduct business, but the retention of some 373s able to work into Waterloo or Victoria and immigration inspection resilience should have been in the HS1 enabling act. I do hope those passengers who are caught up in this mess, will shout loudly about their appalling treatment. But hey, as far as the governments are concerned, a large number are not voters and are thus voiceless!
I know which is why I mentioned if stratford had lived up to its name. Meaningless now as I’ve realised that the Thames tunnel I assumed the flooding was is the wrong one. Assumed it was the bit between Stratford and St Pancras.
renegademaster
Member
What is Eurostar cancellation compensation like? Is it just the money back or do they get a bit on top like what airlines give you
ThameslinkUser
Member
Where is a copy of this?
renegademaster
Member
What are those Margate passengers going to do? Why are the Eurostar passengers more important?
aren't there other options for UK domestic journeys? There certainly aren't for would-be E* passengers!
Airlines are obliged by law to reroute passengers on other airlines when a flight is cancelled and they cannot accommodate the passengers themselves in a reasonable time. BA does not deserve special credit for doing what the law required of it.
Train operators are obliged to reroute onto other train operators, but not other modes of transport. Eurostar is of course the only operator on this route so this is somewhat irrelevant.
renegademaster
Member
Aren't domestic operators required to put people in taxis, replacement busses / hotels should they not be able to make the journey via train?
johncrossley
Established Member
Eurostar is effectively an airline on rails and their existence severely harms air competition on the London to Brussels and Paris routes, to the point that no low cost airlines operate between London and Brussels. Therefore they should be obliged to reroute onto airlines. Otherwise London to Paris/Brussels passengers are more likely to be left high and dry compared to passengers on other routes.
Probably more that they can't than anything; I imagine there's very little availability left before New Year's Eve.
Get on the "classic" service towards Victoria / Charing Cross / Cannon Street.
johncrossley
Established Member
I just looked. There are seats on all Aer Lingus flights between London and Dublin, and between Dublin and Paris tomorrow. So you can easily fly London - Dublin - Paris.
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