Disruption on Sunday/Monday if England win

[Surreytraveller]

But work pays the bills, the mortgage etc. Unless you have thousands in the bank....

I think managers and HR will be paying a close eye on sickies come Monday morning. I certainly won't be impressed if my staff fail to turn up and lists have to be cancelled on the day - appointments have already been heavily delayed due to the pandemic

I think managers and HR are incompetent, as it is them that have allowed these situations to occur in the first place. Where drivers are concerned, it is the unions calling the shots, not HR/management

 

[Mountain Man]

I'm working Sunday as I be travelling to Kent for work, if there's mass cancellations then it's ticket acceptance or rail replacement paid by the TOC be it buses or taxis.

If they can find the buses and taxis.

So what?

It's only a football match, it's not important!

For a lot of people, an event that brings friends and families together and provides some joy after a really tough 18 months is actually really important.

 

[PTR 444]

"If you don't want to know the score, look away now"

“Or don’t turn on the TV, radio, internet or come into contact with anyone who has watched the match”

No one is going to do that. Just watch it, it's not EastEnders

Can’t watch it live if you’re working the same night. That’s the whole reason why BBC iPlayer and subsequent on-demand services were invented.

 

[dk1]

Our Sunday roster for drivers at my depot is fully covered although there are 7 who have leave declined with all but one in the afternoon/evening. The duty traincrew managers are however working their little socks off to keep everyone happy by going over & above offering carrots to cover their turns. Monday is no issue whatsoever.

 

[SteveM70]

The primary schools where I live have all emailed parents and said words to the effect of “let your kids watch the football if they want, we’re opening as normal on Monday morning but lessons won’t start till 1030 so as long as they’re in by then that’s fine” which seems eminently sensible to me

On a different note, will TOCs think they need to be more vigilant than normal about people in safety critical roles on early Monday morning shifts, given the temptation to have a few drinks on Sunday night (and the game may not finish till after 2230 if it goes to penalties) or do they trust people to be sensible?

 

[dk1]

On a different note, will TOCs think they need to be more vigilant than normal about people in safety critical roles on early Monday morning shifts, given the temptation to have a few drinks on Sunday night (and the game may not finish till after 2230 if it goes to penalties) or do they trust people to be sensible?

We have already had a work email to that effect as if we need reminding.

 

[Mag_seven]

On a different note, will TOCs think they need to be more vigilant than normal about people in safety critical roles on early Monday morning shifts, given the temptation to have a few drinks on Sunday night (and the game may not finish till after 2230 if it goes to penalties) or do they trust people to be sensible?

I would imagine 99.9% of safety critical rail staff will not be drinking the night before they book on. It is a career ending act if they do.

 

[O L Leigh]

Our Sunday roster for drivers at my depot is fully covered although there are 7 who have leave declined with all but one in the afternoon/evening. The duty traincrew managers are however working their little socks off to keep everyone happy by going over & above offering carrots to cover their turns. Monday is no issue whatsoever.

We had four open turns at the point the daily mark-up was done with five declined the day off. However, I'm guessing they covered them easily enough as the begging messages had already stopped a couple of days back. It seems that they are actually having more trouble covering turns today than tomorrow.

On a different note, will TOCs think they need to be more vigilant than normal about people in safety critical roles on early Monday morning shifts, given the temptation to have a few drinks on Sunday night (and the game may not finish till after 2230 if it goes to penalties) or do they trust people to be sensible?

Anyone who needs to be reminded about that probably shouldn't be in the job. To risk your job like that would be monumentally dense.

 

[dk1]

We had four open turns at the point the daily mark-up was done with five declined the day off. However, I'm guessing they covered them easily enough as the begging messages had already stopped a couple of days back. It seems that they are actually having more trouble covering turns today than tomorrow.

Good to hear that most are getting the time off. There’s volunteers that will need booking off with pay Monday so as long as that causes no issues then everybody will will win. Let’s hope England do the same now.

 

[LIMA66]

Our Sunday roster for drivers at my depot is fully covered although there are 7 who have leave declined with all but one in the afternoon/evening. The duty traincrew managers are however working their little socks off to keep everyone happy by going over & above offering carrots to cover their turns. Monday is no issue whatsoever.

All covered here down here on the “Sunshine Coast”, two are N/A declined which is a shame.

I’ve also had an email from my company about D&A and working early Monday. Thankfully I booked Monday off straight after the game Wednesday.

 

[SignallerJohn]

But work pays the bills, the mortgage etc. Unless you have thousands in the bank....

I think managers and HR will be paying a close eye on sickies come Monday morning. I certainly won't be impressed if my staff fail to turn up and lists have to be cancelled on the day - appointments have already been heavily delayed due to the pandemic

Unfortunately you can’t prove anything.

“Oh I see you were off sick the day you wanted off for England?”
“Well it’s a good job I didn’t have the day off because it would have been ruined by being sick”

Or maybe

“You called in sick the day after England played?”
“I must have had sickness and diarrhea, I won’t be back until Wednesday at the earliest”

Maybe I’ve pulled X muscle, or I can’t get child care. I’ve heard them all. I’m personally working as I don’t care for football.

 

[SteveM70]

I would imagine 99.9% of safety critical rail staff will not be drinking the night before they book on. It is a career ending act if they do.

Anyone who needs to be reminded about that probably shouldn't be in the job. To risk your job like that would be monumentally dense.

Yes, that makes absolute sense, but (i) as a passenger I’d be a bit worried about the 0.1% and (ii) I didn’t realise everyone in a safety critical role was MENSA standard

People make errors of judgement all the time.

The point is more that should the employer, in a risk-averse industry, flag a late-evening football match of national significance as an additional risk and take suitable action to try and mitigate it?

I work in the logistics industry, and I know our drivers have all received a polite but serious reminder about alcohol the night before an early start, and the proportion receiving a random test before they get their keys (there are some every day) has been increased for Monday

 

[dk1]

All covered here down here on the “Sunshine Coast”, two are N/A declined which is a shame.

I’ve also had an email from my company about D&A and working early Monday. Thankfully I booked Monday off straight after the game Wednesday.

Good to hear. Luckily I’m long weekend but have had a few requests to cover turns.

 

[175001]

Very few staff are going to put their neck on the line and "pull a sickie" to avoid a duty they're booked to be doing.

a) A lot of TOCs work on the basis of Sundays outside anyway - so they would have no reason to
b) those who work for Sundays inside TOCs would be encouraging a lot of scrutiny on themselves, and might even be asked to produce a sick note.

Fact is the railway has been run on overtime for years. As I'm sure anyone who has been through the process knows, railway recruitment is painfully slow. Combine this with the fact it's in TOCs' interests to keep establishment numbers low and fill the gaps with overtime - less salaries to pay when you don't need so many staff, less training, less competencies to maintain. Usually this strategy works, because it's very easy to tempt people to work overtime if you offer a lot of cash for it. However, in situations where a large number of people don't want to be available for whatever reason, it falls apart.

Nobody is immoral for not wanting to work overtime. Especially not when that overtime is going to involve carrying large numbers of very happy / upset and very drunk football fans back from the pub. I wouldn't be working this Sunday if I wasn't obligated to.

And attacking railway staff with words like these won't improve the situation you generalise...

[Regards from a Driver who can't work Sunday due to Lord Hidden's report]

 

[grah2702]

I'll still be going to bed at the same time, other half will up at 4am, I'll be up 6am.
Even if there was a bank holiday I wouldn't be boozing to all hours in the morning.
Maybe I'm getting old..

Yes getting old is one of the hazards of life.

 

[ungreat]

Sunday
Thameslink 9P, 9S and 9J suspended ...

 

[grah2702]

With the Monday after being 19th July or otherwise the so called “freedom day”, perhaps it might make a lot more sense to have the bank holiday then

"freedom day" in name only I think freedom as us mere mortals know it will not materialize.

 

[skyhigh]

Yes, that makes absolute sense, but (i) as a passenger I’d be a bit worried about the 0.1% and (ii) I didn’t realise everyone in a safety critical role was MENSA standard

You don't have to be of MENSA standard to know the rules. It's the first thing drummed into you at training, random testing goes on throughout the year and if you're caught it's almost certainly curtains to your railway career. You'd have to be incredibly, incredibly stupid to take a gamble on your career for the sake of a drink. I'd also suggest the percentage of train crew who'd consider that are probably way under 0.1% - maybe 0.001%.

You have nothing to worry about as a passenger.

 

[PHILIPE]

Several posts have already confirmed that various TOCs will definitely be having moderate/substantial cancellations on Sunday.

NRE report many of the cancellations as due to COVID self isolating

Details have started to appear on the GWR site.

The below train services have been highlighted as uncovered,
we are working cover as many services as possible, on the day of travel, please check before you travel.


Night Riviera Sleeper services
The Night Riviera Sleeper services are cancelled, you may use your ticket for travel on an earlier train on Sunday 11th July or for travel on the following day Monday 12th July.
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
21:15 Penzance to London Paddington

Train services between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads, Weston-super-Mare & Plymouth
14:56 Plymouth to London Paddington via Bristol Temple Meads at 17:02 will be cancelled.
18:27 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington will be cancelled
20:15 Weston-super- Mare to London Paddington will be cancelled
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads will be cancelled
17:30 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare will terminate at Bristol Temple Meads
20:30 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare will be cancelled.


Train services between London Paddington, Westbury, Exeter St Davids, Plymouth and Penzance
Train services from London Paddington:

08:00 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
09:13 Plymouth to Penzance will be cancelled
12:02 London Paddington to Penzance will be terminated at Exeter St Davids.
14:37 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
15:03 London Paddington to Plymouth will call additionally at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary.
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance will be cancelled.
19:04 London Paddington to Plymouth will be cancelled.

Train services to London Paddington:
10:16 Penzance to London Paddington will be cancelled.
14:13 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington will be cancelled.
12:16 Penzance to London Paddington will start at Plymouth.
15:18 Penzance to London Paddington, will call additionally at Castle Cary, Westbury and Pewsey.
17:40 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington will be cancelled.
17:50 Penzance to London Paddington will start at Exeter St Davids.


Train services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa
19:31 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa will be cancelled.
20:59 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon will be cancelled.


Train services between London Paddington, Oxford and Hereford
11:46 London Paddington to Hereford will start from Reading and terminate at Worcester Shrub Hill.
12:46 London Paddington to Great Malvern will be cancelled.
16:46 London Paddington to Great Malvern will start from Reading and terminate at Great Malvern.
15:31 Hereford- London Paddington will be cancelled.
16:58 Great Malvern- London Paddington will start from Worcester Shrub Hill and terminate at Reading.
19:58 Great Malvern to London Paddington will start from Great Malvern and terminate at Reading.

Local stopping train services between Exeter St Davids, Plymouth and Penzance
From Exeter to Plymouth and Penzance
08:26 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth will be cancelled.
09:15 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth will be cancelled.
09:27 Exeter St Davids to Penzance will be cancelled.
09:56 Plymouth to Penzance will be cancelled.
11:21 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth will be cancelled.
11:21 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth will be cancelled
13:09 Exeter St Davids to Penzance will be started at Plymouth
15:03 Exeter St Davids to Penzance will be cancelled.
16:20 Exeter St Davids to Penzance will be cancelled.

From Penzance and Plymouth to Exeter
08:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids will be terminated at Plymouth.
09:50 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
11:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
12:45 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
12:50 Penzance to Plymouth will be cancelled.
13:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
14:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
16:50 Penzance to Plymouth will be cancelled.

Local stopping train services between Paignton and Exmouth
16:18 Paignton to Exmouth will be terminated at Exeter St Davids.
17:57 Exmouth to Paignton will be cancelled.
19:45 Paignton to Exmouth will be started at Exeter St Davids.

South Wales routes not mentioned but Swansea (Depot) is in Wales

 

[johncrossley]

I work in the logistics industry, and I know our drivers have all received a polite but serious reminder about alcohol the night before an early start, and the proportion receiving a random test before they get their keys (there are some every day) has been increased for Monday

I presume random testing is done on the railways as well?

 

[Tomnick]

I work in the logistics industry, and I know our drivers have all received a polite but serious reminder about alcohol the night before an early start, and the proportion receiving a random test before they get their keys (there are some every day) has been increased for Monday

Random tests for traincrew booking on aren't really practical though, unless you have others sitting spare, as booking-on times are invariably timed right down to the bare minimum already - so you'd be looking at widespread late starts otherwise.

 

[skyhigh]

Random tests for traincrew booking on aren't really practical though, unless you have others sitting spare, as booking-on times are invariably timed right down to the bare minimum already - so you'd be looking at widespread late starts otherwise.

It happens at our place - when you book on the first bit of your job is covered by someone else, and you get asked to complete the testing.

 

[dk1]

It happens at our place - when you book on the first bit of your job is covered by someone else, and you get asked to complete the testing.

On occasions when random screening was done they needed a minimum of 12 tested. Often ended up only possible to get a few traincrew so they raid the office staff to make the numbers up.

 

[father_jack]

I think managers and HR are incompetent, as it is them that have allowed these situations to occur in the first place. Where drivers are concerned, it is the unions calling the shots, not HR/management

Let me assure you that it's the companies that are dragging their feet on sundays being in the working week. The unions are well up for it, more staff and more subs.

 

[dk1]

Greater Anglia have announced retiming & additional calls into services late Sunday to assist with football. The 23:30 Liverpool St - Norwich will now depart at 23:45.

 

[Tomnick]

It happens at our place - when you book on the first bit of your job is covered by someone else, and you get asked to complete the testing.

Not daily, though? Doing it on an occasional, random basis is one thing, testing X drivers/guards each day is quite another (and testing even more on Monday, when presumably there will be few or no spares, would be an even dafter idea!)

 

[skyhigh]

Not daily, though? Doing it on an occasional, random basis is one thing, testing X drivers/guards each day is quite another (and testing even more on Monday, when presumably there will be few or no spares, would be an even dafter idea!)

No, you're right, it's just occasional but it is random (and yes, I suspect it is unlikely to happen on Monday for the reason you give!)

 

[banjo125]

If concerns are raised about someone's fitness for duty (& a manager also thinks so) I'm fairly certain they will be tested, regardless of what that does to the service as a result

 

[Horizon22]

I think managers and HR are incompetent, as it is them that have allowed these situations to occur in the first place. Where drivers are concerned, it is the unions calling the shots, not HR/management

It’s really nothing to do with HR or even line management. There are two route causes 1) still having some companies with Sundays outside working week (and we can argue at which ‘level’ that is being held up by) and 2) a delay in cab training caused by Covid which is hardly anyone’s fault. Normally these issues are masked by Sunday overtime.

They’re more systematic than just “HR and management incompetence” although some on the railway and outside do like to blast that out every now and again.

 

[Mag_seven]

OK folks I think we are done here. The reasons for Sunday cancellations are well known and have been debated to death on other threads. Obviously tomorrow is extra exceptional due to the Euro 2020 final.

I suggest that if anyone has any travel plans for tomorrow that they consult the relevant TOC website for advice.

Thanks