Dissapointment at London Victoria today: told not to take photos

[Train Maniac]

Just a bit of a rant really.

Me and a mate went chasing the Steam dreams Christmas circular today, never seen such a load of absolute cr*p.

Hanging out towards the end of the platform, no problem, as it arrived. Walked down to take a photo of Braunton and was greeted with barriers and some seriously power hungry station staff. Apparently taking photos is a safety concern now??! We were not the only ones as another group was also being yelled at

Its a real shame to be honest, as the crew seemed to be enjoying themselves (lost of steam and whistles).

Is this the future of main line steam?

 

[alastair]

Just a bit of a rant really.

Me and a mate went chasing the Steam dreams Christmas circular today, never seen such a load of absolute cr*p.

Hanging out towards the end, no problem, as it arrived. Walked down to take a photo of Braunton and was greeted with barriers and some seriously power hungry station staff. Apparently taking photos is a safety concern now??! We were not the only ones as another group was also being yelled at

Its a real shame to be honest, as the crew seemed to be enjoying themselves (lost of steam and whistles).

Is this the future of main line steam?

That does not sound at all typical. I can recall very few issues photoing steam anywhere in recent years. If problems with trespass etc. do occur they are almost always the occasional "family come to see Flying Scotsman" types rather than steam enthusiasts.

If you encounter problems like you describe, you could always refer staff to their own Network Rail guidelines:

We welcome rail enthusiasts and passengers who would like to take photos or film at our stations.

Guidelines for taking photos at stations - Network Rail

What you need to know about photography and film at our stations to ensure a safe and enjoyable experience.

www.networkrail.co.uk

 

[1Q18]

That does not sound at all typical. I can recall very few issues photoing steam anywhere in recent years. If problems with trespass etc. do occur they are almost always the occasional "family come to see Flying Scotsman" types rather than steam enthusiasts.

If you encounter problems like you describe, you could always refer staff to their own Network Rail guidelines:

We welcome rail enthusiasts and passengers who would like to take photos or film at our stations.

Guidelines for taking photos at stations - Network Rail

What you need to know about photography and film at our stations to ensure a safe and enjoyable experience.

www.networkrail.co.uk

I don’t know how much that will persuade barrier staff who will either be TOC staff or contractors even at stations like Victoria which are managed by NR. Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of issues of late with barrier staff being insufficently trained and making up their own rules around all kinds of situations.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

One aspect of photography that might be of genuine concern (to the railway) is flash photography, especially under a station roof, with other trains still running in/out. It could be a distraction for other drivers. That said, if that is the case, surely it should be explained by staff on hand - keep everything polite etc

 

[Teaboy1]

Exact same OTT responses by BTP and HiViz brigade at Lincoln Central 2022 when Duchess arrived for Xmas Market special.
Barriers put on platform behind support coach to prevent any access near loco, BTP insisted everyone behind yellow line EVEN on adjacent platforms and photographers herded away from platform ends even though no services stood at platforms.
Totally spoilt a day to see Duchess at platform level at Lincoln.
Bully boy mentality.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Apparently taking photos is a safety concern now??! We were not the only ones as another group was also being yelled at

I think it’s a safety concern if you use flash when taking them, as I believe it can cause driver distraction.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Is this the future of main line steam?

I just hope it’s not.

 

[DDB]

Exact same OTT responses by BTP and HiViz brigade at Lincoln Central 2022 when Duchess arrived for Xmas Market special.
Barriers put on platform behind support coach to prevent any access near loco, BTP insisted everyone behind yellow line EVEN on adjacent platforms and photographers herded away from platform ends even though no services stood at platforms.
Totally spoilt a day to see Duchess at platform level at Lincoln.
Bully boy mentality.

I am neither station staff or a photographer but my sympathy is with the station staff based purely on your report.

I have been to Lincoln on a Christmas Market day and the station is heaving and needs a huge amount of management to try and keep the travelling public safe and manage the queues. The last thing they need on a busy and stressful day is extra people who don't need to be there getting in the way.

By your own admission you were were being reluctant to comply with the standard requirements for everyone to keep behind the yellow line of all platforms at all times. This is even specifically covered in the network rail guidance quoted earlier in this thread.

It sounds like BTP had to be diverted from dealing with the main crowds to move you on and sounds to me as in impartial observer you had a poor attitude to the staff who are trying to keep everyone safe.

 

[Lucan]

One aspect of photography that might be of genuine concern (to the railway) is flash photography

The guidelines linked in Post #2 fobid flash explicitly. Ironically, snapshot type cameras are more likely to have built-in flash, and that it will operate automatically in lower light, while more professional type cameras do not. Yet it has been found that staff are more likely to object to your using a professional level camera than a snapshot one.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Basically, don't use a tripod if you don't have to, don't act like a nerd and you should be fine. I use a professional camera and very rarely get stopped

 

[Train Maniac]

Yeahhh.... i use my phone with no flash and no tripod, so that definitely wasnt the problem.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Yet it has been found that staff are more likely to object to your using a professional level camera than a snapshot one.

There was a time when being seen to be using a more 'professional' looking camera/long lens, could get one the wrong response from 'officialdom'. Was a victim of that myself, albeit not in a railway environment. There was/is I guess a fear of uninvited media involvement (good or bad) in such cases, but in todays world when most phones have better quality photo features than my early SLR camera's, it is hard to imagine officious types taking the time to judge who is a 'happy snapper' and who poses a possible threat from Press or such?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Has anyone actually asked the OP if they were using either a tripod or a flash?

As they said they just walked down the platform, it doesn't sound like they had a tripod with them. They also sound like experienced enthusiasts, so would be likely to already be aware of the need to avoid flash.

Could @Train Maniac confirm these two points, please?

 

[RPM]

I'm a bit divided on this. It drives me mad when station staff make up their own random "rules" on photography and it keeps happening, time and time again. I was accosted at Charing Cross a couple of years ago for the heinous crime of taking a quick shot of the station clock whilst I waited for my train. On the other hand, mainline steam is absolutely notorious for attracting crowds of people with no knowledge of, or no desire to comply with basic safety protocols, so understandably, staff can be a lot more wary and less flexible when steam is about.

 

[Train Maniac]

Has anyone actually asked the OP if they were using either a tripod or a flash?

As they said they just walked down the platform, it doesn't sound like they had a tripod with them. They also sound like experienced enthusiasts, so would be likely to already be aware of the need to avoid flash.

Could @Train Maniac confirm these two points, please?

Hi
I pointed out this was not the case 2 posts above yours. When asked 'Why not?' the only answer they could come up with was 'Its for safety reasons'

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Hi
I pointed out this was not the case 2 posts above yours. When asked 'Why not?' the only answer they could come up with was 'Its for safety reasons'

I see it now; for some reason the post didn't show to me.

 

[Trackman]

So, they had barriers before the loco on the platform?

 

[Train Maniac]

So, they had barriers before the loco on the platform?

Correct. In contrast to 10 minutes prior to arrival, when passing through ticket barriers to platform 7 like usual.

 

[Trackman]

Correct. In contrast to 10 minutes prior to arrival, when passing through ticket barriers to platform 7 like usual.

How strange, never seen this before.
Hope this doesn't become a norm.

 

[Russel]

Will always be some staff that like to make up their own rules.

I've actually noticed over the last couple of years that I've had no issues at all, I thought the approach to photography had mellowed, I may have just been lucky but to be fair, I don't tend to hang around on stations for very long, I'll grab the photos I want then move on.

I've also developed a more confident look and generally care less about putting someone in their place if I was approached, than a few years ago.

 

[87electric]

Maybe there has been a new directive issued to platform staff about photography. I asked for permission today at Peterborough to enter the platforms to undertake an hour of photography, which was granted, but for the first time ever I was asked if it was for publication reasons.

 

[LBMPSB]

The biggest issue in today social media evironment is the fact that so many people photograph/video trains not for private content but to put on social media. In a lot of cases they are making money from what they produce. The railway see this as commercial usage, which in their guidelines is prohibited with out permission. People need to be civil. We are no longer in the old days where people took responsiblity for themselves, their own safety. Now people blame others for the own misfortunes and as such, companies have to ensure everyone's safety. I have no problems with station staff. When they approach I am always civil and if they want me to leave I leave. It is not my right to be there and take photos.

The OP mentions barriers put up to stop them going to photograph the steam engine, very unusual. Did they not think that maybe the barriers have been put there for another reason, maybe safety related and the railway didn't want people getting to near whatever the problem is. People get so negative when they do not get their own way. When station staff approach instead of being civil to someone who is responsible for the safe running of the station, they get defensive and aggressive when they have no right to.

As for station staff making up random rules. It is their station not ours. They may have valid reason for rejecting you one day and not the next, and they do not have to explain why either. There maybe security reasons, heightened alerts, VIPs in the area, safety issues, anything that you may well not be aware off and do not necessarilly have to be told about.

 

[CarrotPie]

As for station staff making up random rules. It is their station not ours. They may have valid reason for rejecting you one day and not the next, and they do not have to explain why either. There maybe security reasons, heightened alerts, VIPs in the area, safety issues, anything that you may well not be aware off and do not necessarilly have to be told about.

In which case they're not "making up random rules", are they‽

 

[Train Maniac]

The OP mentions barriers put up to stop them going to photograph the steam engine, very unusual. Did they not think that maybe the barriers have been put there for another reason, maybe safety related and the railway didn't want people getting to near whatever the problem is.

OK, so i ask again, what safety related reasons?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

OK, so i ask again, what safety related reasons?

Children (in particular) too interested in the loco; not paying attention and falling down between the loco and the platform?

 

[Titfield]

Children (in particular) too interested in the loco; not paying attention and falling down between the loco and the platform?

or as you increasingly see, people taking selfies and walking backwards as they do so.

 

[Train Maniac]

Children (in particular) too interested in the loco; not paying attention and falling down between the loco and the platform?

This might just be my autism playing up so bear with me....

i agree that people are not always the brightest when it comes to personal safety, but it seems a bit hysterical to ban all photography? This is including from behind the ticket barrier line as i did on the return trip in the evening and resulted in getting yelled at again (i must point out it wasnt just me and my mate that were supposedly breaking the rules). What i struggle to grasp with is the approach of blanket ban on photography to prevent the stupid minority from hurting themselves, otherwise whats the point in running a steam loco in the first place?

 

[Bletchleyite]

whats the point in running a steam loco in the first place?

It's run for the benefit of those riding on the train and paying to do so, not for the benefit of photographers who contribute nothing at all to the running costs of it.

 

[CarrotPie]

It's run for the benefit of those riding on the train and paying to do so, not for the benefit of photographers who contribute nothing at all to the running costs of it.

Free publicity?

 

[Horizon22]

Was this Platform 1/2 at Victoria - there are some serious safety concerns down the far end (even at mid-way point really) of the platform where it gets very narrow and can get really overcrowded. That's all I can think of - if you were far enough back then it should have been OK. There have certainly been some close calls before with people getting way too close and being unaware of their surroundings; the minority can spoil it for the majority unfortunately.