Diversions to alternative London terminals

[cle]

Not a diversion as such, but there used to be a scheduled service for a Wales and West Class 158 into and out of Waterloo. I don't think it lasted many years (if that). Certainly an unusual service though.

These survived in spirit, in the Waterloo-Bristol services. Rarely used end to end, but the main London services for Warminster, Trowbridge and Bradford.

 

[Class 170101]

I think C2C use Liverpool Street at certain times.

Not a diversion. Part of the regular timetable on certain times/days.

It is part of the regular timetable but you will see situations where Fenchurch Street is closed for engineering works and more services and a different train plan operates with greater frequency of service.

 

[IanXC]

I was on Doncaster station 2 years ago and there were no trains running to Kings Cross due to engineering works. A Hull Trains IET (which had a door problem for an hour) was booked to work to Liverpool Street. I believe it turned round at Cambridge in the end due to running so late.

I'm fairly sure Hull Trains haven't been to Liverpool Street since the 170 days, and their IET fleet entered service on 5 December 2019.

 

[Steve Harris]

These survived in spirit, in the Waterloo-Bristol services. Rarely used end to end, but the main London services for Warminster, Trowbridge and Bradford.

Thanx for the info.

I'm fairly sure Hull Trains haven't been to Liverpool Street since the 170 days, and their IET fleet entered service on 5 December 2019.

If I remember correctly there was a discussion in one of the threads on here about trains diverting to Liverpool when the south of the East Cost Mainline was closed for engineering works and it was stated that any trains which were diverted were only planned to run as far as Cambridge. Unfortunately I currently can't find the thread.

 

[paul1609]

These survived in spirit, in the Waterloo-Bristol services. Rarely used end to end, but the main London services for Warminster, Trowbridge and Bradford.

Theres probably more end to end traffic than youd imagine. If your going to Bath or Bristol and you come in to London via Waterloo East; Kent, East Sussex and Southeast London the direct SWR trains are only 10 to 15 mins longer once you take in to account the minimum Charing Cross to Paddington interchange, the fares are a lot more reasonable.

 

[dk1]

I'm fairly sure Hull Trains haven't been to Liverpool Street since the 170 days, and their IET fleet entered service on 5 December 2019.

Certainly did. Went via Ely & the WAML. Particularly convenient when they where worked by AR crews based at Liverpool Street.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Do all London Terminals (in theory at least) have an alternative London Terminal that can be used, rather than services stopping short, and then using a bus or alternative mode of transport for the final leg, or TOCs telling passengers to use a different operator.

 

[The Planner]

Do all London Terminals (in theory at least) have an alternative London Terminal that can be used, rather than services stopping short, and then using a bus or alternative mode of transport for the final leg, or TOCs telling passengers to use a different operator.

In theory yes, in reality no, as unless the TOCs keep up diversionary knowledge it generally isn't feasible and you would run into difficulties of actually carrying a decent amount of people. In a lot of cases you would also probably have to knock out un-affected services to allow diversions to run.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

In theory yes, in reality no, as unless the TOCs keep up diversionary knowledge it generally isn't feasible and you would run into difficulties of actually carrying a decent amount of people. In a lot of cases you would also probably have to knock out un-affected services to allow diversions to run.

Yeah only really GTR and Southeastern have a whole host of London terminals they can divert to if one is blocked relatively easily.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do all London Terminals (in theory at least) have an alternative London Terminal that can be used, rather than services stopping short, and then using a bus or alternative mode of transport for the final leg, or TOCs telling passengers to use a different operator.

I don’t think SWR can easily use another London terminal. Yes I suppose theoretically you can reach Victoria from the Windsor side of Clapham Junction, but I don’t recall it ever being done in practice. Likewise the mainline side via Wimbledon can only theoretically get onto the Thameslink route, it’s not really got the network capacity to take any trains though...

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I don’t think SWR can easily use another London terminal. Yes I suppose theoretically you can reach Victoria from the Windsor side of Clapham Junction, but I don’t recall it ever being done in practice. Likewise the mainline side via Wimbledon can only theoretically get onto the Thameslink route, it’s not really got the network capacity to take any trains though...

I think Waterloo station is large enough, that its very rare for Waterloo to be completely blocked for an entire weekend. And the route to reach Victoria from the windsor side requires you to go via the Ludgates, and the down the Battersea Reversible, not a route that will have much capacity at all. It would actually be easier do divert via the Ludgates and Atlantic Lines and head towards Londojn Blackfriars or London Bridge, not that that diversionary route will ever happen either.

 

[yorksrob]

Where did Waterloo services terminate during the recent blockade ?

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Kensington Olympia was also used for WCML diversions in the 1960s (and became London's Motorail terminal).

When Eurostar served Waterloo, Olympia was the designated alternative station in times of disruption. It had basic custom / border facilities built, although I don’t think that they were ever used in anger.

 

[swt_passenger]

Where did Waterloo services terminate during the recent blockade ?

Do you mean for the major platform alterations? Back in 2017 it was only half the main station closed, with the 5 former international platforms opened temporarily. A reduced timetable was operated for a few weeks.

 

[yorksrob]

Do you mean for the major platform alterations? Back in 2017 it was only half the main station closed, with the 5 former international platforms opened temporarily. A reduced timetable was operated for a few weeks.

Ah cheers. Wasn't there an occasion last year when it was closed during lockdown ?

 

[swt_passenger]

Ah cheers. Wasn't there an occasion last year when it was closed during lockdown ?

There was a heavily advertised block of the Windsor side approaches Christmas & New Year just gone, but it still wasn’t a full closure, a limited mainline service still got through. IIRC there were still about 12 platforms available at Waterloo, but Queenstown Rd and Vauxhall were completely closed.

 

[yorksrob]

There was a heavily advertised block of the Windsor side approaches Christmas & New Year just gone, but it still wasn’t a full closure, a limited mainline service still got through. IIRC there were still about 12 platforms available at Waterloo, but Queenstown Rd and Vauxhall were completely closed.

Cheers. That must be what I was thinking of.

 

[IanXC]

Thanx for the info.


If I remember correctly there was a discussion in one of the threads on here about trains diverting to Liverpool when the south of the East Cost Mainline was closed for engineering works and it was stated that any trains which were diverted were only planned to run as far as Cambridge. Unfortunately I currently can't find the thread.

99% certain that was never going to be Hull Trains though. In fact I think the weekends in question they went to St Pancras via the whole MML.

 

[jfollows]

Kensington Olympia was also used for WCML diversions in the 1960s (and became London's Motorail terminal).

Kensington Olympia was my local station in the summer of 1983, and it was interesting. My family was abroad so I had no reason to go home for the holiday and instead rented cheap accommodation from Imperial College in the vicinity. Plus a job as a contract computer operator in West Croydon.
Two really long platforms on passing loops which were hardly used at all, the relics of the motorail infrastructure I'm sure included a couple of bays too.
There were a few passenger trains going through each day by then, but they didn't call at Olympia.
There was a morning and afternoon shuttle to/from Clapham Junction booked for 33+4-TC but could produce 73+4-TC or even stranger things. I used these when my shift matched, otherwise I went to work by bus, train from Victoria or train from Holborn Viaduct for the variety (the latter because the Central line from Shepherd's Bush was an easy change).
There was a booking office but I can't remember what hours it was open, but even when it was I don't expect it got much passing trade - I'd expect most of the passengers had season tickets anyway.
In 1983 it wasn't really in a "desirable" part of London, although it was close to those that were. I lived almost in Shepherd's Bush which certainly wasn't.
Funny for me to see it these days .... things change!

 

[MotCO]

When Eurostar served Waterloo, Olympia was the designated alternative station in times of disruption. It had basic custom / border facilities built, although I don’t think that they were ever used in anger.

What is the current diversion terminus for Eurostar?

 

[Watershed]

What is the current diversion terminus for Eurostar?

There isn't one. The 373s have had their third rail equipment removed and traincrew don't sign into anywhere except St Pancras.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What is the current diversion terminus for Eurostar?

Would they just terminate at Stratford?

 

[MotCO]

There isn't one. The 373s have had their third rail equipment removed and traincrew don't sign into anywhere except St Pancras.

So if there is an unplanned obstruction on the line, then presumably it is back to Ashford for connecting trains / coaches? I believe Stratford is not set up for international trains or turnrounds.

What happens at the other end if Gard du Nord or Midi is closed?

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

There isn't one. The 373s have had their third rail equipment removed and traincrew don't sign into anywhere except St Pancras.

Whilst the 374s would be well out of gauge for anything apart from HS1 and St Pancras on this side of the Channel. Could Ebbsfleet cope with a terminating train?

 

[paul1609]

So if there is an unplanned obstruction on the line, then presumably it is back to Ashford for connecting trains / coaches? I believe Stratford is not set up for international trains or turnrounds.

What happens at the other end if Gard du Nord or Midi is closed?

Both Ebbsfleet and Ashford (and Calais Frethun) are closed to International traffic for the foreseeable future, the customs and passport staff have moved elsewhere. Even in normal times at Ashford if HS1 is closed the normally 2tph 8 car service to Charing Cross struggles to cope with domestic passengers let alone 16 car Eurostars terminating there. Likewise theres not a huge number of coaches waiting around to be hired.

 

[yorksrob]

Both Ebbsfleet and Ashford (and Calais Frethun) are closed to International traffic for the foreseeable future, the customs and passport staff have moved elsewhere. Even in normal times at Ashford if HS1 is closed the normally 2tph 8 car service to Charing Cross struggles to cope with domestic passengers let alone 16 car Eurostars terminating there. Likewise theres not a huge number of coaches waiting around to be hired.

I'm sure I remember reading on one occasion they all had to detrain at Ashford and get a domestic service. Can't remember what the incident was.

 

[Omnishambles]

c2c timetabled into Liverpool Street
Chiltern timetabled into Paddington with a High Wycombe service until recently
Wales and West used to run a 00xx Fishguard-Waterloo with (IIRC) a 2 car cl.158, returning west at 05xx
Hull Trains timetabled into St.Pancras during KingsX blocks
FGW timetabled from Paddington via Greenford, Chiltern lines to Banbury (Rev) and to SWales/Bristol during Reading work. Also timetabled into Waterloo with selected West Country services if I remember right
Southeastern timetabled into Waterloo international platforms during engineering work (can’t remember which)
Caledonian Sleepers either timetabled into KingsX or via ECML, KingsX incline and Camden Rd, reverse on the Up/Dn Goods at Wembley and into Euston.. Still regular during the year
....and these are just the timetabled ones I can think of. Also remember BR days when at the drop of a hat trains would be able to divert at Nuneaton via Leicester to St.Pancras or Coventry via Didcot to Paddington if there was disruption on the WCML, and via Bletchley/Bedford from Euston if there was disruption south of Bedford on the MML

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

So if there is an unplanned obstruction on the line, then presumably it is back to Ashford for connecting trains / coaches? I believe Stratford is not set up for international trains or turnrounds.

What happens at the other end if Gard du Nord or Midi is closed?

I remember hearing that Gare St Lazare is the dedicated diversion terminal in Paris, if I remember correctly.

 

[paul1609]

I'm sure I remember reading on one occasion they all had to detrain at Ashford and get a domestic service. Can't remember what the incident was.

Yes it has happened when hs1 was closed in an emergency, two eurostars were diverted in to Ashford but it took nearly 4 hours to clear the passengers which is why its not a planned diversion.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes it has happened when hs1 was closed in an emergency, two eurostars were diverted in to Ashford but it took nearly 4 hours to clear the passengers which is why its not a planned diversion.

Ouch. That's a long time !