Do rail fares need to be made simpler?

[MikeWh]

Why is that not possible?

Because no TOC has set fares for the journey?

 

[A Challenge]

Because no TOC has set fares for the journey?

But why not?

 

[yorkie]

But why not?

A lack of competence? You'd have to ask them, but good luck getting an honest answer!

 

[najaB]

A lack of competence? You'd have to ask them, but good luck getting an honest answer!

An oversight doesn't necessarily equate to a lack of competence.

 

[yorkie]

I wasn't stating it was necessarily a lack of competence, but Northern have been aware of it since at least March 2015.

 

[47271]

Are we maybe overthinking this a little?

The case that prompted the OP was an excessive First Class fare from St Austell to London. Aren't all GWR First Class fares excessive? This is the one TOC where I refuse to pay what they ask for First, split or no split, and look how empty their First Class sections are. They get ever smaller and ever emptier as the years go by.

Okay, I'd refuse to pay what Cross Country ask for First, but in general I'd sooner go on my hands and knees than use Cross Country in either class.

GWR's dim with it. I would happily pay and claim £45 or £50 to go First Bristol to Paddington at, say, 8pm. But no, they ask £85. Too much, you'd never pay that between Manchester and London at that time of night. So I pay £30 (these are figures I'm doing from memory) and sit in a nasty overlit cramped airline seat with four other people in the carriage, and not a soul in First. GWR has needlessly done itself out of £20.

I'm not saying that there are no flaws in pricing overall, but eye watering fares in GWR First Class probably isn't the best place to illustrate the larger problem from.

 

[Starmill]

Aren't all GWR First Class fares excessive? This is the one TOC where I refuse to pay what they ask for First, split or no split, and look how empty their First Class sections are. They get ever smaller and ever emptier as the years go by.

Really? What about if you were travelling from Truro to Plymouth and back on the same day? First Class has a lovely ambiance, and includes some complimentary refreshments which can be collected from the buffet. Although it's only a journey of about an hour and a quarter there is a good selection of trains with First Class. It's £22.80 in First Class, against £10.40 in standard class.

Surely you're not going to tell me that's a ridiculous fare? And it's not as if this is a minor flow that only a small number of people will want to travel on.

 

[47271]

Really? What about if you were travelling from Truro to Plymouth and back on the same day? First Class has a lovely ambiance, and includes some complimentary refreshments which can be collected from the buffet. Although it's only a journey of about an hour and a quarter there is a good selection of trains with First Class. It's £22.80 in First Class, against £10.40 in standard class.

Surely you're not going to tell me that's a ridiculous fare? And it's not as if this is a minor flow that only a small number of people will want to travel on.

I don't know about Truro to Plymouth, that isn't a journey I'd ever need to make. If it cost £2 in First Class then I'd still not be the in right place at the right time to enjoy it. If it's as affordable as you describe then I'm both surprised and delighted, that isn't the GWR I know.

I agree that their First Class ambience is great, but my direct experience of their First Class fares is that they're uncommercially high off peak between London and Bristol, London and Cardiff, and London and Exeter, so every time I pay Standard and walk past an empty First section.

The OP complained of an excessive First Class fare between Snozzel and Paddington, so you can see why I made the connection.

 

[6Gman]

I forgot about dwell times. In that case barrier ALL stations and not these half sized ones either. Full body height barriers. Stations where only one train/day or less to be shut. That'll solve the need for no penalty fare

Can I apply for a gateline position at Roman Bridge please?

 

[Starmill]

I don't know about Truro to Plymouth, that isn't a journey I'd ever need to make. If it cost £2 in First Class then I'd still not be the in right place at the right time to enjoy it. If it's as affordable as you describe then I'm both surprised and delighted, that isn't the GWR I know.

You referred to all GWR First Class fares, and there are lots of journeys similarly good value to Truro to Plymouth. Even Plymouth to Exeter is only £27.80 for a First Off-Peak Day Return.

 

[Richard_B]

You referred to all GWR First Class fares, and there are lots of journeys similarly good value to Truro to Plymouth. Even Plymouth to Exeter is only £27.80 for a First Off-Peak Day Return.

Except that the standard class fare is 9.50. So a near trebling of price for the privilege of 1st. And it's valid on exactly the same trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? What about if you were travelling from Truro to Plymouth and back on the same day? First Class has a lovely ambiance, and includes some complimentary refreshments which can be collected from the buffet. Although it's only a journey of about an hour and a quarter there is a good selection of trains with First Class. It's £22.80 in First Class, against £10.40 in standard class.

Surely you're not going to tell me that's a ridiculous fare? And it's not as if this is a minor flow that only a small number of people will want to travel on.

It's too expensive. The appropriate multiplier is what it is in most of Europe - somewhere around 1.6.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can I apply for a gateline position at Roman Bridge please?

I do think there needs to be two types of station and service - that kind of service could be a PayTrain with purchase always allowed on board.

 

[najaB]

I do think there needs to be two types of station and service - that kind of service could be a PayTrain with purchase always allowed on board.

And what would somewhere like Ladybank be, seeing as it sees both local stoppers and long-distance expresses?

 

[Busaholic]

.

In a perfect world go for the Netherlands model of pricing per km (probably mile here).

That would be the fairest system and so, a bit like democracy, could be described as the least worst system. Being the fairest, the chances of it being introduced are less than zero of course.