Does britian have a problem with alcohol + solutions

[Yew]

Hey all, I had a bit of a debate goin gin anothe thread (tesco one) and thought it would b best to make it its own topic, so as not to hijak it

 

[yorksrob]

Yes it does. £3 a pint is far too expensive.

 

[N Levers]

Yes it does. £3 a pint is far too expensive.

lol. Not quite sure that's what was meant.

 

[Yew]

Yes it does. £3 a pint is far too expensive.

Ill give you that one ^^ must be terrible down south/in london I cna get a pint of festival ale for 1.89 up in the midlands from wetherspoons. I dont dare think of what it will be in centre of london

 

[LexyBoy]

Ill give you that one ^^ must be terrible down south/in london I cna get a pint of festival ale for 1.89 up in the midlands from wetherspoons. I dont dare think of what it will be in centre of london

Not too different if you can find yourself a Spoons or Sam Smiths

I'm of the opinion that we're pretty good at drinking as a nation- it's part of the celtic/nordic culture and won't disappear no matter how many boozers turn into Starbucks or Macdonalds. We'll just be a nation of lardy, diabetic drunks Oh, wait...

 

[mumrar]

I think a lot of Britons have a complex and dangerous relationship with alcohol. Town and city centres of a weekend are particularly ghastly places to be. I don't agree with the notion that one has to drink to be a character or be fun.

I don't particularly enjoy the taste, price or effects of alcohol which is why I stick to water and juices.

 

[Oswyntail]

Actually, I think there is a problem. I am an occasional drinker, but prefer a) fruit juice and b) quieter environments than pubs. But, showing those bizarre preferences, I am labelled as "anti-social". IMHO, this is because so much of leisure time activity in this country is centred round pubs and booze. If you want to go out and meet a few friends sociably in the evening, what else is there? In other countries you have cafes and coffee bars, where you can buy what you like, and sit in pleasant surroundings. And it is worse for those younger than 18. There is so little provision of social environments for them that they are almost driven into pubs.
And don't get me started on the delights of touring our major cities in the evenings, when they are filled with normal people who, after a couple of jars, think loud-mouthed boorishness is either witty or acceptable. No, i think we do have an alcohol problem in our culture, and other countries seem to handle it much better.

 

[anthony263]

i agree that this country has a problem with alcohal. This situation isnt helped by adults
buying booze for children and not having good parenting skills. i have seen kids as young as 11 drinking and they are out of control half the time.

slighly off topic but i do think they need to change the law so that its ok to give these kids a clip round the ear, i have had a brink thrown at the bus window yet i know i cant get hold of these kids as either their parents come storming out like holligons or you are being nicked by the police or sued

 

[Old Timer]

Part of the issue is that we drink pints as opposed to the rest of the world who generally drink glasses (330ml as against 500ml).

We are also a nation who have an underlying aggession, which seems to come out in drink with some people.

Anti-social behaviour also seems to fester in a society where the original concepts of family and social responsibility have been cast aside in favour of more "modern" concepts - usually sold by sandal wearing, bearded shorts wearing intellectuals (and that's just the women ) high on a belief that everyone holds similarly high ideals.

Years ago young men started drinking in pubs where their elders were present, and soon learnt to control themselves. I remember myself and my peers being under a beady eye of two when we first started out. Loud behaviour was quickly stilled by a harsh word from one of the assembled and people learnt how to behave and operate.

Nowadays everyone is full of their "rights" but lack any concept of their personal duties and responsibilities, both to themselves, to other individuals/groups, and to society in general.

Add to that an untamed latent aggression that some people carry around with them, and City and Town centres can become less welcoming late at nights particularly at weekends.

I remember locations where we would go alone, but which now are either not visited or if they have to be are visited by a group not an individual.

In one City of Culture, I recall the Site access manager having to lock themselves in the cabin with a radio and a telephone because of the threat from drunks and ne'er do wells. In the same City we actually had to withdraw them because the risk of being shot was too high following a robbery at a local petrol station one saturday night where the robbers actually tried to take shelter in the cabin.

I do not have an answer but I can only compare and contrast to where I now am - where none of these social problem seem to be present, outside of the very obvious slum areas. You can certainly walk around the cities here at night without being acosted by groups of drunken youths looking for trouble.

 

[SS4]

Actually, I think there is a problem. I am an occasional drinker, but prefer a) fruit juice and b) quieter environments than pubs. But, showing those bizarre preferences, I am labelled as "anti-social". IMHO, this is because so much of leisure time activity in this country is centred round pubs and booze.

That is unfortunately true.

If you want to go out and meet a few friends sociably in the evening, what else is there? In other countries you have cafes and coffee bars, where you can buy what you like, and sit in pleasant surroundings. And it is worse for those younger than 18. There is so little provision of social environments for them that they are almost driven into pubs.

In turn leading to bored youths looking for something to do which is often antisocial behaviour or attention seeking. When I was in my teens I used to play football on a reasonable sized patch of grass nearby. Now though it's a couple of houses so today's kids can't go and do that.
In our country I also think we have a live fast mentality possibly via stress which would also relate to obesity.

And don't get me started on the delights of touring our major cities in the evenings, when they are filled with normal people who, after a couple of jars, think loud-mouthed boorishness is either witty or acceptable. No, i think we do have an alcohol problem in our culture, and other countries seem to handle it much better.

I agree. If anything there needs to be a campaign which vilifies being drunk in public in the same way drink driving is now vilified

I think a lot of Britons have a complex and dangerous relationship with alcohol. Town and city centres of a weekend are particularly ghastly places to be. I don't agree with the notion that one has to drink to be a character or be fun.

I don't particularly enjoy the taste, price or effects of alcohol which is why I stick to water and juices.

I tend to drink some alcohol but rarely to excess (that is I would need to control frequency rather than amount). One doesn't have to drink to be fun yet a lowering of inhibitions that comes with a few (literally) can ease conversation. I'm much easier to talk to when I've had a drink.

Part of the issue is that we drink pints as opposed to the rest of the world who generally drink glasses (330ml as against 500ml).

568ml
I do think that beer should be available (if not exclusively) in metric. A half litre is less than a pint. Unfortunately UKIP et al will see it as more intrusion by Brussels

We are also a nation who have an underlying aggession, which seems to come out in drink with some people.

True in part, we also work the longest hours in Europe. I shan't be surprised if the notion of doing something quickly is applied to drink.

Anti-social behaviour also seems to fester in a society where the original concepts of family and social responsibility have been cast aside in favour of more "modern" concepts - usually sold by sandal wearing, bearded shorts wearing intellectuals (and that's just the women ) high on a belief that everyone holds similarly high ideals.

Generalisation prize 1 goes to you. Anti-social behaviour is largely environmental yet old Conservatives like yourself are essentially criminalising the youth you will get a backlash. A perfect self-fulfilling promise.
No doubt much to you chagrin women can vote, those without property can vote, those 18-21 can vote and we accept those with different beliefs (especially in regard to religion). It's not that those of the left (in your opinion probably controlled by Lucifer) are infecting all children with mind viruses (ironically that's the church). I wonder if you'll be celebrating the May Bank Holiday that your worker brothers earned?

Anti-social behaviour is far more complex although often it's a need for attention that is a cause. The "original concepts of family and social responsibility have been cast aside" because both parents have to work long hours under heavy stress simply to provide for their children. Alcohol has long been used as a stress reliever and monkey see, monkey do.

Years ago young men started drinking in pubs where their elders were present, and soon learnt to control themselves. I remember myself and my peers being under a beady eye of two when we first started out. Loud behaviour was quickly stilled by a harsh word from one of the assembled and people learnt how to behave and operate.

Again, lack of time. At 22 (I'm slightly outside the generation the media criminalises) I cannot verify whether what you say is true but it certainly reminds me of the stereotypical "back in my day..."

Nowadays everyone is full of their "rights" but lack any concept of their personal duties and responsibilities, both to themselves, to other individuals/groups, and to society in general.

True to an extent (especially chavs) but by no means universal.

Add to that an untamed latent aggression that some people carry around with them, and City and Town centres can become less welcoming late at nights particularly at weekends.

True

I remember locations where we would go alone, but which now are either not visited or if they have to be are visited by a group not an individual.

People and places change, get over it!

I do not have an answer but I can only compare and contrast to where I now am - where none of these social problem seem to be present, outside of the very obvious slum areas. You can certainly walk around the cities here at night without being acosted by groups of drunken youths looking for trouble.

Compare and contrast. By the way may I borrow your rose tinted glasses? I need cheering up. If only I had the money to skip the country!

 

[Aictos]

I don't mind the odd tipple but I prefer soft drinks, you can still have a good night out without drinking yourself senseless.

 

[Old Timer]

568ml .

If you wish to be pedantic then so be it - it must be the weather :roll: But I think everyone knew what was meant.

For clarity then, bottles/cans for sale in the UK are 330ml and 500ml which is the nearest comparison that can be made to abroad where a pint has no relevance.

Many foreign Countries sell in 275ml or 330ml, depending where you are, which means in theory people tend to drink less and slower. We still have a guzzle culture in the UK.

As for the rest of your Political rant, you really do talk cobblers. Like your fellow traveller on here, you seem to be incapable of understanding that anyone who does not hold your Socialist values is not by definition a Conservative. Clearly by your writing and logic you are a child of Bliar's failed educational system, as your age also testifies to.

I will leave others to judge the remaining comments, and the background to them.

Little hint - the smilie used has a purpose. You clearly do not understand the niceties of the tongue in cheek, and for someone of 22 so much angst. Just a shame you can't blame it on Mrs Thatcher, eh ? (Note the smilie by the way)

 

[SS4]

If you wish to be pedantic then so be it - it must be the weather :roll: But I think everyone knew what was meant.

Sorry, I'm a product of Bliar's [sic] education system.

Many foreign Countries sell in 275ml or 330ml, depending where you are, which means in theory people tend to drink less and slower. We still have a guzzle culture in the UK.

That is true

As for the rest of your Political rant, you really do talk cobblers. Like your fellow traveller on here, you seem to be incapable of understanding that anyone who does not hold your Socialist values is not by definition a Conservative. Clearly by your writing and logic you are a child of Bliar's failed educational system, as your age also testifies to.

Who is my fellow traveller? I'd like to take my hat off to them.

Right, I'm uneducated because I hold left-wing views. I suspect you're referring to me as a product of Bliar's [sic] education system to shore up your own insecurity about how today's children are actually doing well. My last point about today's adults almost criminalising children or at the very least putting them down, above you're implying that the exam system is flawed since results are getting better, not worse.

I will leave others to judge the remaining comments, and the background to them.

Here's hoping.

Little hint - the smilie used has a purpose. You clearly do not understand the niceties of the tongue in cheek, and for someone of 22 so much angst. Just a shame you can't blame it on Mrs Thatcher, eh ? (Note the smilie by the way)

I know what the smilie used means. I also know that parentheses indicate a sub-clause and due to the smilie being used inside, it refers to the sub-clause. If you want to talk about condescension who consistently misspells Blair as Bliar?

Cause and effect. The Falklands are British and that is due to Thatcher, just because she isn't around doesn't mean it didn't happen, I use privatised trains due to Major despite being very young at the time

Still, this is kinda off topic now

 

[Oswyntail]

... Anti-social behaviour is largely environmental ...

I don't think that is true, and the truism perhaps does more harm than good. A/S behaviour is to be found among all strata of society, and trying to explain it as being the result of "background" is both patronising (to those who do not misbehave) and likely to lead to solutions being sought in the wrong places. As others have said, it is a reaction to much more complex factors, and is the unforeseen consequence of actions that seemed good at the time.

 

[starrymarkb]

As someone who prefers conversation over a drink I find excessively drunk people annoying

 

[90019]

If you want to talk about condescension who consistently misspells Blair as Bliar?

It's a somewhat childish thing to do, and it's getting pretty tedious as well.

 

[Greenback]

Part of the issue is that we drink pints as opposed to the rest of the world who generally drink glasses (330ml as against 500ml).

We are also a nation who have an underlying aggession, which seems to come out in drink with some people.

Anti-social behaviour also seems to fester in a society where the original concepts of family and social responsibility have been cast aside in favour of more "modern" concepts - usually sold by sandal wearing, bearded shorts wearing intellectuals (and that's just the women ) high on a belief that everyone holds similarly high ideals.

Years ago young men started drinking in pubs where their elders were present, and soon learnt to control themselves. I remember myself and my peers being under a beady eye of two when we first started out. Loud behaviour was quickly stilled by a harsh word from one of the assembled and people learnt how to behave and operate.

Nowadays everyone is full of their "rights" but lack any concept of their personal duties and responsibilities, both to themselves, to other individuals/groups, and to society in general.

OT, you have pretty much hit the nail on the head there.

To add a litle contribution, in the last twenty eight years there has been a marked move towards binge drinking. When I was 16 or 17, my grandfather used to go out to the local pub three or four times a week and have three or four pints a time. ow, many people go out only once or twice a week, but get absolutely baladdered, beginning before they even leave the house, and then throwing shots down their neck as they rack up the alcohol.

Small public houses where the guvnor was always there and keeping their eye on things have been replaced by noisy, cavernous bars, patrolled by CCTV and bouncers. The incessant boom boom boom of the music can only add to the tension, and the whole experience seems to be designed only to get people as drunk as possible before they are ejected in a state of total incoherence.

It's a cultural thing. Yes, the British have always enjoyed a drink, and there have always been alcohol fuelled fights, but as a society we now also prefer 'blow outs' to moderation.

 

[justinsteam]

OT, you have pretty much hit the nail on the head there.

To add a litle contribution, in the last twenty eight years there has been a marked move towards binge drinking. When I was 16 or 17, my grandfather used to go out to the local pub three or four times a week and have three or four pints a time. ow, many people go out only once or twice a week, but get absolutely baladdered, beginning before they even leave the house, and then throwing shots down their neck as they rack up the alcohol.

Small public houses where the guvnor was always there and keeping their eye on things have been replaced by noisy, cavernous bars, patrolled by CCTV and bouncers. The incessant boom boom boom of the music can only add to the tension, and the whole experience seems to be designed only to get people as drunk as possible before they are ejected in a state of total incoherence.

It's a cultural thing. Yes, the British have always enjoyed a drink, and there have always been alcohol fuelled fights, but as a society we now also prefer 'blow outs' to moderation.

I think you've got a point.

 

[Yew]

Years ago young men started drinking in pubs where their elders were present, and soon learnt to control themselves. I remember myself and my peers being under a beady eye of two when we first started out. Loud behaviour was quickly stilled by a harsh word from one of the assembled and people learnt how to behave and operate.

I definately agree with that one, i know when I was 16 my dad started giving me a bottle at weekend (like of beer, not vodka or anything) but i know a lot of people in my area, well the words vodka stella and park come to mind. maybe having it so parents/carers can buy alcohol fro their chimdren in a public place, from the age of.....14/5/6?

These alcopops and weak foreign lagers dont help, they dont taste of alcohol, and are the starting fuel of inner city violence.

Then there is higher taxxes on alcohol, so people drink less, but they close down local puubs. so you have to go down town, into the city centre, where clubs have expensive entry fees. meaning you have to take advantae of the cheap drinks. so essensially increased taxes are making drinking from socialising, to standing in a club where you cant hear anyone. And personally I prefer sitting in a Spoons, or a real pub in my area (ideally serving mansfield dark ale) than in a club. but my friends much prefer getting 1.50 vodka from the club down the roads (an under 18 paridise, but the coctail bar in the back corner is the best place to hang out, if it did real coctails and not things with names like blue lagoon, but martini instead)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
"hree or four times a week and have three or four pints a time."

Four pints counts as binge drinking under current regulations. Is it bad when you think thats not really that much? however since you cant walk to a local pub in most places (unless its a but of a dive usually) so getting a taxi adds to your costs (fiver there, fiver back between a few of you. and then there can be problems with getting a taxi) so the current situation favors big nights out, not getting a few after work
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And I havent weven got onto the subject of bouncers and police! If anyone starts violence its often related to those guys (Thrown out Vs more polite requests to leave) and the deeply confrontational nature the police uniform has (you can see hanmdcuffs, batorns, cs spray. in years gone by, im sure some older guys will testify, all these things where cleverly concealed in pockets. However now they look more like superheroes in a utility belt

 

[Greenback]

Another thing to add about our drinking culture is that the price of alcohol when bought in the supermarket is far too low. It merely ensures that people drink more at home, rather than in the traditional and more sociable tavern.

I wonder if, as people are often already cabbaged when they arrive at a bar now, they are onditioned into believing they can behave just as they would at home? It's not so long ago that the house rules of a pub were strictly enfoced. The idea of no foul language in front of the ladies is now rather quaint, when the high street is full of tennage girls fing and blinding on a Friday and Saturday night.

As you can probably tell, I am in favour of a minimum price per unit. I also believe that reviving the local pub before they become extinct will help foster a sense of community and engender a sense of togetherness that has largely been forgotten in the last two decades.

A major step forward in the fortune sof pubs would be a repeal of acertian piece of nanny state legislation, but that is outside the scope of this thread!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I live in Munich, as you can see, the people here drink way more than in the UK and the beer is stronger. Yet there's very little alcohol related aggro, not even at Oktoberfest. How can that be?

 

[142094]

Yes it does. £3 a pint is far too expensive.

Agree with that.

Does Britiain have a problem with alcohol? No I don't think so. Britain has a problem with people that have problems with alcohol. I'm sure that the vast majority of people on this forum have a drink or two, and don't end up in a fist fight or down the local nick. And for that matter I'm sure a lot of people who go out for a drink or two during the week across the country do not end up in a fist fight or down the local nick. As usual it is a small minority that spoil it for the rest of us.

I don't agree that 20 years ago was perfect - I bet there were still fights going on then. Perhaps they may not have been as frequent as today, but they still happened.

The problem we have is that supermarkets are allowed to see alcohol as a loss leader, people tank up before going to a bar or club, drink more and then the problems start.

 

[Greenback]

I agree, as I said, there have always been alcohol fuelled dights, and there always will be.

There is a degree of nastiness that surfaces in some Brits when they have had too much booze. In my opinion, this is partly due to the draconian licencing restirctions we had for many years. It is till in our nature to guzzle, as we had to when the pubs shut at 1030! It's also to do with our desire to 'have a good time' at any cost. Too many people believe this must involve drinking so much that you can barely stand. Others don't realise how much alcohol they have consumed, due to the number of shots around these days.

 

[sprinterguy]

Historically, the number of units of alcohol consumed per head of population has lessened over the last one hundred and fifty years (AFAIK; I’ll try to track down the figures later if I have time). What has changed is the manner in which alcohol is being consumed, due to changes in social practices and encouraged by the availability of cheap, low grade alcohol from supermarkets. This isn’t particularly new though: By the sounds of it, my parents were doing exactly the same things as I do now (in the same bars, for that matter), and having to face up to the same evils that binge drinking brings out in a minority, as I’m doing thirty years later.

It is very true that British social culture is largely focused around the consumption of alcohol: In the average city centre, there seems to be a chain pub or a club on every corner. Something carried over from our Scandinavian and Celtic origins. Unfortunately, this does encourage people to drink and leaves precious few alternative options for socialising for those who would rather not. It’s a very strange past time when you think about it: Filling yourself up with a poison in order to inhibit your balance and impair logic, and then half the time losing the best part of the next day to feeling ill with a hangover!

City centres on a Friday and a Saturday night can be an intimidating prospect even for those who are anjoying a good drink. The problem is that some people lack respect or understanding for other human beings, and fail to attach any sort of significance to the consequences of their actions. Such people have an intolerance of anybody who is different to themselves, and this is heightened by alcohol consumption while the notion of actions having consequences is lessened. This can lead to an atmosphere akin to warring tribes in city centres at weekends! The undercurrent of violence that is present in British culture is something I would happily be rid of. It is quite relevant that this thread has come up now, as we are approaching two extended weekends that will serve to heighten the amount of alcohol consumption taking place.

I love a good drink. I love the taste of a good pint of ale or cider, and I enjoy the variety of flavours there are to sample. I also enjoy the mellow feeling that comes from consuming three or four pints of 5% ale or cider. I’m a confident but measured individual: I’m not sure I’d pass for outgoing, but I definitely don’t need alcohol to enhance my conversation or actions. I don’t see the point in drinking so much that you don’t remember the evening the day after, or that you are reduced to a slurring, incoherent idiot. But having a few drinks, and being silly with a good group of friends, is very entertaining.

 

[LexyBoy]

Years ago young men started drinking in pubs where their elders were present, and soon learnt to control themselves. I remember myself and my peers being under a beady eye of two when we first started out. Loud behaviour was quickly stilled by a harsh word from one of the assembled and people learnt how to behave and operate.

Agreed (before my time, but the general principle...) - drinking should be done in a social environment. Speaking with my CAMRA hat on, I’ll put myself in favour of a minimum per-unit price for alcohol (around £1/unit) which would put pubs on a par with drinking at home/in the park. In fact, I’d go further and say that there should be a premium put on the off trade (to counter the higher running costs of licensed premises), and tighter requirements on pubs to keep their punters in order.

I also think the crusade against under-18s drinking is backfiring, since it just results in the youth drinking outside of any supervision and amongst their peers, where there will always be pressure to drink more or behave stupidly. In the US where it’s even more tightly controlled the situation is worse because most young people will be at college/uni by the time they are allowed to drink and so with no parents or other elders to answer to – hence the carnage of spring break, frat parties etc. If it were more accepted that u18s can get the occasional drink in at the pub (I’m under 30 and the pub nearest my school 6th form was full of pupils & the odd teacher after 1530) I feel there would be a lot more sensible drinking. Perhaps something like in France where there are two ages (beer/wine at 16 and spirits at 18) – though I’d have 16-18s allowed to drink in pubs but not buy take-away booze until 18+. Or something

</rant>

 

[SS4]

I wouldn't like to see a minimum price per unit (because I'm tight) but I think, if suitably set, it would help say around 30-50p a unit.

One advantage the supermarkets have though is range, it's rare I can get the Swedish cider I like (Rekorderlig) in pubs and Kopparberg (my second choice) is only really available in Wetherspoons although I must admit I am in a sweet-toothed minority and my third choice (Jack and Coke) is ubiquitous

I also think the crusade against under-18s drinking is backfiring, since it just results in the youth drinking outside of any supervision and amongst their peers, where there will always be pressure to drink more or behave stupidly. In the US where it’s even more tightly controlled the situation is worse because most young people will be at college/uni by the time they are allowed to drink and so with no parents or other elders to answer to – hence the carnage of spring break, frat parties etc. If it were more accepted that u18s can get the occasional drink in at the pub (I’m under 30 and the pub nearest my school 6th form was full of pupils & the odd teacher after 1530) I feel there would be a lot more sensible drinking. Perhaps something like in France where there are two ages (beer/wine at 16 and spirits at 18) – though I’d have 16-18s allowed to drink in pubs but not buy take-away booze until 18+. Or something

I would agree to loosening the controls on 16-18s drinking in a pub (they can buy and drink without food and an adult) although maybe not to the two age limits. Spirits are often drunk with a mixer which reduces the ABV to much the same as a strong beer or wine

 

[Ivo]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer:

I think a lot of Britons have a complex and dangerous relationship with alcohol. Town and city centres of a weekend are particularly ghastly places to be. I don't agree with the notion that one has to drink to be a character or be fun.

I don't particularly enjoy the taste, price or effects of alcohol which is why I stick to water and juices.

+1 to this. Although I do drink too much soft drink. And milk. My 3½-year-old niece has probably had more to drink in her life than I have in mine! It would probably be worth noting that my sister gave birth at 16, but to her credit has improved since then.

I kind of wish I was allergic to alcohol. It would be a good excuse to tell people to stop forcing it on me! And actually, that is another thing. People who don't drink tell people who do when they think they have gone too far. People who do drink often try to force those who don't to join in. Where's the fairness in that? This is the primary reason that urban centres are rarely an Ivo-friendly zone on Friday nights.

 

[yorksrob]

Agreed (before my time, but the general principle...) - drinking should be done in a social environment. Speaking with my CAMRA hat on, I’ll put myself in favour of a minimum per-unit price for alcohol (around £1/unit) which would put pubs on a par with drinking at home/in the park. In fact, I’d go further and say that there should be a premium put on the off trade (to counter the higher running costs of licensed premises), and tighter requirements on pubs to keep their punters in order.

I also think the crusade against under-18s drinking is backfiring, since it just results in the youth drinking outside of any supervision and amongst their peers, where there will always be pressure to drink more or behave stupidly. In the US where it’s even more tightly controlled the situation is worse because most young people will be at college/uni by the time they are allowed to drink and so with no parents or other elders to answer to – hence the carnage of spring break, frat parties etc. If it were more accepted that u18s can get the occasional drink in at the pub (I’m under 30 and the pub nearest my school 6th form was full of pupils & the odd teacher after 1530) I feel there would be a lot more sensible drinking. Perhaps something like in France where there are two ages (beer/wine at 16 and spirits at 18) – though I’d have 16-18s allowed to drink in pubs but not buy take-away booze until 18+. Or something

</rant>

Spot on. I agree entirely with that.

 

[142094]

Out of interest, who else on here is a CAMRA member?

 

[sprinterguy]

Out of interest, who else on here is a CAMRA member?

I am! And the chief proponent of Wetherspoons out of all who know me