Donald Trump discussion

Wivenswold

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Pardons only apply to Federal Law. Unfortunately for him, most of Trump's legal jeopardy comes from tax, banking and insurance fraud, money laundering and the outstanding dispute over his past tax fraud investigations sit in the State courts and will plough on whether he is Pardoned.

Biden's administration and the FBI will be investigating Trump's administration but mostly for the purposes of undoing any damage done, exposing weaknesses in the constitution and to ensure his many lies are corrected and on record.

That's Trump, his enablers should be very, very worried. They could face the full force of the FBI and criminal charges when the outgoing administration's manifold dirt is out in the open.


This is merely the end of the first series.
 
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nlogax

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Pardons only apply to Federal Law. Unfortunately for him, most of Trump's legal jeopardy comes from tax, banking and insurance fraud, money laundering and the outstanding dispute over his past tax fraud investigations sit in the State courts and will plough on whether he is Pardoned.

Assuming all final ballot certification is completed as expected, there's a fair chance Trump will be looking at investigating a 'small property' in the Otisville, NY area in coming years. Minimal decor but zero rent from his perspective.
 

DynamicSpirit

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That very much depends on if the Republicans want to keep on being the Trump party, or want to quickly distance themselves from the last 5 years. It wouldn't be the worst move - it'd gain them more of the moderates at no penalty, die hard trumpers aren't going to start voting Democrat!

No, but - just like those progressives who didn't bother to vote in 2016, they could just decide not to vote. And if the Republicans return to anything like sanity, then many of them probably will probably choose to do exactly that.
 

Wivenswold

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Assuming all final ballot certification is completed as expected, there's a fair chance Trump will be looking at investigating a 'small property' in the Otisville, NY area in coming years. Minimal decor but zero rent from his perspective.

En-suite, 3 meals a day. It sounds lovely.
 

overthewater

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I would be very surprised if Biden bothers to do anything with trump. If there are investigating Trump's administration only to expose the weaknesses in the constitution, that is fair enough.

If I was biden, I would just get him out the door and away from public life, and leave it be. If not Trump will overshadow everything.

Maybe they should fix the tax loopholes?
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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Remind me what negative things he's actually done?
Well.....
  • He slashed corporation tax and moved the burden onto the lower and middle classes. The idea being that firms would invest the money saved and so boost growth and productivity.... It hasn't happened.
  • The tacit "support" for far right groups... the response to Charlotteville and failure to condemn the Proud Boys
  • The tear gassing of peaceful protesters so he could do a photo call outside a church with an upside bible
  • Withdrawal from the Paris climate accord
  • General pulling back from international structures (e.g. WHO, UNESCO, UNHRC) and so reducing the US's role in leading the world allowing China and Russia to fill the void
  • Separating immigrant families
  • Unilaterally pulling out of an agreed deal with Iran
  • Unilaterally pulling troops out of Northern Syria and so leaving Kurdish allies swinging in the breeze leading to several military officials - led to James Mattis resigning
There are some things he's got right but there's a good reason why he's a one term president (and they're quite rare)
 

Joel_F

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Well.....
  • He slashed corporation tax and moved the burden onto the lower and middle classes. The idea being that firms would invest the money saved and so boost growth and productivity.... It hasn't happened.
  • The tacit "support" for far right groups... the response to Charlotteville and failure to condemn the Proud Boys
  • The tear gassing of peaceful protesters so he could do a photo call outside a church with an upside bible
  • Withdrawal from the Paris climate accord
  • General pulling back from international structures (e.g. WHO, UNESCO, UNHRC) and so reducing the US's role in leading the world allowing China and Russia to fill the void
  • Separating immigrant families
  • Unilaterally pulling out of an agreed deal with Iran
  • Unilaterally pulling troops out of Northern Syria and so leaving Kurdish allies swinging in the breeze leading to several military officials - led to James Mattis resigning
There are some things he's got right but there's a good reason why he's a one term president (and they're quite rare)

1. He also lowered unemployment rates, especially in racial minority groups.
2. He did denounce the white supremacists at Charlottesville, agree about the failure to condemn the PB
3. Agreed
4. Agreed
5. Agreed
6. Carrying on a policy from the Obama administration.
7. Also killed Soleimani - a widely disliked terrorist
8. Agreed

I'm no Trump fan at all but I don't think he is any worse than any other recent president, in fact I think we will look back on his presidency as much better than the Biden administration in a few years' time.
 

Darandio

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Remind me what negative things he's actually done?

Is this a joke? Someone could write a 400 page book on the negative things he has done in the past four years. There are the ones above, here are a few more. I'm staggered you needed reminding.

  • Muslim travel ban
  • Refused to release tax returns
  • Lied
  • Called the recently decased POW John McCain a loser
  • Said other Americans who died in war are suckers and losers
  • Suggested vaccines cause Autism, now he loves vaccines
  • Lied some more
  • Cut their pandemic early warning program, how ironic!
  • Abused public health law to deport nearly 60,000 Haitians
  • Retweeted anti-Islam propaganda
  • Is still lying now

Oh, he was impeached too.
 

telstarbox

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1. He also lowered unemployment rates, especially in racial minority groups.
2. He did denounce the white supremacists at Charlottesville, agree about the failure to condemn the PB
3. Agreed
4. Agreed
5. Agreed
6. Carrying on a policy from the Obama administration.
7. Also killed Soleimani - a widely disliked terrorist
8. Agreed

I'm no Trump fan at all but I don't think he is any worse than any other recent president, in fact I think we will look back on his presidency as much better than the Biden administration in a few years' time.
This is a truly spicy take
 

alex397

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Remind me what negative things he's actually done?
You’ve certainly opened a can of worms here.

There’s a whole list of negative things he has done. The most obvious is the things he has said, and how he speaks about women, disabled people, minorities and so on. Many of the things he has said publicly would have resulted in dismissal in most lines of work.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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1. He also lowered unemployment rates, especially in racial minority groups.
2. He did denounce the white supremacists at Charlottesville, agree about the failure to condemn the PB
3. Agreed
4. Agreed
5. Agreed
6. Carrying on a policy from the Obama administration.
7. Also killed Soleimani - a widely disliked terrorist
8. Agreed

I'm no Trump fan at all but I don't think he is any worse than any other recent president, in fact I think we will look back on his presidency as much better than the Biden administration in a few years' time.

In respect of point 2, he said there were good people on both sides. It was 48 hours later that he condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists.

In respect of point 6, that simply isn't true; it's an oft-quoted but incorrect statement. Since Clinton's time, there have been instances of some children being separated and then only for welfare and safety reasons. Only during Trump's tenure was it actually a policy https://www.factcheck.org/2019/08/falsehoods-about-family-separations-linger-online/ - one that was quickly rescinded.

In respect of point 7, that may well be the case but generally, unilaterally pulling out of an agreement that has been signed by all parties is not good for future agreements around the world.

Even in respect of point 1 and the wider economic picture, unemployment rates did not markedly change from the pattern of the second Obama administration.

We don't know how Biden will get on; he's inheriting a pretty awful situation but will our view of Trump mellow with age. Possibly. However, will he be seen in the Reagan or Clinton mould? I doubt it and will be regarded more like Nixon.
 

nlogax

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This is a truly spicy take

That is indeed an understatement..

Trump has set the US back thirty to forty years in terms of world politics and race relations. If he's ever made correct decisions invariably they have been of the 'stopped clocks are right twice a day' variety. Also note that he fired his few decent advisors and replaced them with yes-people.
 

Joel_F

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That is indeed an understatement..

Trump has set the US back thirty to forty years in terms of world politics and race relations. If he's ever made correct decisions invariably they have been of the 'stopped clocks are right twice a day' variety. Also note that he fired his few decent advisors and replaced them with yes-people.

In terms of race relations it's quite interesting to note that the states with the highest percentages of black voters voted for Trump in this last election. It's also worth noting that the recent protests in terms of race relations began in 2015 - Trump certainly hasn't done much to improve matters but he didn't cause them.

We don't know how Biden will get on; he's inheriting a pretty awful situation but will our view of Trump mellow with age. Possibly. However, will he be seen in the Reagan or Clinton mould? I doubt it and will be regarded more like Nixon.

I think he might be seen as more of a George W Bush figure - popular in some ways but also had some big flaws in policy. Nixon is remembered for only one thing, I don't think many people (including myself!) can name anything that he actually did other than Watergate.


This is a truly spicy take

Just playing devil's advocate. I'm no supporter of Trump but I don't think everything he did has been negative.
 
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SteveM70

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He slashed corporation tax and moved the burden onto the lower and middle classes. The idea being that firms would invest the money saved and so boost growth and productivity.... It hasn't happened.

Which led to share buybacks and consequently a rise in the stock market. Purely as a piece of maths, of course, nothing whatsoever about the fundamentals of the businesses. But hey, Trump can boast about the Dow

If anyone wants a funny, interesting, and very revealing insight into Trump, read “Commander In Cheat” by Rick Reilly.
 

nlogax

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In terms of race relations it's quite interesting to note that the states with the highest percentages of black voters voted for Trump in this last election.

Not quite the same thing. This is about presiding over a country that now appears more divided over its views on race than at any point I can recall. Trump fostered and exploited that division for his own advantage and will continue to do so once he's out of office.

Your point about vote percentage absolutely stands. Overall the Democrats' share of black voters fell this year and they need to take a long hard look at their campaign. Biden's victory should really have been much more convincing than this on so many levels.

I think he might be seen as more of a George W Bush figure - popular in some ways but also had some big flaws in policy. Nixon is remembered for only one thing, I don't think many people (including myself!) can name anything that he actually did other than Watergate.

Nixon also presided over the end of the Vietnam War. Sure it looked like a loss for the US but ending that national nightmare was a fairly large achievement.
 

najaB

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Nixon also presided over the end of the Vietnam War. Sure it looked like a loss for the US but ending that national nightmare was a fairly large achievement.
Also the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and SALT-1 went a long way to keeping the Cold War from going hot.
 

Joel_F

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Not quite the same thing. This is about presiding over a country that now appears more divided over its views on race than at any point I can recall. Trump fostered and exploited that division for his own advantage and will continue to do so once he's out of office.

Your point about vote percentage absolutely stands. Overall the Democrats' share of black voters fell this year and they need to take a long hard look at their campaign. Biden's victory should really have been much more convincing than this on so many levels.

I think that US race relations have really been stirred up by the radical left of the democratic party much more than Trump or his party. The rise of "segregated" area ideas from the democrats is quite worrying.
 

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