Doncaster platform 0 project

[goatie]

hi folks
anyone know anything about the up grade of Doncaster station project, with the new platform 0, I assume they will be doing a lot of track works
I did ask earlier this year, but I suppose its still a bit hush hush
just wondering if I need to hurry up and get some photos of the layout and station before anything starts

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I hope it's not a bay platform ready for when Cleethorpes to Manchester services are to be cut as the TPE consultation proposes.
Wouldn't '0' be next to the bus station?

 

[Searle]

I think it'll be north of platform 1, in the goods sidings there, for easy accessibility for trains to Grimsby to reverse.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I think it'll be north of platform 1, in the goods sidings there, for easy accessibility for trains to Grimsby to reverse.

So they are cutting the service then. Nice of them to keep it secret.
I was hoping the service was to be kept.

 

[Searle]

I have no knowledge of what it will be, that's just what I thought from the back of my mind. Don't get your hopes down too much, I might be talking rubbish!

 

[johnnychips]

If platform 0 were parallel with 1 it would be in the bus station, so the suggestion it is more north is sensible.

 

[Tomnick]

There are already quite a few trains that terminate at Doncaster from the Thorne lines (Hull stoppers during the day and Scunthorpe stoppers in the evening?), most of which seem to need to shunt to clear the platform during their quite long layover. I can understand the justification for a bay platform for these alone, taking the pressure off the two through platforms on the Up side that are quite intensively used, particularly 3. If it is indeed imminent (which I don't believe it is?), then I doubt that it'll have taken into account the decision, yet to be finalised, on what's going to happen to the Cleethorpes service - which, even if split from TPE, surely stands a decent chance of being retained as a fast service through to Sheffield rather than the second option of being tagged onto the end of the stoppers?

 

[The Decapod]

Platform 0

Will they leave room for a platform -1 in the future?

 

[Stats]

From the Consortium of East Coast Mainline Authorities prospectus:

Network Rail have proposed a number of alterations to the layout at Doncaster to mitigate some of the existing issues. These improvements include the upgrading of certain goods lines to passenger standards, the installation of bi directional signalling, and the construction of a new platform to the north of the existing station to accommodate terminating services from the Thorne lines and thus relieve pressure on platform 1 of the main station.

Network Rail aims to progress these measures as part of the CP5 enhancements over the period 2014-19.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Platform 0

Will they leave room for a platform -1 in the future?

I believe a p0 and p-1 was a proposal on the table for Manchester Piccadilly a long time ago.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

There are already quite a few trains that terminate at Doncaster from the Thorne lines (Hull stoppers during the day and Scunthorpe stoppers in the evening?), most of which seem to need to shunt to clear the platform during their quite long layover. I can understand the justification for a bay platform for these alone, taking the pressure off the two through platforms on the Up side that are quite intensively used, particularly 3. If it is indeed imminent (which I don't believe it is?), then I doubt that it'll have taken into account the decision, yet to be finalised, on what's going to happen to the Cleethorpes service - which, even if split from TPE, surely stands a decent chance of being retained as a fast service through to Sheffield rather than the second option of being tagged onto the end of the stoppers?

The consultation will have Northern fast trains between Sheffield and Doncaster transfered to TPE which will go to Hull instead of Cleethorpes. The options for the South Humberside line were:

1, extend current Scunthorpe pacer to Cleethorpes as the only service which would be severely overcrowded and even slower.

2, have Scunthorpe service as now but with an Northern run express from Doncaster to Cleethorpes.

 

[tbtc]

There are already quite a few trains that terminate at Doncaster from the Thorne lines (Hull stoppers during the day and Scunthorpe stoppers in the evening?), most of which seem to need to shunt to clear the platform during their quite long layover. I can understand the justification for a bay platform for these alone, taking the pressure off the two through platforms on the Up side that are quite intensively used, particularly 3

Agreed.

Sensible to have better facilities for Hull/ Cleethorpes services to start/terminate at Donny without disrupting the ECML services.

Platform 0

Will they leave room for a platform -1 in the future?

There's been quite a few "Platform 0"s over the years (Haymarket and Stockport are two off the top of my head) - makes sense to number a new platform next to Platform 1 as "0" rather than a number that suggests it's at the other end of the station which would confuse passengers.

Quite a few stations could do with renumbering to avoid confusion over platform numbers, but that's probably one for a "Trivia" thread

I believe a p0 and p-1 was a proposal on the table for Manchester Piccadilly a long time ago.

IIRC Leeds had "X" and "Y" during the Leeds First remodelling around the Millennium time (since they were below the "old" Platform 1 - but that's going back a few years so memory may be hazy.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The consultation will have Northern fast trains between Sheffield and Doncaster transfered to TPE which will go to Hull instead of Cleethorpes. The options for the South Humberside line were:

1, extend current Scunthorpe pacer to Cleethorpes as the only service which would be severely overcrowded and even slower.

2, have Scunthorpe service as now but with an Northern run express from Doncaster to Cleethorpes.

I'd put money on the current Northern "fast" from Sheffield to Doncaster to be diverted to Cleethorpes (instead of Hull) if that were to be the case.

Makes sense, as it tidies the service pattern up in line with expected electrification in the future (e.g. if we do Leeds - Selby then Selby - Hull becomes a fairly obvious next bit, which then improves the case for Doncaster - Goole - Gilbertdyke afterwards)

 

[Agouldthorpe]

From what I have read in the past I think there's an interest to remove the Northern all station stopper from Hull from platform 1. Not only does it have to shunt into a siding south of the station between arrival and departure. The times a late running East Coast service delays it's return to Hull, surely a separate platform for the Hull service has to be a win win situation

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Just as a quick aside.

Would this new platform be announced as:-

Platform "O" (as in Oh)
Platform "Zero"
or
Platform "Nought"

 

[ASharpe]

Just as a quick aside.

Would this new platform be announced as:-

Platform "O" (as in Oh)
Platform "Zero"
or
Platform "Nought"

At King's Cross it's "platform zero".

 

[Starmill]

At King's Cross it's "platform zero".

And at Stockport.

 

[goatie]

Thanks give me something to think on
a new platform for the thorne lines could fit in by the fence of the bus station

 

[lincolnshire]

Thought it had been suggested to put a bay platform in at the northen end of Doncaster station between platform 1 and 3, should be enough room to get a 3 car set in. Then the train from Hull/ Scunthorpe to pull in out of the way and wait its departure back leaving platforms 1 and 3 free for other train movements. It would also keep the platform within the station area as against how would you get from the station to a platform at the back of the bus station? Can you imagine station staff trying to direct a passenger coming off a train at the north end of platform 8 and wanting platform 0, station staff pointing to bus station saying thats the platform that you want to get to Scunthorpe, you need to go to the front of the station and get to your platform as its not on the station.

 

[goatie]

if they put in bay platform in between 1 & 3 at the north end, I expect entrance to platform 1 will need moving over quite a bit, but there is room there to do it,

 

[mikestone1952]

There are references in the responses on the NR network changes page to the platform being connected by a footbridge, which certainly implies it is to be squeezed between 1 and the bus station.

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Don't know if its physically feasible as regards paths, but wouldn't a solution to the blockage of Platform 1 by the stoppers be to run them through to Lincoln or Gainsborough Central, replacing the EMT service on the former, and possibly extending to Brigg/Grimsby/Cleethorpes on the latter. Include a stop at Robin Hood Airport (Finningley) and possibly somewhere like Walkeringham. If the Hull/Scunthorpe stoppers are hourly, then run alternately to Lincoln/Gainsborough? ?

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Don't know if its physically feasible as regards paths, but wouldn't a solution to the blockage of Platform 1 by the stoppers be to run them through to Lincoln or Gainsborough Central, replacing the EMT service on the former, and possibly extending to Brigg/Grimsby/Cleethorpes on the latter. Include a stop at Robin Hood Airport (Finningley) and possibly somewhere like Walkeringham. If the Hull/Scunthorpe stoppers are hourly, then run alternately to Lincoln/Gainsborough? ?

That's a good idea.
But I think a station near to Haxey on the road to Epworth would have more use. A station will be built at Robin Hood airport eventually anyway..

 

[Class 170101]

A station will be built at Robin Hood airport eventually anyway..

But what would its potential usage be? How many daily flights does Doncaster Airport have? I doubt NR would build a structure if it is likely have as much use as Tees Airport Station.

 

[Tomnick]

Don't know if its physically feasible as regards paths, but wouldn't a solution to the blockage of Platform 1 by the stoppers be to run them through to Lincoln or Gainsborough Central, replacing the EMT service on the former, and possibly extending to Brigg/Grimsby/Cleethorpes on the latter. Include a stop at Robin Hood Airport (Finningley) and possibly somewhere like Walkeringham. If the Hull/Scunthorpe stoppers are hourly, then run alternately to Lincoln/Gainsborough? ?

That wouldn't really make any difference to the current situation on platform 1 - they're usually booked to shunt to the carriage sidings anyway, so aren't planned to occupy the platform for the whole of their layover. The current signalling precludes running Down trains over the Up East Slow anyway, but it might cause pathing problems even if it were possible (probably requiring a ten or fifteen minute margin in Up trains over that line). There'd also be a conflict with Up trains calling at platform 3A too.

I think the idea of platform 0 is to allow trains terminating from the east to do so without conflicting at all with Up trains calling on either side of the island, allowing platform 1 to be used for a through train when it'd otherwise be occupied by the local unit before or after its shunt.

 

[edwin_m]

There was an idea kicking around a few years ago of making the Up East Slow bi-di, but I think it would need a much more intensive service to Robin Hood Airport and beyond before there was any need to consider it. Their website shows three arrivals and departures tomorrow, so I don't think there's much danger of this happening soon.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

But what would its potential usage be? How many daily flights does Doncaster Airport have? I doubt NR would build a structure if it is likely have as much use as Tees Airport Station.

I have no idea. But Wikipedia says it had 690,000 passengers in 2013 with 11,000 aircraft movement, that will include freight.
I guess it'll be well used as the current bus link is shown on the rail map for South Yorks. But no one will know for sure.

The reason Teesside is virtually unused is because it's quite a long walk from the airport and only 2 trains a week stop there.
It is planned to be rebuilt closer as part of the Teesside Metro plan by local councils.

 

[ainsworth74]

The reason Teesside is virtually unused is because it's quite a long walk from the airport and only 2 trains a week stop there.
It is planned to be rebuilt closer as part of the Teesside Metro plan by local councils.

That and there are no flights because most people use Newcastle or Leeds instead. Even if you ran a service that connected into the couple of flights per day and had a shuttle bus between the station and terminal I would be staggered if more than two or three people used the train.

The airport is dead it just hasn't admitted it yet.

 

[trentside]

There was an idea kicking around a few years ago of making the Up East Slow bi-di, but I think it would need a much more intensive service to Robin Hood Airport and beyond before there was any need to consider it. Their website shows three arrivals and departures tomorrow, so I don't think there's much danger of this happening soon.

There were rumblings about this again recently, but I'm not sure where they originated. It would make sense to allow trains off "The Joint" more direct access in to and out of Doncaster, if they were to use Platform 2 - but I'd imagine it would have restricted paths. The curve from Black Carr Jn to Bessacarr Jn has a 60mph speed restriction, but has quite a nasty kick if taken at full speed in a 153.

 

[goatie]

about 13 yrs ago I was out at finningley when I met a team of NR (if it was NR in those days) surveyors who were surveying the route to put a two platform station in at the airport, so its been thought about in the past
trouble is its a big airport but very few passenger flights, just check their arrivals/departure web site

 

[edwin_m]

I think the airport was obliged to build a station as a condition of their planning permission, but probably only when passenger numbers reached a certain level which they haven't and show no sign of doing. This would also not have solved the problem of a handful of trains a day, none of them anywhere near peak times.