Doors opened on platform 7 at Guildford

[swr455]

I just arrived in to Guildford on the 01:24 arrival from London Waterloo. On RTT the train is announced as arriving into platform 6 (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L21474/2023-12-03/detailed) but upon entering the platform the doors on the left side (platform 6) would not open.

On seeing that the buttons were illuminated on the right hand side instead, I questioned this with a fellow passenger, joking that the doors had been released on the wrong side.

To my surprise, when departing the train this appeared to be the case.

For those not in the know, platform 7 at Guildford shares the tracks with platform 6, but is not used i believe due to the risk from the 3rd rail being on this side. Instead, the platform signs are simply labeled “platform not in use”.

At the time I was not entirely observant of the situation, as I was in a rush to get home, but looking back I am almost certain that the doors were incorrectly released on the wrong side.

The risk to passengers is i would say minimal as there is not a large gap between the train and the platform, but I am curious if anyone has previously experienced this or a similar situation, or if this was in fact an intended situation (which seems unlikely to me).

Additionally, as I was descending into the underpass there was an announcement on the tannoy on the lines of “can the guard speak to the station supervisor on platform 2” (platform 2 being the first platform out of the main gateline), so I presume the station staff were aware of the situation but this could have been an unrelated announcement.

 

[stadler]

Apologies for the new account but I do not wish to expose my location on my previous account.

I just arrived in to Guildford on the 1:24 arrival from London Waterloo. On RTT the train is announced as arriving into platform 6 (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L21474/2023-12-03/detailed) but upon entering the platform the doors on the left side (platform 6) would not open. On seeing that the buttons were illuminated on the right hand side instead, I questioned this with a fellow passenger, joking that the doors had been released on the wrong side. To my surprise, when departing the train this appeared to be the case. For those not in the know, platform 7 at Guildford shares the tracks with platform 6, but is not used i believe due to the risk from the 3rd rail being on this side. Instead, the platform signs are simply labeled “platform not in use”. At the time I was not entirely observant of the situation as I was in a rush to get home, but looking back I am almost certain that the doors were incorrectly released on the wrong side.
The risk to passengers is i would say minimal as there is not a large gap between the train and the platform, but I am curious if anyone has previously experienced this or a similar situation, or if this was in fact an intended situation (which seems unlikely to me).
Additionally, as I was descending into the underpass there was an announcement on the tannoy on the lines of “can the guard speak to the station supervisor on platform 2” (platform 2 being the first platform out of the main gateline) so
I presume the station staff were aware of the situation but this could have been an unrelated announcement.

Back in 2019 a twelve coach 450 from Portsmouth to London that i took opened up the doors on P7 and i alighted on to P7 so it has certainly happened before. I think the Guard noticed his mistake as after i alighted and walked towards the footbridge i saw all the doors get shut and locked very quickly and then reopened on the P6 side. It is quite an easy mistake for the Guard to make especially if they are looking out of the P7 side and do not realise what platform they are on or they think they are coming in to P5 instead. Guildford is the only station on the SWR network like this so it is a very rare layout. I would not say it is a big problem as for decades up until the early 2000s passengers alighted from slam door trains on both sides without issue.

 

[BeijingDave]

Back in 2019 a twelve coach 450 from Portsmouth to London that i took opened up the doors on P7 and i alighted on to P7 so it has certainly happened before. I think the Guard noticed his mistake as after i alighted and walked towards the footbridge i saw all the doors get shut and locked very quickly and then reopened on the P6 side. It is quite an easy mistake for the Guard to make especially if they are looking out of the P7 side and do not realise what platform they are on or they think they are coming in to P5 instead. Guildford is the only station on the SWR network like this so it is a very rare layout. I would not say it is a big problem as for decades up until the early 2000s passengers alighted from slam door trains on both sides without issue.

I have always thought that setups like this could be very effectively utilised for the 'Spanish solution' to shorten dwell times.

 

[TUC]

Apologies for the new account but I do not wish to expose my location on my previous account.

I just arrived in to Guildford on the 1:24 arrival from London Waterloo. On RTT the train is announced as arriving into platform 6 (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L21474/2023-12-03/detailed) but upon entering the platform the doors on the left side (platform 6) would not open. On seeing that the buttons were illuminated on the right hand side instead, I questioned this with a fellow passenger, joking that the doors had been released on the wrong side. To my surprise, when departing the train this appeared to be the case. For those not in the know, platform 7 at Guildford shares the tracks with platform 6, but is not used i believe due to the risk from the 3rd rail being on this side. Instead, the platform signs are simply labeled “platform not in use”. At the time I was not entirely observant of the situation as I was in a rush to get home, but looking back I am almost certain that the doors were incorrectly released on the wrong side.
The risk to passengers is i would say minimal as there is not a large gap between the train and the platform, but I am curious if anyone has previously experienced this or a similar situation, or if this was in fact an intended situation (which seems unlikely to me).
Additionally, as I was descending into the underpass there was an announcement on the tannoy on the lines of “can the guard speak to the station supervisor on platform 2” (platform 2 being the first platform out of the main gateline) so
I presume the station staff were aware of the situation but this could have been an unrelated announcement.

So what is the point of platform 7 being there if it is not used?

 

[DelW]

So what is the point of platform 7 being there if it is not used?

It's part of the same physical structure as platform 8, they are opposite faces of the same island.
As to how the layout originated, that's back in the mists of time. But as mentioned in post 2, in the days of the slammers, passengers could use the p6 or p7 sides of a train on that track, as they preferred.

 

[BeijingDave]

Yeovil Pen Mill has a similar set-up. I'd love to know how they came about, really.

 

[Paul180]

So what is the point of platform 7 being there if it is not used?

It's part of the same physical structure as platform 8, they are opposite faces of the same island.
As to how the layout originated, that's back in the mists of time. But as mentioned in post 2, in the days of the slammers, passengers could use the p6 or p7 sides of a train on that track, as they preferred.

Platform 7 at guildford is not used because there is a concern that when a passenger falls between the train and platform they will land on the 3rd rail.

 

[185]

Before HS2 Euston had platform 18, which was both sides but no third rail.. there was a strict rule of one side only though (that platform dates from the motorail days). Sheffield also has 2C - a double sided bay platform, but again no third rail beneath.

Back to Guildford, realistically, situations like that platform face (7) not being fenced off are far worse safety risks than safely extending third rail systems; those regulators blocking it need to be investigated for spending all their resources concentrating on that - when far worse unsafe situations like this at Guildford still exist.

 

[zwk500]

Yeovil Pen Mill has a similar set-up. I'd love to know how they came about, really.

Plenty of them about (or former such). Usually a combination of space, layout constraints, expected heavy traffic, or perhaps a desire to use one side mainly for passengers and another for mail/parcels.

Finsbury Park has 2 double-faced lines - North and Southbound Slow Line 1, which was presumably for heavy commuter traffic expected.
Stratford Central Line has 1 where doors open both side for interchange to rail services on different platforms.
Lewes had one (since filled in) which I think was mainly because of the limited site and constrained complex layout.
Horsted Keynes has one on the Bluebell which isn't quite as clear why but did provide a 2-island main-and-loops layout while also allowing a conventional Side-platform station building in common with others on the line.

There are also several bays with faces both sides for space reasons although these have usually had one side fenced off to make despatch easier (Nottingham and Carlisle IIRC).

 

[Lucan]

There are some LU stations with platforms on both sides of a line, Morden and Golders Green for example, presumably to expedite passenger flow. I'm sure I remember both sides being opened at Morden in the past but I have not been there lately. So do those places open only on one side now?

 

[zwk500]

There are some LU stations with platforms on both sides of a line, Morden and Golders Green for example, presumably to expedite passenger flow. I'm sure I remember both sides being opened at Morden in the past but I have not been there lately. So do those places open only on one side now?

Morden certainly did in Geoff Marshall's video a year ago

so presumably still does.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Yeovil Pen Mill has a similar set-up. I'd love to know how they came about, really.

Cross platform interchange from Taunton terminators into trains to Weymouth perhaps.

 

[Crossover]

One place (be it not on the national rail network) where a double platform face is used is Manchester Victoria on the Metrolink lines.

 

[DelW]

There are some LU stations with platforms on both sides of a line, Morden and Golders Green for example, presumably to expedite passenger flow. I'm sure I remember both sides being opened at Morden in the past but I have not been there lately. So do those places open only on one side now?

IIRC at Stratford, the westbound Central line has platforms both sides and still opens doors both sides, one side for boarding and the other for exiting.

I'm sure I've encountered this on the continent as well, for instance I think Munich's central u-bahn stations work this way.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

There are some LU stations with platforms on both sides of a line, Morden and Golders Green for example, presumably to expedite passenger flow. I'm sure I remember both sides being opened at Morden in the past but I have not been there lately. So do those places open only on one side now?

The bay platform at Greenford, used by the shuttle from West Ealing, has two faces. Used to be able to use slam doors either side, but now only one side is released on the Turbos

 

[Lockwood]

If Guildford P7 cannot be used due to the nearside third rail, why is it safe enough for LU to do it?

Is it as simple as "NR rules Vs LU rules", or any technical reason? Does the lower voltage on LU make the risk assessment happier?

 

[Lucan]

The bay platform at Greenford, used by the shuttle from West Ealing, has two faces.

That does not have a 3rd/4th rail though, the issue being the danger of electrocution if someone falls between the train and the platform.

Does the lower voltage on LU make the risk assessment happier?

No, they would both kill you.

 

[zwk500]

If Guildford P7 cannot be used due to the nearside third rail, why is it safe enough for LU to do it?

Is it as simple as "NR rules Vs LU rules", or any technical reason? Does the lower voltage on LU make the risk assessment happier?

Possibly smaller platform height/step gap so less risk of falling between? Also only opening one set of doors makes despatch easier on NR trains, not sure how having 2 sets open affects LUL despatch.

The difference between 750v and 660v in terms of danger is fairly minimal anyway.

 

[randyrippley]

Yeovil Pen Mill has a similar set-up. I'd love to know how they came about, really.

Pen Mill was built that way to allow easy cross platform transfer between the Weymouth and Taunton lines.
Ulverston was another with a similar arrangement, for access to the Lakeside line

 

[Somewhere]

Possibly smaller platform height/step gap so less risk of falling between? Also only opening one set of doors makes despatch easier on NR trains, not sure how having 2 sets open affects LUL despatch.

The difference between 750v and 660v in terms of danger is fairly minimal anyway.

The positive rail on LU isn't 650v. Its 430v. The negative rail is -220v.

 

[Lucan]

Also only opening one set of doors makes despatch easier on NR trains, not sure how having 2 sets open affects LUL despatch.

The LU examples are mostly (all?) at terminii (eg Morden) or turn-back locations (eg Golders Green), so there is going to be a pause anyway.

 

[davews]

And of course Ascot in the slam door days - mad rush through the train at platform 1 to get to the one on platform 2, I remember it well. Now a high fence between them. If there were issues with third rail nobody seem to care.

 

[Val3ntine]

The LU examples are mostly (all?) at terminii (eg Morden) or turn-back locations (eg Golders Green), so there is going to be a pause anyway.

Central line @ Stratford & District line @ Barking

 

[swt_passenger]

The positive rail on LU isn't 650v. Its 430v. The negative rail is -220v.

Or 500/250V in areas where it’s been upgraded…

 

[Railcar]

Trains pulling into Platform 1 at Norwood Junction (the 'suburban' platform) are adjacent to platform 2. To get from 1 to 2 means two flights of stairs linked by the tunnel under the lines. Platform 2 is an island with platform 3. Commuters wishing to catch a 'London Bridge Fast' service from Platform 3 can be seen making the rush from 1 to 2/3 each morning, Opening both the sets of doors of the train on 1 would save them the rush.

 

[Bevan Price]

Yeovil Pen Mill has a similar set-up. I'd love to know how they came about, really.

Often to facilitate connections with lines that no longer exist.

 

[1Q18]

Plenty of them about (or former such). Usually a combination of space, layout constraints, expected heavy traffic, or perhaps a desire to use one side mainly for passengers and another for mail/parcels.

Finsbury Park has 2 double-faced lines - North and Southbound Slow Line 1, which was presumably for heavy commuter traffic expected.
Stratford Central Line has 1 where doors open both side for interchange to rail services on different platforms.
Lewes had one (since filled in) which I think was mainly because of the limited site and constrained complex layout.
Horsted Keynes has one on the Bluebell which isn't quite as clear why but did provide a 2-island main-and-loops layout while also allowing a conventional Side-platform station building in common with others on the line.

There are also several bays with faces both sides for space reasons although these have usually had one side fenced off to make despatch easier (Nottingham and Carlisle IIRC).

Christ’s Hospital had two such platforms: one loop on the down side intended for school traffic and another on the Guildford side of the station.

 

[fairysdad]

This is going to sound like a stupid question (because, let's face it, it is a stupid question!), but do modern units have the ability to open both sides of doors at the same time? Or is there some sort of interlocking that prevents this?

I expect that in no small part, the dispatch procedure is what prevents this (notwithstanding my stupid question) - as, on SWR at least, the dispatch is that the guard sees what's happening on the platform, closes all doors except theirs, steps onto the platform again, checks again, gets back into the train, closes their door, gives two on the buzzer, and off we go. To have to do that twice would massively increase the dwell time.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

There are also several bays with faces both sides for space reasons although these have usually had one side fenced off to make despatch easier (Nottingham and Carlisle IIRC).

Carlisle platform 2 uses both faces.

One side to disembark and the other to join.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The LU examples are mostly (all?) at terminii (eg Morden) or turn-back locations (eg Golders Green), so there is going to be a pause anyway.

Canary Wharf on the DLR also has that set-up, which puzzled me the first time I used the station. My guess was that it's to facilitate cross-platform interchange between trains from Lewisham to Bank and trains to Stratford, though I'm not sure if that's correct.