Doors opened wrong side at Wigan

[The Albion]

Today I travelled on an Avanti West Coast from Wolverhampton to Wigan.

On arriving at Wigan, normal platform 4, the option to open the doors were set on the wrong side of the train. The train was subsequently delayed by 14 minutes.

What procedure would have had to be applied before authorisation to proceed could be given?

 

[dk1]

Poor traincrew involved. Would need permission to continue from up above & relieved at the earliest opportunity if agreed between all parties to continue. Maybe another member of staff was available to take over.

 

[bengley]

I would imagine the driver was allowed to carry on to Preston where they would have been relieved anyway (no Avanti services travel past Preston without a crew change)

Also, the normal platform for an Avanti service Northbound through Wigan would be platform 5

 

[theironroad]

Who controls the doors on Avanti?

 

[dk1]

Who controls the doors on Avanti?

I was thinking Train manager on Pendolinos but driver on Voyagers.

 

[The Albion]

It was a Pendolino. I actually stated the departure time from Wolverhampton, but for a reason I don't know why a mod edited my original post.

 

[221129]

I was thinking Train manager on Pendolinos but driver on Voyagers.

Are Pendos not Driver Open Guard Close?

 

[185]

Are Pendos not Driver Open Guard Closes?

Correct.

Driver always opens.

To close, Guard (VOY ONLY) beeps 2-1. Driver Closes. Guard shuts local door, then either gives two or platform staff activate RA.
Guard shuts doors.

The (alleged) train in question did use platform 5.

(Amended)

 

[43066]

It was a Pendolino. I actually stated the departure time from Wolverhampton, but for a reason I don't know why a mod edited my original post.

Most probably because what you’ve described is a serious (potentially career limiting) operational incident for the crew involved, and knowing the departure train would enable anyone with access to their diagrams to identify the individuals involved. This kind of thing should remain between the crew involved and their managers.

Correct.

Driver always opens.

To close, Guard beeps 2-1. Driver Closes. Guard shuts local door, then either gives two or platform staff activate RA.

The (alleged) train in question did use platform 5.

I assume that’s because Pendos aren’t fitted with door controls for the guard (seems an odd oversight given they’ve been guard worked since introduction)?

 

[Class 170101]

I assume that’s because Pendos aren’t fitted with door controls for the guard (seems an odd oversight given they’ve been guard worked since introduction)?

Presumably it helps dwell times if guard is busy with passengers then other passengers can get off whilst Guard walks to the appropriate position on the train to close doors.

 

[43066]

Presumably it helps dwell times if guard is busy with passengers then other passengers can get off whilst Guard walks to the appropriate position on the train to close doors.

Yes, sorry, I was focussing more on the guard having to buzz the driver to close doors, rather than just closing themselves.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Correct.

Driver always opens.

To close, Guard beeps 2-1. Driver Closes. Guard shuts local door, then either gives two or platform staff activate RA.

The (alleged) train in question did use platform 5.

On Class 390s, guard closes the doors. There is a door control panel with a ‘door inhibit’ button (hold local door open), ‘close all doors‘ button and ‘bell/buzzer’ button. The 2-1 set up is on the Class 221s though as there is no door control panel whatsoever- just a place for the guard to key in which activates the bell/buzzer and also activates a microphone so the driver can hear the guard if need be (but not the other way around).
The close doors buttons in the cabs aren’t used on Class 390s in passenger service.

 

[PupCuff]

Correct.

Driver always opens.

To close, Guard beeps 2-1. Driver Closes. Guard shuts local door, then either gives two or platform staff activate RA.

The (alleged) train in question did use platform 5.

That's the procedure for Voyagers (the correct bell-buzzer code being 1-2 rather than 2-1). Pendolino doors are closed by the Train Manager using a close doors button provided in each door panel.

Wrong side door releases aren't common but not unheard of. Typically more common where the driver opens the doors but does happen from time to time on conductor-operated services too.

It's important to of course remember that such an incident isn't necessarily a mistake by the staff involved - although in this case if the train was permitted to continue the likelihood is it probably was, as if a fault was suspected then the train would be taken out of service for inspection.

In terms of answering the question asked by the OP, what procedure would be applied, generally (procedures will slightly differ between TOCs) along the lines of:

Close the erroneously opened doors
Report the incident to the signaller and control
If it's not confirmed as human error then arrangements would be made to take the unit out of traffic to check for safety-related faults
If it is confirmed as human error then a check would be made as to whether the driver is able to continue (look at incident history etc)
If the driver can continue then check their welfare and make sure they think they're fit to do so. If the driver can't continue then control to arrange relief.
Company procedures might require drug and alcohol screening for the Driver, if thats the case then control make arrangements for this to take place.
Driver and Train Manager provide reports into the incident.
Incident will be recorded on the Driver's safety of the line file and in industry systems.
Someone somewhere will decide whether it just needs a basic review of the incident or whether it needs a full investigation.
Investigation will consider evidence such as the crew's reports, CCTV, on-train data recorder downloads etc to identify causes and whether any lessons can be learnt or changes made.
Someone will be allocated to sort out those changes.
Hopefully there'll be less chance of the incident happening again.

 

[185]

Incident will be recorded on the Driver's safety of the line file and in industry systems.
Someone somewhere will decide whether it just needs a basic review of the incident or whether it needs a full investigation.
Investigation will consider evidence such as the crew's reports, CCTV, on-train data recorder downloads etc to identify causes and whether any lessons can be learnt or changes made.
Someone will be allocated to sort out those changes.
Hopefully there'll be less chance of the incident happening again.

It should be a straightforward one of ascertaining why the left door releases were pressed. RTT suggests the train used P5 at Wigan, which is a left side release. This was a repeat of the previous stop, at Warrington BQ which was P3 also on the left.

The part not examined could also be electrical failure - I myself have been on the receiving end of a Bombardier built train opening it's offside doors when the nearside was pressed, employer claiming "sloppy stupidity" at first later disproven by the OTMR which proved wonky pins in the coupler were at fault, shorting the two door release circuits to open all of them despite only one side was pressed. Seen it myself so I'd never rule it out.

 

[43066]

The part not examined could also be electrical failure - I myself have been on the receiving end of a Bombardier built train opening it's offside doors when the nearside was pressed, employer claiming "sloppy stupidity" at first later disproven by the OTMR which proved wonky pins in the coupler were at fault, shorting the two door release circuits to open all of them one one side was pressed. Seen it myself so I'd never rule it out.

I’m told that happened fairly regularly on a stock I used to sign, when it was first introduced (a late BR era EMU, built to a strict budget!). Admittedly in those days opening doors on the wrong side (and other misdemeanours) were laughed off and not treated anything like as seriously as they are today.

That’s also a good example of how OTMR can be a blessing in some situations.

 

[PupCuff]

It should be a straightforward one of ascertaining why the left door releases were pressed. RTT suggests the train used P5 at Wigan, which is a left side release. This was a repeat of the previous stop, at Warrington BQ which was P3 also on the left.

The part not examined could also be electrical failure - I myself have been on the receiving end of a Bombardier built train opening it's offside doors when the nearside was pressed, employer claiming "sloppy stupidity" at first later disproven by the OTMR which proved wonky pins in the coupler were at fault, shorting the two door release circuits to open all of them one one side was pressed. Seen it myself so I'd never rule it out.

Absolutely. What should happen if the crew contest operating the wrong control should be that the train is taken out for a technical inspection. If that proves no fault found then there's going to be some more digging needs to be done as you rightly say involving reviewing a download of the train's data recorder (though I would expect this would be done routinely post incident anyway). There certainly shouldn't be anyone claiming any form of 'stupidity' on part of the traincrew although I don't doubt for a second some people have done or do.

In your case the OTMR download will show a simultaneous release of both side doors which will immediately draw whoever's investigating the incident's attention as unless the conductor is well known for their disproportionately sized arms, they're not going to be able to operate both sides switches at once.

 

[philthetube]

I am not sure if the op was asking about crewing the train or the procedures to ensure that everyone is safe and nobody got injured,
questions such as if the doors were to a live track should the red button be hit, etc.

 

[43066]

I am not sure if the op was asking about crewing the train or the procedures to ensure that everyone is safe and nobody got injured,
questions such as if the doors were to a live track should the red button be hit, etc.

He was asking what would have to happen for a train to proceed when a wrong side door release is put up. He’s got some relevant and thorough answers, and crewing is very relevant.

(No, the red button would generally be pushed unless (say) it was observed that someone had actually exited the train and jumped onto the opposing running line and there was a danger to life.)

If these threads also educate those of us who work for other TOCs in some of the different practices our colleagues undergo, that’s all to the good!

 

[dk1]

Are Pendos not Driver Open Guard Close?

That sounds right. I was confusing it with Voyagers where 1-2 is sent to driver to close. Obviously works the same way with 390s that we call degraded working with 745s. Driver opens guard closes.

 

[seagull]

Any wrong side door releases are automatically flagged up by a central monitoring system at Avanti - the same system that enables real-time monitoring of faults on any train in service.
It knows, so I've been told, not by comparing release side with actual platform, as although technically feasible that would be very advanced stuff, but by simply flagging up two door releases in a row on differing sides without any journey between.

 

[Trackman]

Do class 390s have a open local door option?
if so, you could rig it up so you must open the local door first before the main ones.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do class 390s have a open local door option?
if so, you could rig it up so you must open the local door first before the main ones.

It's driver release so this isn't applicable.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Do class 390s have a open local door option?
if so, you could rig it up so you must open the local door first before the main ones.

Yes, I believe they do (but never used). But there are no door release buttons on the door control panels so it wouldn’t work. The only door release buttons are in the driving cabs.

 

[bb21]

Something that I always wondered, if a late-runner gets trapped in the doors, I assume it is the driver that has to re-release? Does the guard have to key off first in that case and re-energise the panel once the driver has done his job?

 

[TurbostarFan]

Something that I always wondered, if a late-runner gets trapped in the doors, I assume it is the driver that has to re-release? Does the guard have to key off first in that case and re-energise the panel once the driver has done his job?

I'd hope that the driver can get on with it ASAP. What if he needed to release the doors in the event of an emergency?

Some trains e.g. GA Class 317s don't even have an Emergency Door Release for passenger use on both sides of the train. Not safe IMO.

 

[philthetube]

What are the procedures immediately following the wrong side door opening, obviously the driver closes again as soon as aware, but then what?
Track check.
Close adjacent line,
electricity off if appropriate,
Are there rules set in stone for this?

 

[Inthewest]

Most probably because what you’ve described is a serious (potentially career limiting) operational incident for the crew involved, and knowing the departure train would enable anyone with access to their diagrams to identify the individuals involved.

And anyone who could look up those details can do so with out the departure time of the train too so it doesn't really matter from that point of view. The log contains the headcode and time anyway.

What are the procedures immediately following the wrong side door opening, obviously the driver closes again as soon as aware, but then what?
Are there rules set in stone for this?

There will be some procedure but in this case, no doors were operated by anyone on the train so they were locked again and the correct side opened.
It'll be like a flow chart somewhere --> Were doors opened: Yes / No. If yes, do this. If no, do that.

 

[westcoaster]

You have to be careful with wrong side door release. It's a simple error to make but if you follow the rules, it's just that an error for which the toc will investigate and the staff involved to receive appropriate traning or mitigation into place.

If you dont follow the rules it will then turn Into a violation which is taken more seriously.

The main thing to do more than any other is to complete a train check to make sure no one has alighted. At my toc this has to be physical check by walking back.

Close doors
Open the correct side
Inform the signaller
Walk back and physically check
Await toc decision on what to do.

Some stations on my route have CDRSE (correct door release side enablement) this stops the train opening the doors and sounds alarms In the cab.

 

[Efini92]

Today I travelled on an Avanti West Coast from Wolverhampton to Wigan.

On arriving at Wigan, normal platform 4, the option to open the doors were set on the wrong side of the train. The train was subsequently delayed by 14 minutes.

What procedure would have had to be applied before authorisation to proceed could be given?

Do you mean platform 5?
If the driver has arrived on platform 4 heading north something has gone very wrong.

 

[miami]

And anyone who could look up those details can do so with out the departure time of the train too so it doesn't really matter from that point of view. The log contains the headcode and time anyway.

There's only one avanti train that was delayed at Wigan by 15 mintues on that day. All northbound trains seem to use platform 5.