Downham Market station pub to close

[scott118]

..last orders at the bar...

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/end_of_the_line_for_award_winning_downham_market_pub_1_4751145

An award-winning pub that featured on TV in ‘Great Railway Journeys of Britain’ and was the last stopping off point for thousands of thirsty rail customers has closed down, amid a row over rent.

 

[grumblingalong]

Oh GTR....

 

[yorksrob]

So this isn't about a failing pub, it's about a bone headed TOC which will have another empty building to maintain rather than an asset at its station. Well done indeed.

 

[Sleepy]

GTR really is the Ryanair of the railways !

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

GTR really is the Ryanair of the railways !

I would have said Norwegian

 

[Class 170101]

I don't think they deal with GTR directly - but via Letting Agent.

 

[tankmc]

The Railways Arms and Fendland Express at Downham Market station has closed due to rent hikes. Rumours are that the rent was tripped but had not been increased in 7 years. Talks now of Costa Coffee wanting to take over the unit.

It a big loss to the station that now has no cafe, place to buy a newspaper or waiting room in the morning. The Pub was much loved by locals and railway enthusiasts.

Is this a case of another local business killed by large chains and a loss of character to the railways or is it just the future of retail on the railway?

Link to the news story here

http://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/awar...-station-closes-after-rent-increase-1-7646050

An award-winning micropub located on platform one of Downham train station has closed after a rent increase. The owners of the Railway Arms, which was named Camra’s cider and perry UK pub of the year in 2013, and the adjoining Fenland Express café have closed both businesses, just months after it won a regional Camra award.

The move came as rumours that a Costa Coffee will open up on the site circulated in the town.

A statement which was displayed at the pub on Monday (October 24) said: “The Railway Arms and Fenland Express are closed. Further to a proposed rent increase, which we regard as excessive and which in our view would adversely affect the viability of the business, we have reluctantly taken the decision to cease trading with immediate effect....

 

[DarloRich]

EDP: “It was our understanding that negotiations were under way via our managing agent, and a very modest rent increase was offered,” a spokesman said. “After several years without an increase, we wanted to work with the tenant to ensure he stayed, as he is a valuable asset to the community. We would be very willing to talk to the tenant to understand why this offer was unacceptable.”

I guess the truth is somewhere in the middle. But then the truth doesn't allow for bashing of an unpopular TOC does it? BTW the comments on that linked page are utter clown town.

 

[Max]

I guess the truth is somewhere in the middle. But then the truth doesn't allow for bashing of an unpopular TOC does it? BTW the comments on that linked page are utter clown town.

Very much depends what the increase was doesn't it - I suspect an agent's definition of "modest" is likely to vary to that of the tenant's! Sadly this is becoming all too common an issue for pubs across the UK (but particularly London and the south east).

 

[yorksrob]

I guess the truth is somewhere in the middle. But then the truth doesn't allow for bashing of an unpopular TOC does it? BTW the comments on that linked page are utter clown town.

Somewhere between that and dreary identikit coffee chains selling overpriced slop to the masses.

 

[DarloRich]

Very much depends what the increase was doesn't it - I suspect an agent's definition of "modest" is likely to vary to that of the tenant's! Sadly this is becoming all too common an issue for pubs across the UK (but particularly London and the south east).

so am I - but that proves the point. One mans modest is another mans excessive.

Somewhere between that and dreary identikit coffee chains selling overpriced slop to the masses.

Or the Uk's favorite coffee shop depending on your view point.

It is interesting that a company seeking to ensure it makes a commercial return from it's property portfolio should be critisiced for doing so. They run a business not a charity. Should they not seek to extract market rate from their tenants? You would if it were your business

It seems there has been no rise for some time and no doubt a rent review period was reached. It seems the prevailing market rate has changed (perhaps taking the lease off the generous initial terms often made available) and the tenant wasn't happy to pay.

or it is a conspiracy to install a different tenant/ own brand coffee shop.

EDIT - god knows I like a decent pub & I am sorry to see one close but surely this is just business.That happens all the time in the commercial property world. Surely employing some lawyers to negotiate a better deal would be a good idea.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

However a company called Beer Heroes are opening a craft beer and tap house at Helsby Station on November 5th.
http://www.beerheroes.com/

(I have nothing to do with this company by the way).

 

[Starmill]

I'm slightly surprised that if the pub was such a success, they could not afford any increase in rent. One would hope that the letting agents were not insisting on 100%+ increases to apply immediately and that the tenant would be negotiated with and given time to come up with the money. Perhaps whoever ran the pub was looking for retirement and this was their cue to go? Who owns the property? Network Rail?

 

[davetheguard]

I'm slightly surprised that if the pub was such a success, they could not afford any increase in rent. One would hope that the letting agents were not insisting on 100%+ increases to apply immediately and that the tenant would be negotiated with and given time to come up with the money. Perhaps whoever ran the pub was looking for retirement and this was their cue to go? Who owns the property? Network Rail?

They were never open lunchtimes on the odd occasion I've been there. Obviously there is a staffing cost to opening, but then again self evidently if you don't open you can't earn any money.

In short, I would have liked to give them some money, but they never allowed me to.......

 

[dk1]

Somebody needs to approach Abellio to take on the old Rosie & Dolly unit at Ely Station. Always think it would make an excellent real ale establishment as there is an endless stream of commuters during the evening as well as many long distance/connecting passengers. The station does not have a public house close enough to be of interest.

 

[yorksrob]

Or the Uk's favorite coffee shop depending on your view point.

It is interesting that a company seeking to ensure it makes a commercial return from it's property portfolio should be critisiced for doing so. They run a business not a charity. Should they not seek to extract market rate from their tenants? You would if it were your business

It seems there has been no rise for some time and no doubt a rent review period was reached. It seems the prevailing market rate has changed (perhaps taking the lease off the generous initial terms often made available) and the tenant wasn't happy to pay.

or it is a conspiracy to install a different tenant/ own brand coffee shop.

EDIT - god knows I like a decent pub & I am sorry to see one close but surely this is just business.That happens all the time in the commercial property world. Surely employing some lawyers to negotiate a better deal would be a good idea.

Given that the station is 'the gateway to the railway' I would have thought that the railway would be crying out for popular independent local businesses. These add rather more character to a place than a chain you can find several times over in the same town.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They were never open lunchtimes on the odd occasion I've been there. Obviously there is a staffing cost to opening, but then again self evidently if you don't open you can't earn any money.

In short, I would have liked to give them some money, but they never allowed me to.......

On the other hand, as you say, the business does have to be open when you need it. Certainly the best station bars up here are open most of the day and many have a range of substantial snacks for lunchtimes. Perhaps they should have taken this approach.

 

[scott118]

Certainly the best station bars up here are open most of the day and many have a range of substantial snacks for lunchtimes. Perhaps they should have taken this approach.

a gastropub on the railway?!...

Traditionally, British pubs were drinking establishments and little emphasis was placed on the serving of food. If pubs served meals they were usually basic cold dishes such as a ploughman's lunch.

...how times have changed.

 

[yorksrob]

a gastropub on the railway?!...

Traditionally, British pubs were drinking establishments and little emphasis was placed on the serving of food. If pubs served meals they were usually basic cold dishes such as a ploughman's lunch.

...how times have changed.

I was thinking more along the lines of a sandwich or a scotch egg

I prefer railway pubs not to smell too much of cooked food (Though I can make exceptions if its a good pub).

 

[scott118]

I was thinking more along the lines of a sandwich or a scotch egg

I prefer railway pubs not to smell too much of cooked food (Though I can make exceptions if its a good pub).

depending on how you look at it, pubs these days need to supplemented by food. Long are the days, where a traditional boozer will survive on beer alone..

Perhaps, coffee is the new beer..

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps, coffee is the new beer..

I don't think so.

That aside, station boozers are a bit different from traditional pubs, and there are some very good ones that concentrate on the beer !

Downham Market looks like the sort of station where it would need to fulfil another function as well, such as a buffet with substantial snacks.

 

[tankmc]

I don't think so.

That aside, station boozers are a bit different from traditional pubs, and there are some very good ones that concentrate on the beer !

Downham Market looks like the sort of station where it would need to fulfil another function as well, such as a buffet with substantial snacks.

The Pub also had a coffee shop/cafe open in the morning selling food, drinks, newspapers and magazines. It also acts as the station's waiting room in the mornings.

Downham is odd as it only has a train once a hour and both north and southbound are at the same time meaning that there is a burst of activity every hour then nothing. Also, the northbound is across the level crossing meaning that most people don't want to risk getting stuck on the wrong side cutting custom. I think on top of that the ticket machine is at the side entrance meaning most people do not walk down though the station building bypassing the cafe/pub. I can only think that all of these points did not help the business.

Downham is dyeing for a decent coffee shop. The only place to get "Proper" coffee is Greggs in the town and a cafe across the river. The previous tenants coffee was not good. I tried the food also and it was terrible using alot of frozen food from what i saw. Its sad another local business is gone in Downham but they never moved with the times. While i would prefer it to be a local tenant, with the state of things i think a costa would take off.

 

[yorksrob]

The Pub also had a coffee shop/cafe open in the morning selling food, drinks, newspapers and magazines. It also acts as the station's waiting room in the mornings.

Downham is odd as it only has a train once a hour and both north and southbound are at the same time meaning that there is a burst of activity every hour then nothing. Also, the northbound is across the level crossing meaning that most people don't want to risk getting stuck on the wrong side cutting custom. I think on top of that the ticket machine is at the side entrance meaning most people do not walk down though the station building bypassing the cafe/pub. I can only think that all of these points did not help the business.

Downham is dyeing for a decent coffee shop. The only place to get "Proper" coffee is Greggs in the town and a cafe across the river. The previous tenants coffee was not good and was more focused on the pub i feel. While i would prefer it to be a local tenant, with the state of things i think a costa would take off.

I have to confess, the 'proper coffee' thing has passed me by. Will a coffee shop be open on cold evenings I wonder.