Driver training, what is learned in what order?

[king_walnut]

Hi,

After being in a 'talent pool' for over 2 years, I finally start my driver journey in early March. Was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what order I will learn things, and exactly what I will be learning? I'd like to try and hit the ground running if I can by doing as much research and reading as I can before I actually start.

Cheers.

 

[ilkestonian]

The general advice is don't.

You'll learn everything you need, as and when you need it.

Trying to second guess what is needed probably won't help and could confuse, especially where different emphasis is placed on things by different companies.

 

[ComUtoR]

Very broadly.

PTS
Rules
Traction
Manual Handling
Routes

 

[Driver2B]

Hi,

After being in a 'talent pool' for over 2 years, I finally start my driver journey in early March. Was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what order I will learn things, and exactly what I will be learning? I'd like to try and hit the ground running if I can by doing as much research and reading as I can before I actually start.

Cheers.

They generally advise don't, but:

* Stage 1: PTS then rules
* Stage 2: Traction and handling
* Stage 3: Routes

I really wouldn't start off learning rules - they do it all in a certain order. You could get very confused trying to start this on your own.

If you wanted to prepare a little, you could know what traction the TOC and depot drive, and which classes are similar to other classes, and which routes they are used on, learning to recognise the different stock.

You could also learn the routes which are driven (the stations on different lines in the right order, rather than points, signals, speed limits, etc.)

Here is a video and article about SWR driver training, which might be interesting/useful: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/behind-scenes-south-western-railways-15211282

Which TOC are you starting with?

 

[heedfan]

Do not try and learn the rule book in advance - I can’t stress this enough. You will be given plenty of time and guidance to do this. Trying to learn it in advance will only lead to you developing misconceptions which will be problematic. Develop the knowledge of your TOC as previous post says but please leave the technical stuff to your tutor.

 

[king_walnut]

They generally advise don't, but:

* Stage 1: PTS then rules
* Stage 2: Traction and handling
* Stage 3: Routes

I really wouldn't start off learning rules - they do it all in a certain order. You could get very confused trying to start this on your own.

If you wanted to prepare a little, you could know what traction the TOC and depot drive, and which classes are similar to other classes, and which routes they are used on, learning to recognise the different stock.

You could also learn the routes which are driven (the stations on different lines in the right order, rather than points, signals, speed limits, etc.)

Here is a video and article about SWR driver training, which might be interesting/useful: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/behind-scenes-south-western-railways-15211282

Which TOC are you starting with?

Thanks, it's with Southern. I've worked here for the past 5 years in various roles so I'm familiar with what routes we serve and the rolling stock used etc..

I went down a rabbit hole of old BR training videos last night, even found a PTS video from the 60's! I'm just chomping at the bit at this point ahha

 

[OneLowban]

I am currently halfway through my training and as said above, just do the training as you are taught. I’ve seen first hand how it can confuse things etc so it just isn’t worth it.

Enjoy.

 

[Driver2B]

Thanks, it's with Southern. I've worked here for the past 5 years in various roles so I'm familiar with what routes we serve and the rolling stock used etc..

I went down a rabbit hole of old BR training videos last night, even found a PTS video from the 60's! I'm just chomping at the bit at this point ahha

You're welcome.

Oh, I see.

Good luck in your new role!

 

[Pilotman]

Hi King

Yes have to agree with the guys, leave the operational rules until your with a tutor/trainer. However some TOC's have exit points, not meaning to scare you but your first subject is PTS. If you fail PTS and again depending on TOC is to whether you have a second chance at it. For example Southeastern you get 1 chance, GTR allows a second attempt. Based upon this and PTS being an exit point i would maybe read up on PTS.

When i started to train i used a site which was recommended by other trainee drivers in my class and proved very useful. They have a PTS module geared up for driver grades at https://www.uktrainingsolutions.com best of all its FREE. If you want to wait until your with a tutor for this thats up to you but does give you the heads up.

When you start training with your TOC then you may look at other topics but as the guys said above leave the rules with your tutor.

Hope this helps

 

[Aivilo]

Congratulations, Don't look into anything. Courses are delivered and tell you everything you need to know. PTS is pass/fail but if thats something a recruit cannot do then they should not be on the railways in a safety critical role

 

[Dynamonic]

Yeah, I remember being slightly nervous about the prospect of sitting my first exam on day two of the course in PTS.
Virtually everyone on my course scored 100% though so it’s certainly not the hardest paper.

As has been said, you really don’t need to be researching things prior to your start date. Just take everything in as it is taught to you from your trainer. There’ll be plenty of class work, homework and revision, so make the most of your freedom.

 

[TheVicLine]

Don't try and guess the order of training. Each TOC will have a specific order and way of teaching you and it will confuse you if you start learning random stuff out of sync.
Driver2B gave the brief outline earlier in this thread, that's about all you need to know at this stage.

My advice would be just chill and enjoy the training day by day, it's hard work but really is good fun, I wish I could go back and do it all again (on full pay obviously) .

 

[TheVicLine]

Hi King

Yes have to agree with the guys, leave the operational rules until your with a tutor/trainer. However some TOC's have exit points, not meaning to scare you but your first subject is PTS. If you fail PTS and again depending on TOC is to whether you have a second chance at it. For example Southeastern you get 1 chance, GTR allows a second attempt. Based upon this and PTS being an exit point i would maybe read up on PTS.

When i started to train i used a site which was recommended by other trainee drivers in my class and proved very useful. They have a PTS module geared up for driver grades at https://www.uktrainingsolutions.com best of all its FREE. If you want to wait until your with a tutor for this thats up to you but does give you the heads up.

When you start training with your TOC then you may look at other topics but as the guys said above leave the rules with your tutor.

Hope this helps

They kick you off the drivers course for failing PTS???!!! Surely not?
I've never heard of anyone failing a course, they are investing a lot of money in training you so it's not in their or the trainees interest to fail someone.

Someone's going to tell me all about trainees failing now aren't they

 

[Llama]

Failure rate on the final competency assessment (FCA, the 'passout' after all your training) at my TOC is about 10%. I am not aware of any of those who have failed their FCA in recent years not managing to pass on their second attempt. If someone can't pass PTS though, I agree they are probably not suited to the role. PTS is quite simple and extremely important stuff.

 

[ComUtoR]

They kick you off the drivers course for failing PTS???!!! Surely not?

Yep. Considering how "easy" PTS is. It wouldn't bode well for the Rules course.

I've never heard of anyone failing a course, they are investing a lot of money in training you so it's not in their or the trainees interest to fail someone.

The problem is how much can they invest. If you failed the course then you would need to be allocated a new course. It isn't a case of resitting a test. Does the TOC then invest more into a Trainee with the potential that they may not pass a second time and how do they bump another candidate from a lower course ?

You also need to consider the level they failed at. There is a pass mark to be achieved and tbh its quite low. It can be gutting to miss by a single percent but in reality you missed by an already generous margin.

Someone's going to tell me all about trainees failing now aren't they

Failure is discussed quite often. There are failures at all levels from PTS right up to your final assessment to become a Driver. I think there is a modern belief that once you are on the course, you are guaranteed to become a Driver. Nobody wants anyone to fail and yes, there is considerable investment but some people just can't make it to Driver.

Some don't make it through the first year.

 

[Llama]

The worst thing that a trainee or prospective trainee can do is think they have it sewn up once they have passed the interview/psychometric/medical. There's the small matter of 12 months of hard work ahead just to become competent on basic routes and traction. Then there are here endless practical assessments, further training, retention of all the knowledge that you might not use day to day, as well as learning how all the facets of the railway "work" (rostering, politics, culture, management, unions, franchises)...

 

[ComUtoR]

Its also worth mentioning that the assessments NEVER stop. I get an assessment once a year with full re-certification over two years. I have downloads on a regular basis and regular rides with my Driver Manager. I sat my PTS assessment just last week.

Yes, you can 'fail' those too :/

 

[baz962]

Its also worth mentioning that the assessments NEVER stop. I get an assessment once a year with full re-certification over two years. I have downloads on a regular basis and regular rides with my Driver Manager. I sat my PTS assessment just last week.

Yes, you can 'fail' those too :/

Question for you Com . Would you agree that most failure's are down to attitude , rather than ability. At my toc , one or two have passed on their second attempt , and I believe it has been quite a few year's since anyone was actually let go. Our ops trainer's used to say that the few that were let go generally had a less than 100% attitude.

 

[Llama]

In my experience, attitude is usually a big factor in those who fail.

 

[Dynamonic]

Yeah, we were told prior to starting that this is not a job for you if you don't like regular assessments, and now I see why. There's always a ride out with manager, data download or written assessment coming up. The job is also more of a lifestyle than a job too. You are required to stay fit, manage fatigue and ensure you stay on top of your training and rules knowledge too by reading the latest notices and regularly going through your rule book and route knowledge, often in your own time too.
You definitely need to have the right attitude in the role to succeed, and you'll get loads of advice in training school about managing your life as a driver.

 

[Pug Washer]

Don't do nothing until you're told to do by your mentors. 'Hitting the ground runnig' is quite silly really. Just learn and follow what your instructors tell you to, and you will be fine. It's hardly nuclear physics at the end of the day, so you will be fine as long as you do what you're told and learn it!

 

[RBSN]

Take the time you have now to relax and get everything sorted that you need to prior to starting the course as once you start you will wish you had the spare time.

 

[ComUtoR]

Question for you Com . Would you agree that most failure's are down to attitude , rather than ability..

Attitude is very important. You have to come into this industry with an open mind and no chips on your shoulder. It was a massive culture shock for me and tbh it still is. There are so many things that can frustrate you on a daily basis and it hard to turn a blind eye or let it get to you.

From day one of training you quickly understand how much is ahead of you. At times, the training can appear unforgiving and often quite harsh but keeping that open mind and you see a different view.

You have to make a LOT of effort and you can see again from day one, who might not make it. It isn't hard, just intense and at times, overwhelming. Any TOC will give you support if you request it. Your fellow Trainees are all going through the same thing. Many will form a study group (WhatsApp is great for that). And many have q&a sessions on break and when they pass home etc.

Same with manual handling and routes etc. There is plenty of support at the depot if you ask. I am stunned by the attitudes of some Trainees that come through. Many do believe that there is no chance of failure and the job is pretty much guaranteed. I've lost track of the number of Trainees who take a half day because they think nobody is looking.

The best advice I was given was to give up 2yrs of my life and dedicate it to the railway. It's crap but worth it when you come out the other end.

Never be afraid to ask for help, be prepared for some sacrifices, help others who are struggling, work together, trust your Mentors/Instructors. Most of all...


..DONT READ AHEAD

 

[BallastMonkey]

Some good advice above!

 

[axlecounter]

I suppose this is appropriate for UK trainees too: if you aren’t used anymore to studying or learning new things, try to work on that. Choose something unrelated and try to follow some lessons (internet is wonderful for that), make notes, listen to a teacher, make exercices... You’ll go to class with a fresher mind and will find it easier to grasp everything.

I came from a school background so it was ok for me, but I saw those who came from a working experience, especially those that did the same job for years, really struggling in that field.

 

[TheVicLine]

I definitely agree with the making notes, you will be glad you did when it comes to your rules exam when you pass out.

 

[mandy13791379]

Hi,

After being in a 'talent pool' for over 2 years, I finally start my driver journey in early March. Was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what order I will learn things, and exactly what I will be learning? I'd like to try and hit the ground running if I can by doing as much research and reading as I can before I actually start.

Cheers.

Hi King_walnut,

I’m also starting with Southern on the 4th March after over 2 years in the talent pool! See you at training

 

[dazzayid]

Hi King_walnut,

I’m also starting with Southern on the 4th March after over 2 years in the talent pool! See you at training

I will see u in the school, I am at the school at the moment.

 

[king_walnut]

I will see u in the school, I am at the school at the moment.

Did you work at Eastbourne as a shunter? How's it going so far?

 

[dazzayid]

Did you work at Eastbourne as a shunter? How's it going so far?

Yes it’s all going well. Loads to take in but been good so far.