DRS Class 92s

[shedman]

I have been told today a deal has been done and DRS are to begin training their staff on Class 92s. From what I have been told they will be based at Crewe Electric but maintained by DRS. I forgot to ask where they were coming from but in the past there was talk of them coming from GBRf so perhaps this is still the cas

I am expecting the usual barrage of people asking for proof, I don't have any so its a case of wait and see but I certainly have no reason to disbelive what I have been told.

 

[Loki]

Well, if that is true (and I'd ask for proof ) the electric version of Class 68 is out of the window I guess....

 

[YorkshireBear]

Doubt they will come from GBRF, they have just done theirs up and are trialling them and promoting the use for electric intermodal to Manchester.

Previous rumours actually surround DBS to DRS. That is more likely IMHO.

 

[Photohunter71]

If the electric version of the 68 is out the window then it's no big loss,as you will appreciate an electric version will have to be type tested etc etc, whereas the 68 is derived from the Eurolight so is already proven.More use of the 92's is a good thing,so if some freight company want more electrics,there are new types already out there which have been proven.

 

[Beveridges]

I am surprised DB Schenker are selling 92's to one of their main competitors, DRS, to use on work that they have stolen from them ?

After all they refused to sell any 56's/37's for years, even though they were surplus to requirements, in fear of helping a competing FOC. Some of these locos were in really bad condition as well, requiring hundreds of thousands spent on each one in repairs/overhauls. Selling these working 92's to DRS really goes against this policy.

 

[cj_1985]

Firstly, I doubt DBS would be SELLING class 92s to DRS... More likely they would just sub lease a few to DRS.

Secondly, even if this is TRUE... No matter where DRS are obtaining class 92s from, that's not to say that they would not still order class 68 based electric locos... Since it would probably take atleast 18 months to build any new locos... And then you would have the approval process already mentioned that would add a few months onto that before they could even turn a wheel in revenue earning service...
Leasing class 92s in the mean time would still make sense performance wise.

 

[shedman]

Well talking of an electric class 68 word is that an electric loco with a 1000hp diesel engine is being ordered....

 

[Loki]

If the electric version of the 68 is out the window then it's no big loss,as you will appreciate an electric version will have to be type tested etc etc, whereas the 68 is derived from the Eurolight so is already proven.More use of the 92's is a good thing,so if some freight company want more electrics,there are new types already out there which have been proven.

Agree more usage of 92s is a good thing. However we are falling behind a bit on the electric loco front compared to other EU countries and a new machine will be most welcomed.

Well talking of an electric class 68 word is that an electric loco with a 1000hp diesel engine is being ordered....

Very interesting.

 

[shedman]

Everyone knows by now how DRS keep things tight lipped.

The rumoured swap between GBRf and DRS (66 for 92) sounds more realist than DBS but who knows! Also where are GBRfs 92s based and maintained?

 

[cj_1985]

IIRC the GBRf/Europorte class 92s are based at the Eurotunnel Coquelle depot...

Class 92s used by GBRf in the UK are used then AIUI return to rugby for forwarding back via the Intermodal from Daventry to Frethun that continues onto Italy after a loco swap.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well talking of an electric class 68 word is that an electric loco with a 1000hp diesel engine is being ordered....

I wonder if this is for the use with Virgin that was in the RI rumour section last month

 

[Beveridges]

Virgin to bring back loco hauled passenger trains ?
Or just class 68 Thunderbirds to see the 57s off ?

Now an electric version of a 68 with a rather powerful onboard diesel engine? Would it even be possible to fit all that equipment in a 68 - its not exactly the largest loco.

Its a bit like trying to fit a class 20 engine into an electric loco thats only abou the same size as a 90, as well as all the electric equipment like the transformer etc. Plus it will have to have a silencer as well!

 

[cj_1985]

Virgin to bring back loco hauled passenger trains ?
Or just class 68 Thunderbirds to see the 57s off ?

Now an electric version of a 68 with a rather powerful onboard diesel engine? Would it even be possible to fit all that equipment in a 68 - its not exactly the largest loco.

Word for word...

*Virgin is looking to order some more Class 390s we hear- Perhaps it feels a new franchise is 'in the bag' ? * And Class 68s - six of - could also be on Virgin's radar for thunderbird work... * Or will they be class 78 Electro diesels? These could haul new coaches on long distance trains that then slip off the wires for short diesel runs *

 

[RichmondCommu]

Agree more usage of 92s is a good thing. However we are falling behind a bit on the electric loco front compared to other EU countries and a new machine will be most welcomed.

But who's going to buy them? I don't see DBS and Freightliner being interested as they don't have enough work for the electric loco's that they already have. And how many services do DRS have where electric loco's would be useful? The only one I can think of is the Tesco / Stobbart run and it's not worth buying a brand new loco just for that.

 

[Monty]

Even if they only really have the single flow where electric traction is the preferred motive power, DRS may just be thinking towards the future when the electrification program is in full swing. DB Schenker & Freightliner have a virtual monopoly on electric locomotives if you discount the small fleet GBRf own, and in the case of freightliner I don't know how much longer their Class 86 fleet is going to be able to soldier on for.

The fact is that while have more than enough locos for the time being, that could rapidly change well within a decade (especially considering DBS keep sending locomotives abroad!) we may end up experiencing a shortage in traction. If DRS did order a new electric locomotive there would be plenty of time to develop and test it, that would give the company a very strong footing with the most modern electric fleet for when the electric spine is energised.

 

[route:oxford]

Virgin to bring back loco hauled passenger trains ?
Or just class 68 Thunderbirds to see the 57s off ?

Now an electric version of a 68 with a rather powerful onboard diesel engine? Would it even be possible to fit all that equipment in a 68 - its not exactly the largest loco.

Its a bit like trying to fit a class 20 engine into an electric loco thats only abou the same size as a 90, as well as all the electric equipment like the transformer etc. Plus it will have to have a silencer as well!

Although, isn't there a "compact" 900hp diesel engine either ready or in development for slinging under IEP?

 

[captainbigun]

Problem is order quantities. For any of the manafacturers with existing designs to repackage into a UK box they need to see a big order, circa 50, to make the costs work.

Vossloh, who've no experience with AC locos to my knowledge, may be prepared to take a punt in the UK market with DRS as a partner (though Beacon would be the likely ROSCO). However, DRS are likely to order mixed traffic locos, and that is not what you want for freight. If you're hauling freight you want a freight machine.

 

[Photohunter71]

I can't ever see the electric variant of the 68 seeing the light of day,as captainbugun quoted Vossloh have no experience with AC locos as far as we all know.Talk of an electric type with a diesel engine can only mean one Loco with that proven capability and technology,Traxx.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It will be 2030 before we see a huge shift to electric freight. Freight really relies on the gaps being filled.

 

[Boothby97]

Firstly, I doubt DBS would be SELLING class 92s to DRS... More likely they would just sub lease a few to DRS.

[pedantic mode]
I'd be surprised as well, as DBS don't own the 92s, they lease them from a ROSCO (in this case HBOS plc) [/pedantic mode]

From what it sounds, then the Class 92 hire deal, which would apparently be for 3 of the class, could be a stop gap for the electro-diesel Eurolight

Thanks, Sam

 

[Photohunter71]

I'm banking on Traxx or Prima 2 to be the next electric freight loco in the UK.So one of the ROSCO's are HBoS,but for how much longer until they have to dispose of the ROSCO arm in a sell off? That could possibly put the fleet at risk.

 

[60163]

Just wondering, would this deal involve three 92s already serviceable or would they be seeking to crowbar some of the 'wrecks' out of Crewe and bring them back to life?

 

[cj_1985]

Just wondering, would this deal involve three 92s already serviceable or would they be seeking to crowbar some of the 'wrecks' out of Crewe and bring them back to life?

I suppose that depends firstly on who DRS are leasing the 92s from*... DBS or GBRf/Europorte... and on how long the lease is for.. I mean in theory it may work out better if the lease is for a longer period for Europorte or DBS to provide 3 dedicated machines (in the longer term) from any of the locos they currently have stored after some attention, with random locos from the currently operational fleet/s being used in the short term

but no doubt we will know within the next couple of months...

* Although along with others, I would expect it to be from DBS, not least of which because of the mention about them being maintained at Crewe IEMD, and also because providing 3 locos to DRS would cut the available 92s to GBRf/Europorte down by half (without considering Europorte Channel Tunnel Services, and probable insuficient maintenance cover), based on the current operational locos.

 

[MCW]

this question has some bearing on this discussion...

what's happening with the stored 86's in working condition in floyd livery? not all of them are being used abraod and they have been refurbished, with a minimum of work, these could be put into use on the UK network, so perhaps these engines are as much a possibility as the 92's for DRS???

 

[Boothby97]

this question has some bearing on this discussion...

what's happening with the stored 86's in working condition in floyd livery? not all of them are being used abraod and they have been refurbished, with a minimum of work, these could be put into use on the UK network, so perhaps these engines are as much a possibility as the 92's for DRS???

There are no Floyd liveried 86s in Britain, but all those owned by Europheonix in the UK are more than likely bound for export to Hungary unfortunately.

 

[captainbigun]

this question has some bearing on this discussion...

what's happening with the stored 86's in working condition in floyd livery? not all of them are being used abraod and they have been refurbished, with a minimum of work, these could be put into use on the UK network, so perhaps these engines are as much a possibility as the 92's for DRS???

Cost of putting an 86 back in use in the UK is now prohibitive, OTMR, GSM-R, VCB, plus the heavy overhaul. You're looking at close to £0.5m.

 

[MCW]

Its a shame really.... If cost wasn't an issue then the 86's would plug a small gap and would be useful, but alas, regulations and times gave changed and with that the costs of making them rail worthy... Bummer

 

[RobShipway]

What about using Class 90's for electric freight, are all of those in use?

 

[sprinterguy]

What about using Class 90's for electric freight, are all of those in use?

There are a good number of 90s in store at Crewe, however, they are all owned by DB Schenker who seem to have little intention of selling up, and most have been stored out in the open for a long while - Not good for locos with sensitive electronics.

 

[RobShipway]

There are a good number of 90s in store at Crewe, however, they are all owned by DB Schenker who seem to have little intention of selling up, and most have been stored out in the open for a long while - Not good for locos with sensitive electronics.

I think the class 90's if sold by DB Schenker would be the ideal locos for Electric Freight. Okay, a bit of work may need to be done to them to get them in a good working condition, but that is cheaper than buying locos off the shelf.