Drunks

[IanPooleTrains]

I want to hear from some of you whether you are working as a train manager or the trolley dolly

Basically, coming back from Oxford on the 18:36 to Piccadilly and decided to go and sit in the Quiet Zone which was anything but because there was a group of Bournemouth fans and they were.....quite drunk!

The guy working the mobile trolley kept supplying them with more lager (if that is what Carlsberg is) and the train manager looked like he had lost control and they were really drunk, I onl wish I had my cameras running so that you could all see how bad they got

I was just wondering what the usual procedure was for dealing with them because it looked like, to me and some of the other passengers at least, the train manager just didn't want to do anything

 

[Flamingo]

Sometimes the best bet is keep them happy, get the "ordinary" passengers into another carriage, and hope it doesn't kick off. As one of me colleagues once put it to some police who said "They are settled now, we'll leave them here",
"Of course they have settled, there are ten of you with stab vests, batons and CS spray. Once you go, I'm on my own with a whistle"

I've had it on a late train, where I've had to make the decision it was better to try and get the train to the destination as quickly as possible, than hold it for half an hour at an intermediate station waiting for the police who may or may not turn up and may or may not be willing to do anything when they do.

 

[WestCoast]

I've seen quite a few groups who have been very raucous and some who have become abusive and threatening to other passengers. Saturday afternoon trains into Blackpool North is where I've seen some of the most "lively" groups:roll:.

The worst I can remember was a sozzled ("chav") stag party of about 30 guys, who literally took over a Northern pacer with shouting, swearing, refusal to show ticket/pay and rants/abuse to others passengers.

The guard stayed in the cab and he must have called control as police met the train at the destination. I can remember the train was littered with cheap lager/cider cans and I think they damaged something. I was glad to get off that train!

I've heard the TPEs up from York to Middlesbrough are bad for drunks and alcohol is banned on select services.

 

[Spaceflower]

TPE trains full stop can be bad. Football matches and holiday traffic.

 

[WestCoast]

TPE trains full stop can be bad. Football matches and holiday traffic.

When anything like a major football match is on, you can expect it.

Over here and IME, Northern seem to bare more trouble than TPE, due to the nature of their services, however TPE coming up from Man Picc to Preston can get raucous at night! :cry:

The BTP seem good at covering stations when there is likely to be problems with drunks, but onboard seems a different matter. Once they've shoved them onto trains, it's no longer their issue....

 

[Lawman]

I want to hear from some of you whether you are working as a train manager or the trolley dolly

Basically, coming back from Oxford on the 18:36 to Piccadilly and decided to go and sit in the Quiet Zone which was anything but because there was a group of Bournemouth fans and they were.....quite drunk!

like he had lost control and they were really drunk, I onl wish I had my cameras ruThe guy working the mobile trolley kept supplying them with more lager (if that is what Carlsberg is) and the train manager looked nning so that you could all see how bad they got

I was just wondering what the usual procedure was for dealing with them because it looked like, to me and some of the other passengers at least, the train manager just didn't want to do anything

Its a difficult call to make.........you stop serving them alcohol they get more aggrasive to employee's and other passengers.You continue to serve them they get more drunk.What makes it more difficult,you could be several miles from the next station for Police assistance.If l worked on trains l would continue to serve them alcohol,try and keep them sweet,contact Police to attend the nearest station,and have them removed from the train.

 

[BestWestern]

The trolley steward was almost certainly on a bonus scheme, which may explain the ill-advised decision to continue to provide alcohol, which is the priciest item he would have had. He may also have felt intimidated into providing more booze rather than refusing to serve and upsetting them.

Sadly, drunks will always be a problem on the railways since there is so little control over who boards a train, and as has been said already, even if the authorities are in attendance, often they see the solution as just bundling them all on the first train that appears, in order to get rid of them. I personally would be in favour discontinuing sales of alcohol onboard, as there is a clear link between nuisance behaviour and the further supply of drink onboard, combined with more widespread efforts to control booze brought onto trains and stations. The real cure however would be a concerted nationwide effort by the TOC's and the BTP to come down hard on nuisance drunk passengers, crucially including refusing travel to those who appear to be unfit already, in much the same way as an airline would, and a far tougher approach when BTP or suchlike have to attend a train due to trouble makers mid-journey. Once they'd been escorted off railway premises and instructed to find another way home, they'd be far more likely to reconsider their attitudes the next time they take a train, I would imagine!

 

[scotsman]

The trolley steward was almost certainly on a bonus scheme, which may explain the ill-advised decision to continue to provide alcohol, which is the priciest item he would have had. He may also have felt intimidated into providing more booze rather than refusing to serve and upsetting them.

Pretty sure it's illegal to serve someone who is clearly intoxicated

 

[Anon Mouse]

Pretty sure it's illegal to serve someone who is clearly intoxicated

But, as already been suggested its certainly safer for the Trolley Guy to continuie to serve alcohol to prevent himself any problems.

Drunk passengers are a nightmare and often for safety its best to keep them sweet and keep away from them for our own safety and to prevent a bad situation escalating. If that means the Guard remains in the back cab then so be it, what good would we be in an emergency if we are on the ground in a pool of blood for telling them to behave?

 

[scotsman]

But, as already been suggested its certainly safer for the Trolley Guy to continuie to serve alcohol to prevent himself any problems.

No doubt

 

[BestWestern]

Drunk passengers are a nightmare and often for safety its best to keep them sweet and keep away from them for our own safety and to prevent a bad situation escalating. If that means the Guard remains in the back cab then so be it, what good would we be in an emergency if we are on the ground in a pool of blood for telling them to behave?

This is very true, and most TOC's will always advise staff to preserve their own safert first and foremost, for just that reason; if it hits the fan, the Guard will be required to do their job, which cannot happen if he/she is in the middle of a riot! As much as the job we have is a customer service role, it is a safety role even moreso, and sometimes the bigger picture has to be looked at.

 

[Anon Mouse]

This is very true, and most TOC's will always advise staff to preserve their own safert first and foremost, for just that reason; if it hits the fan, the Guard will be required to do their job, which cannot happen if he/she is in the middle of a riot! As much as the job we have is a customer service role, it is a safety role even moreso, and sometimes the bigger picture has to be looked at.

Which is exactly what I done on two of my trains populated by drunk passengers tonight!

 

[yorksrob]

The trolley steward was almost certainly on a bonus scheme, which may explain the ill-advised decision to continue to provide alcohol, which is the priciest item he would have had. He may also have felt intimidated into providing more booze rather than refusing to serve and upsetting them.

Sadly, drunks will always be a problem on the railways since there is so little control over who boards a train, and as has been said already, even if the authorities are in attendance, often they see the solution as just bundling them all on the first train that appears, in order to get rid of them. I personally would be in favour discontinuing sales of alcohol onboard, as there is a clear link between nuisance behaviour and the further supply of drink onboard, combined with more widespread efforts to control booze brought onto trains and stations. !

It's the perennial problem that the problems are more likely to be caused by those who are already hammered rather than someone buying a beer or two on the train.

The real cure however would be a concerted nationwide effort by the TOC's and the BTP to come down hard on nuisance drunk passengers, crucially including refusing travel to those who appear to be unfit already, in much the same way as an airline would, and a far tougher approach when BTP or suchlike have to attend a train due to trouble makers mid-journey. Once they'd been escorted off railway premises and instructed to find another way home, they'd be far more likely to reconsider their attitudes the next time they take a train, I would imagine!

This is the real solution. And a night in the drunk tank.

 

[umontu]

Thing is about banning sales on board, they'll just bring their own.
I was on a Northern 180 Man vic to Kirkham recently that stopped at Leyland where, and I'm estimating but I won't be far wrong, there were 15 late teen-mid 20's chavs got on board all with at least one alcoholic drink in their possession. ONE EVEN HAD A CRATE! Quite glad I'd left the carriage just before they got on.

 

[O L Leigh]

I suppose the only saving grace for the trolley-dolly is that they generally only carry small bottles of normal strength lager, and not in any great quantity. Once it's gone it's gone.

But then I don't think it makes much difference whether it's there or not. Most of the trouble is caused by folk who were drunk even before they got onto the train and may just be using the trolley to keep themselves topped-up (assuming they haven't brought their own onto the train with them). I have never heard of anyone boarding a train sober and getting plastered en route. Therefore, a ban on the sale of alcohol on trains would make little or no difference.

As for dealing with those drunk when they board, well there's little you can do about it without getting very draconian. If you banned drunks from travelling by train there's a risk they'd drive instead. Even TfL, who banned people from drinking on the Tube, haven't taken any action to deal with people who are already drunk because it's just not possible.

But then the vast majority of folk who travel when under the influence cause no problems whatsoever. They're just good-natured, a bit loud but otherwise well-behaved. It's just the rowdy few who usually travel in groups who cause all the aggravation. And when that happens, well it's very poor odds as far as the traincrew are concerned, as has already been explained.

O L Leigh

 

[scotsman]

I have never heard of anyone boarding a train sober and getting plastered en route. Therefore, a ban on the sale of alcohol on trains would make little or no difference.

I've seen it done, a group of 4 or so lads heading back to Newcastle on the 1400 off the Cross back in 2008 - they must have bought half a catering crate of cider, then another 8 cans of Stella (or, if you prefer, wife beater)

But then the vast majority of folk who travel when under the influence cause no problems whatsoever. They're just good-natured, a bit loud but otherwise well-behaved. It's just the rowdy few who usually travel in groups who cause all the aggravation. And when that happens, well it's very poor odds as far as the traincrew are concerned, as has already been explained.

I've never seen trouble on late night trains, usually when I'm a bit tipsy myself, but I've never seen a Conductor come down after 9pm

 

[BestWestern]

I don't think it makes much difference whether it's there or not. Most of the trouble is caused by folk who were drunk even before they got onto the train and may just be using the trolley to keep themselves topped-up (assuming they haven't brought their own onto the train with them). I have never heard of anyone boarding a train sober and getting plastered en route. Therefore, a ban on the sale of alcohol on trains would make little or no difference.

As for dealing with those drunk when they board, well there's little you can do about it without getting very draconian. If you banned drunks from travelling by train there's a risk they'd drive instead. Even TfL, who banned people from drinking on the Tube, haven't taken any action to deal with people who are already drunk because it's just not possible.

But then the vast majority of folk who travel when under the influence cause no problems whatsoever. They're just good-natured, a bit loud but otherwise well-behaved. It's just the rowdy few who usually travel in groups who cause all the aggravation. And when that happens, well it's very poor odds as far as the traincrew are concerned, as has already been explained.

O L Leigh

Banning onboard sales wouldn't make a huge impact in itself, but would be a helpful part of a bigger strategy, seeing as having alcohol on board by whatever means certainly fuels the 'atmosphere' that these people enjoy bringing onboard with them. Of course, you can't have an army of BTP lining every platform on a weekend, but a national policy of people being asked to leave their booze behind, plus tougher action against those who are drunk enough to cause problems, would be a big help. As with so much of the alcohol-fuelled issues in the world, much of the battle is about awareness of what will and won't be tolerated.

A risk of people driving instead is not a risk the railway needs to be concerned with; drunk or not, grown adults have the troublesome quandry of being responsible for their own actions.

 

[yorksrob]

Banning onboard sales wouldn't make a huge impact in itself, but would be a helpful part of a bigger strategy. seeing as having alcohol on board by whatever means certainly fuels the 'atmosphere' that these people enjoy bringing onboard with them. Of course, you can't have an army of BTP lining every platform on a weekend, but a national policy of people being asked to leave their booze behind, plus tougher action against those who are already drunk enough to cause problems, would be a big help. As with so much of the alcohol-fuelled issues in the world, much of the battle is about awareness of what will and won't be tolerated.

I don't think stopping people enjoying a quiet drink would help much. Punishing troublemakers would be much better and would make an example.

 

[175001]

I've worked a train full of United fans back from Blackburn tonight. All credit to them, yes the majority were intoxicated but they were well behaved due to the BTP presence, but without um it could have been a different.

But as others have said my safety is my 1st priority and without me, you're going nowhere

 

[jon0844]

they must have bought half a catering crate of cider, then another 8 cans of Stella (or, if you prefer, wife beater)

They seem to be pushing Stella 4 around here (and where I was in Wales), which is weaker and should probably be called wife slapper!

 

[yorksrob]

They seem to be pushing Stella 4 around here (and where I was in Wales), which is weaker and should probably be called wife slapper!

Fortunately when I visit my parents in South Eastern land they actually sell something drinkeable. Had a very nice bottle of Shepherd Neame's Christmas ale which I'd never tried before last time I came back.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was it true that when British Rail ran the railways, that they had a training school in Glasgow, where after much training in humour and singing and intoxication, the successful candidates were then given "Drunken Scotsmen" cabaret spots on all the best loaded trains. I think that they were told to address anyone who spoke to them as "Jimmy".

 

[londonbridge]

Even TfL, who banned people from drinking on the Tube, haven't taken any action to deal with people who are already drunk because it's just not possible.

Maybe I haven't been looking hard enough or in the right places but I have yet to read a report of someone being prosecuted for drinking on the underground.

 

[Anon Mouse]

I have never heard of anyone boarding a train sober and getting plastered en route. Therefore, a ban on the sale of alcohol on trains would make little or no difference.

Mr Mouse, Caledonian Sleeper sometime in 2007. Boarded at London Euston, 2nd bottle of wine and 3rd Whiskey later and the berth was spinning!

But I was a well behaved drunk and as soon as I realised I was at the point of no return I retired to my berth and woke with a hangover and no fellow passengers upset!

Anyway I'm digressing from the topic being discussed. I returned from Wembley last weekend and dispite me drinking a fair bit of sauce myself and my travelling companions did not sing, swear, shout, abuse the Guard, abuse the trolley staff, fight, vomit or do anything that the sterotypical drunks I had on my train last night, or any Friday or Saturday night for that matter

 

[merlodlliw]

They seem to be pushing Stella 4 around here (and where I was in Wales), which is weaker and should probably be called wife slapper!

Unless the women drink it, then its partner slapper, love the name of the South Wales cider "Taffyapples"

Alas no brewery's left in Wrexham, just imported "skull attack" from Cardiff brewed by huntos.

Bob

 

[Greenback]

I have seen many well behaved but intoxicated people on trains. Mrs Greenback and myself may even have occasionally fallen into this category whenr eturning home from Swansea or Cardiff after a day and night out!

Most of these sleep, or talk quietly rather than shouting, singing and swearing. Naturally, it;s usually people in larger groups rather than singles or coupels that ar elikely to make more noise. But while people on their own or in two's can still be obnoxious through drink, it is the groups that cause other passengers to be fearful about what might happen.

 

[LE Greys]

Anything stopping at Newcastle on a Friday night (including up expresses from Aberdeen as I well know) can get very lively. I tend to follow one of three policies, depending on whether I'm carrying anything valuable. Go to the buffet and don't come back, wait for the next station and switch coaches or pretend to be asleep. Thing is, usually it's pretty harmless. For strange behaviour and sheer volume, the worst one tend to be hen night groups (astonishing the distance some of them travel) followed by parties of middle-aged and supposedly respectable people with bottles of wine. They've presumably just been released from work and they're heading for London, accompanied by about half a gallon of wine. You won't believe the stuff they talk about, male and female, shouted at full volume down coaches sometimes. Mostly, it's about people they know from work and various things they want to do to them. Only time I've ever seen anything resembling an on-board fight was when someone didn't realise the bloke he was going on about was sitting two rows behind him, and we soon found them facing off in mid corridor with (presumably) wives trying to stop them laying into each other. Luckily, we stopped at York and they were swamped by people leaving the coach.

And this was GNER.

 

[trainophile]

Perhaps if they sold tea and coffee for 50p instead of over three times that much, people might not feel so obligated to hit the hard stuff.

Or am I being naive? :roll:

 

[Flamingo]

Perhaps if they sold tea and coffee for 50p instead of over three times that much, people might not feel so obligated to hit the hard stuff.

Or am I being naive? :roll:

Yes.

 

[trainophile]

Yes.

Fairy nuff . I'm one of those annoying old f*rts who always brings a flask of coffee and a box of butties when I travel. I do feel smug though when there is no trolley service!

Back to the topic - I don't understand why alcohol needs to be sold on trains anyway. If people are that desperate they can bring their own on board (although arguably I'm not in favour of that either, but appreciate it would be impossible to police).

I've seen people get absolutely tanked up between Hereford and Chester, then pour themselves onto the Merseyrail service to Liverpool, only to find they have to get off before their destination as the trains don't have toilets!

Why can't people just enjoy being sober for a change? I have to declare an interest as I packed up booze completely three and a half years ago, and never feel the slightest wish to take it up again.