Dual voltage Desiros and Electrostars

[Daimler]

Desiro, hands down for me - and not just when it comes to changeover time. They're more spacious, ride better, have more comfortable seats, feel more solid overall, and make a really 'fun' noise. Electrostars taper irritatingly (why? why take away useful passenger space? they don't tilt!) and the doors rattle whenever they pass trains going the other way - a sure-fire sign of poor refinement.

It's a shame, as I believe Electrostars should be the obvious choice, made in Britain as they are.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Electrostars taper irritatingly (why? why take away useful passenger space? they don't tilt!)

Isn't this to do with the fact they were designed to work in the Snow Hill tunnels and the restrictive gauge that brings with it.

 

[will1337]

Desiro, hands down for me - and not just when it comes to changeover time. They're more spacious, ride better, have more comfortable seats, feel more solid overall, and make a really 'fun' noise.

I'd agree on the noise but disagree on everything else apart from the build quality. Desiros do seem damn solid, but I'm sure it depends on the type for the seats. The 377/3s? I think that are 2x3 seating aren't as pleasant at all as the 2x2 377s with a lot of table seating. They seem so much more of an amiable environment to be in. The 444s I also vastly prefer to the 450s because of the seating again and the seats being a lot more padded. 450 seats are pretty hard.

 

[Daimler]

I'd agree on the noise but disagree on everything else apart from the build quality. Desiros do seem damn solid, but I'm sure it depends on the type for the seats. The 377/3s? I think that are 2x3 seating aren't as pleasant at all as the 2x2 377s with a lot of table seating. They seem so much more of an amiable environment to be in. The 444s I also vastly prefer to the 450s because of the seating again and the seats being a lot more padded. 450 seats are pretty hard.

Oh, but they are more spacious - by which I mean the 'volume' as it were of the interior compartment - they have more-or-less a square cross-section, and I'm always amazed at how much of a difference it makes when I go in an Electrostar and see how cramped it feels.

 

[chuffchuff]

It always amazes me how everybody in the Govt and health sevices
say we all are getting fatter, and they make 375's 3 inches narrower

It's the air suspension they flop about more, so the kinetic envelope is
larger
Oh and I've slept on concrete walls that are softer than 375/9 seats

 

[Pumbaa]

Just to bump this thread up again.

This morning I had quite possibly the most fun Desiro run of my life. It was 1hr20 late into Hemel, and my first thought was "it's not stopping". Needless to say, it carried on this way all journey. Last minute braking, full acceleration meant we made up 20 mins by Clapham. My favourite stop was Harrow; doors were released. The door behind me opened, and as it was opening the door closing chime kicked in. Thankfully not many passengers were boarding!

Most importantly though - the AC/DC changeover was carried out at 40mph! I was open-mouthed, particularly as the driver left it until Shepherds Bush flyover was in site before dropping the Panto.

I went to see him on arrival into Clapham. He just grinned and said "no point wasting 3-4 mins when you can do it on the fly". Bloody good guy, and if you're reading this then thank you very much for a bloody good trip!

 

[starrymarkb]

Eurostars drop their pans as they pass dollands moor for the change in catnery height (lgv to shuttle gauge)

also for pans down on the move just watch trains arriving at Domodossola on the Simplon route. FS trains (3kv DC) have to get their pans down as they enter the platform as halfway along the platform the voltage changes to 15kv AC for SBB. Leave the pan up and you'll have a fried locomotive. Each network has a shunter to detach the locomotive and give it a running shove back to the right side of the station

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywebgallery/3577944653/sizes/l/

 

[mackenzie_blu]

I recently was on a 378 during a AC/DC changeover as it was as quick as a Desiro and even the PIS system worked liked a Desiro. Why couldn't they have done this with the 377/5's????

 

[Daimler]

Just to bump this thread up again.

This morning I had quite possibly the most fun Desiro run of my life. It was 1hr20 late into Hemel, and my first thought was "it's not stopping". Needless to say, it carried on this way all journey. Last minute braking, full acceleration meant we made up 20 mins by Clapham. My favourite stop was Harrow; doors were released. The door behind me opened, and as it was opening the door closing chime kicked in. Thankfully not many passengers were boarding!

Most importantly though - the AC/DC changeover was carried out at 40mph! I was open-mouthed, particularly as the driver left it until Shepherds Bush flyover was in site before dropping the Panto.

I went to see him on arrival into Clapham. He just grinned and said "no point wasting 3-4 mins when you can do it on the fly". Bloody good guy, and if you're reading this then thank you very much for a bloody good trip!

You're joking! Much more like it - why don;'t the always do it!

They are quick when the drivers want them to be, there's no doubt!

 

[Fincra5]

Or wire up the Southern region.

NO! The southern region would look awful if it were OLE. At least with 3rd rail you don't have to run DMUs or have the ghastly OLE gantries all over the country side.

Also for me the electrostar wins. 2+2 seating is quite comfortable, especially with a table. The desiros are too noisy and fat . Plus when the door release sounds it deafens you.

 

[O L Leigh]

At least with 3rd rail you don't have to run DMUs.

*Checks Fincra5's avatar*

Um... :roll:

O L Leigh

 

[Fincra5]

*Checks Fincra5's avatar*

Um... :roll:

O L Leigh

I'm not saying i prefer EMUs I like the 171 over the 377 anyday. I was just saying you dont have to run DMUs :P.

 

[O L Leigh]

I'm afraid your point is lost on me.

Where a service runs off the electrification a DMU is required, irrespective of the type of electrification used. You don't have to run a DMU where there is OLE either.

O L Leigh

 

[Daimler]

NO! The southern region would look awful if it were OLE. At least with 3rd rail you don't have to run DMUs or have the ghastly OLE gantries all over the country side.

Also for me the electrostar wins. 2+2 seating is quite comfortable, especially with a table. The desiros are too noisy and fat . Plus when the door release sounds it deafens you.

Have you sampled the joys of Southern's 'astroturf' or 'insipid green sandpaper' moquette?

Desiros are noiser, there's no doubt - but not from inside!

 

[Fincra5]

Yes i have. However that seems to be more on the high density trains in metro areas of london. Which were built to southern specs. Where as most of the ones down here wre built to connex spec.

 

[starrymarkb]

At least with 3rd rail you don't have to run DMUs

So the 10 coach 158/159 formations running on the SWML are not supposed to be there?

 

[MCR247]

And the 171s you have in your picture

 

[Fincra5]

Yes i know i have already answered that i have the class 171. As i prefer it to a class 377. And i said you DONT HAVE to, which doesnt mean that do or don't. SWT doesnt have to run all the way to london but it does to create and drect service........ Same with southern, Brighton to ashford.

 

[Helvellyn]

Yes i have. However that seems to be more on the high density trains in metro areas of london. Which were built to southern specs. Where as most of the ones down here wre built to connex spec.

Well it seems likely the 377/3 units will be reconfigured for metro services as part of Southern's new franchise, and it looks like 508s/313s will be coming to the Coastway services!

Southern have also committed to an interior refurbishment of the 377 fleet, so I guess you'll have to hope they just use their astroturf moquette on the 377/1s and don't reconfigure them like the 377/4s.



I'd have to say I do prefer a Desiro over an Electrostar, though the Desiro pays for this in weight - they are heavy!

I'd also say the Pennine (Class 185 DMU Desiro) is more comfortable than a TuroStar.

 

[SWT Driver]

I hope the driver who did the AC/DC switchover "on the fly" was allowed to otherwise you could have dropped him right in the brown stuff. :roll:

 

[O L Leigh]

I believe you can switch from AC to DC on the move without problems, as long as you shut off power first. It's just going back onto the AC again that you have to stop for, as it risks damaging the pan and/or the OLE.

O L Leigh

 

[73110]

Misread post.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

Just to bump this thread up again.

This morning I had quite possibly the most fun Desiro run of my life. It was 1hr20 late into Hemel, and my first thought was "it's not stopping". Needless to say, it carried on this way all journey. Last minute braking, full acceleration meant we made up 20 mins by Clapham. My favourite stop was Harrow; doors were released. The door behind me opened, and as it was opening the door closing chime kicked in. Thankfully not many passengers were boarding!

Most importantly though - the AC/DC changeover was carried out at 40mph! I was open-mouthed, particularly as the driver left it until Shepherds Bush flyover was in site before dropping the Panto.

I went to see him on arrival into Clapham. He just grinned and said "no point wasting 3-4 mins when you can do it on the fly". Bloody good guy, and if you're reading this then thank you very much for a bloody good trip!

brilliant lol!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Desiro, hands down for me - and not just when it comes to changeover time. They're more spacious, ride better, have more comfortable seats, feel more solid overall, and make a really 'fun' noise. Electrostars taper irritatingly (why? why take away useful passenger space? they don't tilt!) and the doors rattle whenever they pass trains going the other way - a sure-fire sign of poor refinement.

It's a shame, as I believe Electrostars should be the obvious choice, made in Britain as they are.

Lol our class 314s over here the doors rattle about when its going fast

I find the electric 450s and 444s very nice to be on. Barely know youre moving until you look out the Window. We're getting the 380s soon up here in Scotland, I reckon it will be much of the same!

 

[jopsuk]

I believe you can switch from AC to DC on the move without problems, as long as you shut off power first. It's just going back onto the AC again that you have to stop for, as it risks damaging the pan and/or the OLE.

O L Leigh

THought the Eurostars did that switch on the move, back before St Pancras Int opened?

 

[MCR247]

AFAIK 377s didnt run with FCC before St Pancras Intl was opened?

 

[Helvellyn]

I find the electric 450s and 444s very nice to be on. Barely know youre moving until you look out the Window. We're getting the 380s soon up here in Scotland, I reckon it will be much of the same!

The Class 380s are meant to start introducing some of the technology that Siemens will use in the DesiroCity (being proposed for Thameslink), so will take the best of the original Desiro units and marry them with some of the improvements for the next generation of units.

Shame Alstom ran into so many problems with the Coradia, Atlante and Juniper families. SWT ordered 30 Junipers, and it is likely they'd have gone with that family for their slam door replacement. But there were so many issues they jumped ship and went with Siemens. Now a 458 is a very noisey ride inside!

 

[O L Leigh]

THought the Eurostars did that switch on the move, back before St Pancras Int opened?

I've said this before on a number of ocassions, but it would appear it needs to be said again. You can drop a pan on the move but you can't raise one. If you do you risk damaging the pan and/or the OLE, and possibly even causing a dewirement. The ONLY exception to this is Eurostar which has a more sophisticated pan and better OLE.

 

[Aictos]

AFAIK 377s didnt run with FCC before St Pancras Intl was opened?

That's right, all we ran on the Thameslink were 319s and the loaned 317s - we only started using the 377s when they got introduced this year.

I'm sure Mackenzie Blu can go into further detail though!

 

[mackenzie_blu]

O L Leigh says it best. I *believe* the Eurostars used to change over just after they left the tunnel. Can anyone confirm/correct me on this?

The 319's Im told used to go through Farringdon non-stop back in pre Thameslink (the TOC, not the service) days but Thameslink decided on an outright ban. although 377213 has tried to not drop its pan at Farringdon.

And the 377 didn't start until 19th March 2009 on Thameslink. St Pancras International (Low Level) opened in November 2007?

 

[starrymarkb]

Eurostars did indeed change between the tunnel and dollands moor. they also change from 25kV to 3kV DC on the move when they leave the Belgian high speed line

They do still drop and raise the pans for the change from LGV to Eurotunnel height catnery too - I presume the wires around the changeover zones are reinforced and more regirously monitored