dubious use of booked assists???

[andrea10]

Does anyone have any experience of helping people that have booked assistance for boarding or alighting trains who seem to not actually need the assistance?

This seems to be a frequent occurance at my station and I was wondering whether this has caught on at other stations?

The main misuse of the assists seems to be from the more mature generation, many of which are turning up to my station wheeling their luggage, but then request a chaperone/usher to carry their luggage and to lead them to the platform. Then put their luggage and them onboard the train and then locate their seats and put their luggage in the racks.

The dubious part of this is that they are booking the assists under the option of "mobility impaired" yet when they arrive at the station, many of them appear to be walking at the same speed and fitness as some of the staff providing the assistance.

The bulk of them turn up to my station wheeling their own luggage, but then have booked assistance with luggage from the point of turning up. Some individuals have family members with them and have booked assists also. I had a few assists where a family member was sat parked in their car on the station carpark, yet I had to assist with luggage?

Also, not long ago someone had booked a luggage assist where I had to carry a holdall onto the platforms and the train, where the passenger and two young family members who appeared to be fit travelling with them, just watched and chatted.


Sorry if I am moaning, but the questions I am raising are: Is there such a thing as a luggage assist (or are they selecting the mobility impaired option, in our emails it comes up as this)? Whether there is a charge for this, as some use it for convienience? and whether this is a widespread thing.....word is getting around between the older generations and seem to be using this as a matter of convienience rather than that they need it.

N.B This post is about luggage assists and nothing whatsoever to do with genuine people with disabilities and needs.

Thank you

These assists are clashing with my despatching

 

[185]

Reminds me of an episode of Come fly with me :P

 

[andrea10]

I haven't seen that....what happens?

 

[sheff1]

Sorry if I am moaning, but the questions I am raising are: Is there such a thing as a luggage assist (or are they selecting the mobility impaired option, in our emails it comes up as this)? Whether there is a charge for this, as some use it for convienience? (

A quick check on Cross Country shows 'Do you require help with your luggage ?' as an option under the General Assistance heading. This is separate to the Mobility Assitance section. I do not believe there is a charge so, no doubt, some use it merely as a convenience.

I am old enough to remember when all major stations, and many lesser ones, had porters on hand to assist passengers with their luggage. These people were, of course, made redundant on efficiency grounds. The normal thing was to offer the porter a tip, although this was not compulsory. Do any of the people you assist offer a tip nowadays ?

 

[andrea10]

A quick check on Cross Country shows 'Do you require help with your luggage ?' as an option under the General Assistance heading. This is separate to the Mobility Assitance section. I do not believe there is a charge so, no doubt, some use it merely as a convenience.

I am old enough to remember when all major stations, and many lesser ones, had porters on hand to assist passengers with their luggage. These people were, of course, made redundant on efficiency grounds. The normal thing was to offer the porter a tip, although this was not compulsory. Do any of the people you assist offer a tip nowadays ?

No, we are not allowed to accept tips, it would lead to an instant dissmissal- this is the case for all companies I believe. But why if the Porters from yesteryear were made redundant are we, the despatchers doubling up as one?

 

[sheff1]

As I said, it was on the grounds of 'efficiency'. Why pay two people when one could do both jobs.

Just to be clear, the above 'reason' is not one I accept as valid

Very surpised to hear you cannot accept tips. What is the thinking behind that and do people still try to offer one ?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

No, we are not allowed to accept tips, it would lead to an instant dissmissal- this is the case for all companies I believe. But why if the Porters from yesteryear were made redundant are we, the despatchers doubling up as one?

That might not be the case for catering staff, and is not for staff on the Caledonian Sleeper.

I actually wrote to First ScotRail asking if it would be permissible to tip staff on the Caley Sleeper, and this was the response:

I can confirm that sleeper staff can accept tips if the passenger wishes to give them one, it is then up to the individual staff member whether they accept the tip.

 

[AlexS]

As I said, it was on the grounds of 'efficiency'. Why pay two people when one could do both jobs.

Just to be clear, the above 'reason' is not one I accept as valid

Very surpised to hear you cannot accept tips. What is the thinking behind that and do people still try to offer one ?

Certainly it's in my contract that we may not accept cash gratuities but may accept gifts of negligible value eg pens.

As for assists, the regular dubious ones we weed out. And dispatching always takes priority as a safety procedure.

 

[andrea10]

How do you weed them out if they have pre-booked? Increasing numbers of our train despatches now clash with assists coming through on email, and these trains have to self despatch

 

[Goatboy]

Perhaps people requesting assistance should be required to attend an interview with yourself and your colleagues so you can first deem whether you personally feel they are worthy of using the services the TOC advertises or not?

If I was you I'd be pleased the service was well-used as it makes the job you and your colleagues do more important to your employers!

 

[Lrd]

With regards to tips, we are allowed to accept small tokens of appreciation but anything 'big' has to be declared to the company. I tend not to accept tips as I don't help people just to get a tip, I do it as part of my job and already get paid enough. The odd 50p/£1 doesn't really go very far these days. I appreciate the offer and thank them for it but never take any money.

With regards to luggage, if it's the elderly then you need to remember a lot of them get tired a lot quicker than us younguns and they may have travelled a fair distance or going to be travelling a long way and need to preserve their energy, this obviously doesn't apply to everyone but the majority are honest. I will always offer assistance to anyone who looks like they may need it, this could be absolutely anyone! I never question why someone needs help, just get on with it and with a smile, the reason they've asked for help is probably they could just do with a hand, they just need someone to calm them down and reassure them everything is fine.

 

[Qwerty133]

As I said, it was on the grounds of 'efficiency'. Why pay two people when one could do both jobs.

Just to be clear, the above 'reason' is not one I accept as valid

Very surpised to hear you cannot accept tips. What is the thinking behind that and do people still try to offer one ?

And at unstaffed stations some guards seem to think why leave the cab when I can make an announcement asking a passenger to help 'the lady with the guide dog' off the train, I suppose some would see this as another effociancy saving wouldn't they.

 

[Mojo]

My first railway job was providing mobility assistance and customer care at a major station (I was employed by a Toc mentioned in this thread). At that station, luggage trolleys were not available for the public so people that had huge amounts of luggage had to request assistance from a member of staff. I remember a couple of times having to request assistance from a colleague as people had so much stuff! We would then get out those old fashioned trolleys you see in the old black & white movies.

Some days I felt a bit like this:

 

[Michael.Y]

I'd say that a station should have enough staff to deal with assists AND despatch trains safely. There are always cleaning and catering staff on hand to assist at my home station if needed.

 

[Nym]

Well, for someone with difficulty walking (but you wouldn't know it to look at them) I booked mobility assistance from KGX to NCL.

KGX we where treated like a burden (24 and 17 year old) and spent more time waiting around and was actually more unconformtable travelling than if doing so alone.

NCL, by the time the assistance had arrived said disabled pax had already exited the train and was on the T&W Metro to get back home...

Efficent to book in advance? Really?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well, for someone with difficulty walking (but you wouldn't know it to look at them) I booked mobility assistance from KGX to NCL.

KGX we where treated like a burden (24 and 17 year old) and spent more time waiting around and was actually more unconformtable travelling than if doing so alone.

NCL, by the time the assistance had arrived said disabled pax had already exited the train and was on the T&W Metro to get back home...

Efficent to book in advance? Really?

dont worry, in my experience no matter weather they have 5 weeks, 5 days or 5 hours notice staff at KGX couldnt care less, I now avoid it by using EUS where NR do assists or by changing at PBO and again at Finsbery PK for the Vic.
NCL I am surprised about.

Back on topic there needs to be a seperate booking system for luggage assists as many station staff I have spoken with say knowing whats a disabled person and whats just a luggage assist would help them work better. The aviation industry has this cracked for say elderly pax who can navigate the airport no bother but need help from the baggage belt to there onward travel with cases etc.

 

[Deerfold]

Back on topic there needs to be a seperate booking system for luggage assists as many station staff I have spoken with say knowing whats a disabled person and whats just a luggage assist would help them work better. The aviation industry has this cracked for say elderly pax who can navigate the airport no bother but need help from the baggage belt to there onward travel with cases etc.

Parts of it may have but we booked assistance for my father-in-law on a recent trip to Venice.

He became most frustrated at being wheeled all through the airport in Venice and after we'd been left at the departure gate told me he wished we hadn;t booked assistance as "he felt like a fraud". I asked him if he'd have been able to stand for an hour queuing for security (there had been problems due to the weather delaying many flights) and he said "of course not". We'd only been offered one level of assistance so accepted it all.

Some years ago I travelled on the Orient express with my wife and her grandmother. We booked assistance for her - she has severly impaired vision and her mobility varies widely from day to day - and also on where she needed to go. Steps were a big problem whilst sometimes on the flat on a good day she could move at quite a pace. At Vienna she really needed the assistance whilst I have vivid memories of two staff chasing down Folkestone Harbour platform after her with a wheelchair...

 

[trentside]

Reminds me of an episode of Come fly with me :P

I remember that one, as the guy they were sending up was a real guy off Airport who worked for Air Canada or American - can't remember which, but he was so sycophantic it was untrue!

On the whole, most people I see with booked assists seem to have a genuine need for it. We get the occasional ad-hoc request and will oblige if at all possible, it depends on the time of day and how busy the platform staff already are.

 

[trainophile]

Given the number of stations where you are pre-warned on arrival to "please take care when alighting, due to the large gap between the train and the platform edge", it's hardly surprising that some people, especially elderly or infirm, would appreciate help with just getting their luggage on and/or off the train, even when they are perfectly capable of managing the rest of their journey's manoeuvres.

I sometimes struggle with this if my bag or case is on the heavy side, but so far I manage unaided. Give it another five years though, and I'll probably be hoping for a kindly younger passenger or staff member to help.

Would be good if non-commuter trains had a steward on board as well as the TM, who could assist with stowing luggage in the appropriate areas and overhead racks, as well as getting it on and off the train. Sometimes it seems that train travel is designed to be a younger person's pastime these days!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Deerfold
I feel your pain. Some carriers, Ryanair and Jet2 being particularly bad only have the 1 level of help and having investigated after a past Humiliation (I am Blind but walking, Escalaters, travelaters etc are not a problem to me) was told its all about the SLA contract set up with the handling agent at the airport. Stansted is notorius for this as an airport but dependant on airline youll most likely be ok.

Now a Question foq anyone round here familier with making assist bookings with the new Passenger Assist System - if a customer calls or books at in advance at a station stating they want luggage help only is that noted through it or another means?

 

[AlexS]

All assistance bookings come through on the same sheet if that's what you mean.

The ones completed by a human being from 'the railway' are actually sometimes the worst to try and translate, as they insist on using irritating abbreviations that presumably mean something to them and absolutely nothing to the staff on the ground.

'JNC' and 'Please help with luggage etc at all points' are particularly annoying - if they didn't want help they wouldn't be on the sheet and I have no idea what JNC means. There isn't enough room on the sheet for the junk they print anyway so it usually misses out useful things like seat reservation numbers in favour of some irrelevant crap that states the obvious.

You effectively get:

Name
Type of assistance (Visually impaired, optional guide dog; own wheelchair user; BR (station) wheelchair required; luggage assistance; mobility issues - ramp (not) required; hearing impaired; learning difficulties) - any combination of these plus a few more.
Journey leg start: EG Dep Euston at 08:00
Journey leg finish: EG Arr Birmingham New Street at 09:20
Meeting point: usually left blank
Contact number: usually left blank
Assistance reference number: 20130412*******
Miscellaneous comments - helpful to have seat numbers etc in here, usually gets filled with junk instead, system can't tell between out and return journeys so it cuts off the end if there's a few changes to make over both legs. eg EUS seat A31A BHM seat A31A BHM no seat res SHR no seat res SHR no seat res WVH no seat res WVH seat B31A EUS seat<end>

Passenger journey start: London Euston Passenger Journey finish: Craven Arms.

Of course sometimes particularly on the ones passengers fill out themselves they pick the wrong option, so you expect just to have to shift a suitcase and you end up having to guide a visually impaired person as well. I personally just use them as a rough guide and take them as I find them. But it makes no distinction between the disabled and those who just require a hand as it were - if they've taken the trouble to ask in advance I have no general issue providing whatever help is required. The exception being when they're dodgy bookings to rinse compensation for a failed assist that the passenger goes out of their way to make sure it fails.

Whenever I meet a passenger I always ask them what help they need from me as that's the best way to provide the most appropriate service. If they then guide me through their requirements I can help them where needed and they can manage whatever tasks they choose themselves. Assumption is never a good thing.

 

[gingerheid]

As for assists, the regular dubious ones we weed out.

How can you tell? My mother has a hidden disability plus the bonus of looking about 15 years younger than she is, and regular attempts to "weed her out" have led to:

- Her turning up in all sorts of places in the NW of England when she hasn't been able to get off trains in time when people fail to turn up to assist her.
- Furious complaints are for practical purposes completely ignored (that is to say we get a meaningless apology and then the same thing happens next time)
- Even more furious complains when some ****** tried to charge her standard open single for the journey she didn't want to make
- Her getting abuse from railway staff

And ultimately:
- her having to be driving places rather than being able to travel to see relatives independently.

 

[barrykas]

'JNC' and 'Please help with luggage etc at all points' are particularly annoying - if they didn't want help they wouldn't be on the sheet and I have no idea what JNC means. There isn't enough room on the sheet for the junk they print anyway so it usually misses out useful things like seat reservation numbers in favour of some irrelevant crap that states the obvious.

JNC is "Journeycare", part of Virgin Trains IIRC, who handle assistance bookings for a number of TOCs.

Miscellaneous comments - helpful to have seat numbers etc in here, usually gets filled with junk instead, system can't tell between out and return journeys so it cuts off the end if there's a few changes to make over both legs. eg EUS seat A31A BHM seat A31A BHM no seat res SHR no seat res SHR no seat res WVH no seat res WVH seat B31A EUS seat<end>

That seems a retrograde step to me...APRS recorded the Retail Service ID(s) (useless to most people!) and reservation(s) separately from any comments.

 

[Blindtraveler]

This is facinating!
Wasnt aware Pax could self complete these, is it through eac TOCs website or a seperate one? I generally just phone up!

 

[EM2]

I'd always assumed that JNC were the initials of whoever did the input!
What annoys me most is where 'Type Of Assistance' is e.g. Elderly or Mobility Impaired and then in the comments is 'wheelchair user requires ramps at all points'. It's all too easy to miss something important in the comments.
This is especially infuriating for me, because part of my job is to take all that info and put it into a spreadsheet, to minimise the amount of paperwork our CSAs have to carry around.

 

[AlexS]

How can you tell? My mother has a hidden disability plus the bonus of looking about 15 years younger than she is, and regular attempts to "weed her out" have led to:

- Her turning up in all sorts of places in the NW of England when she hasn't been able to get off trains in time when people fail to turn up to assist her.
- Furious complaints are for practical purposes completely ignored (that is to say we get a meaningless apology and then the same thing happens next time)
- Even more furious complains when some ****** tried to charge her standard open single for the journey she didn't want to make
- Her getting abuse from railway staff

And ultimately:
- her having to be driving places rather than being able to travel to see relatives independently.

I used the wrong word really. We have had some specific problems with specific passengers booking assistance , then ensuring it failed to make a charter claim by for example changing carriages and claiming they weren't met and clearing off alone rather than approaching someone. There were also claims of accidents occurring when the passenger wasn't met which were disproved by CCTV (for example one claimed to have fallen off the platform!!).

I was more referring to this kind of action that is akin to delay repay fraud than being selective about your bookings, because you cant and I'm sorry about not being clear. Having missed the odd assist job myself (all additional rather than booked - we are only human and sometimes things go wrong) I know the distress it causes and always own up to it and arrange help. The last one I rang control and the train manager and we provided a taxi from the next stop to their front door. On that occasion though 3 additional people asked for assistance on 2 trains with slam doors to the same destination within 10 minutes and I missed one while single manned and dispatching late at night.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

JNC is "Journeycare", part of Virgin Trains IIRC, who handle assistance bookings for a number of TOCs.



That seems a retrograde step to me...APRS recorded the Retail Service ID(s) (useless to most people!) and reservation(s) separately from any comments.

There may be a separate section actually, I'll have a look later - a lot don't seem to use it though and just bung it in the comments.

 

[barrykas]

This is facinating!
Wasnt aware Pax could self complete these, is it through eac TOCs website or a seperate one? I generally just phone up!

The booking form is linked from the Disabled Persons Railcard website.

 

[Blindtraveler]

thanks!

 

[455driver]

I was once delayed at a station for 4 minutes because the guard had to get 4 wheel chairs off by himself (late night, station unstaffed).

I thought he did well at only 4 minutes considering the wheelchairs were in the second and sixth carriages, and no I couldnt help because there was only 1 ramp otherwise I would have done the front 2 myself.

 

[Wolfie]

How can you tell? My mother has a hidden disability plus the bonus of looking about 15 years younger than she is, and regular attempts to "weed her out" have led to:

- Her turning up in all sorts of places in the NW of England when she hasn't been able to get off trains in time when people fail to turn up to assist her.
- Furious complaints are for practical purposes completely ignored (that is to say we get a meaningless apology and then the same thing happens next time)
- Even more furious complains when some ****** tried to charge her standard open single for the journey she didn't want to make
- Her getting abuse from railway staff

And ultimately:
- her having to be driving places rather than being able to travel to see relatives independently.

Hum, in that situation engage with the group which covers her particular disability and ensure that they not only engage with the TOC but clearly mention the Equality Act and the likelihood, unless things change, of a complaint to the Equality and Human Right Commission. Believe me when I say that neither a TOC nor Network Rail would want to be on the receiving end of an investigation from the latter body.....