Duplicate season ticket - exchange/refund help

[Adara]

Hi there,

Apologies if this has been asked a million times before - I ran a few searches but couldn't really find what I was looking for.

I have an annual season ticket from London zones 2-6 to Brighton, which is paid for by a loan from my employer. A couple of months ago I lost the ticket (at least, thought I had) and applied for a replacement. I got the replacement and have since decided to move back to London. The season ticket runs out at the end of March next year, so that's around £1800 or so.

I took the ticket to the ticket office in Victoria and was told about the part of the terms of carriage that I was previously unaware of, meaning that I couldn't get a refund on the ticket.

Southern customer services were very helpful and said that this is a common problem they have, and advised me to gather evidence that I wasn't going to be living in Brighton anymore e.g. a letter from the letting agent confirming I had ended my tenancy. He also advised that I might be able to exchange my ticket for one I could use in London, like a travelcard, and get the difference refunded.

When I went back to the flat in Brighton to start packing my stuff up, I found my original season ticket. I felt utterly stupid but super happy as I thought this would mean that I could get the refund, as the guy I spoke to at customer services explained that the terms of carriage for the duplicate tickets was there to prevent fraud e.g. someone having found my ticket and using it, or me secretly keeping it to use.

So I went back to Victoria today, where the cashier told me that wasn't the case. He refused to advise me on what I could do to appeal or as an alternative, as did his 'Team leader'.

So I called customer services again to see if they could advise me what I could do. The woman I spoke to at first misunderstood what I meant entirely (I'm still not sure what she thought I meant), insinuated that I was lying about what the previous customer service guy had told me, told me I could exchange my ticket for another one (then retracted that when I said I get the tube) and when the penny finally dropped she went on to tell me that 'oh yes, no you CAN get a refund on a duplicate ticket. I don't know why they're saying you can't'. and proceeded to give me addresses and instructions to send my ticket off and get a full refund. I then read out the terms of carriage to her, she sounded surprised, put me on hold to speak to her supervisor and then told me that she was wrong. So I spent half an hour (on a premium rate line!) and got nowhere.

I still don't understand what my options are (if any) to claw some of my money back, or to get a ticket I can use. Surely now I've found the original then that proves I'm not just scamming them? I don't even have a use for the ticket any more but it seems no one is willing to tell me if there's anything I can do... help?

 

[jon0844]

If you've found your original ticket, I can't see why you can't present both and apply for the refund - which is still within the period where a refund can be given (it can't if you're now into the 'free' element of the annual ticket).

If the original ticket hadn't been found, I could see a problem (as it would be an obvious scam, which won't go away until we get smart tickets that can be killed) but you have both now.

 

[yorkie]

A changeover to a Season that meets your needs (e.g. a Zone 2-6 Travelcard?) would be better for you than a refund. You cannot change it to a "tube ticket" as such but it could become an in-boundary Travelcard, and of course Travelcards are valid on tubes within the stated Zones.

A season / Travelcard season may be submitted for refund before the expiry date if the passenger no longer needs it, however if the ticket is surrendered towards the latter part of its validity, there might not be any refund value left due to the fact that a season / Travelcard season ticket is a heavily discounted product.

A season ticket refund is subject to an administration charge of up to £10.

As a general rule of thumb, an annual season ticket has no refund value after 10 months 13 days. If the value is low, this timeline might be shorter due to the administration charge.

Instead of refunding the existing season ticket and purchasing a new one when a passenger’s journey requirements change, a season ticket changeover may be more appropriate.

A season ticket changeover is not subject to an administration charge, and is available provided that a minimum of one month’s validity remains on the season ticket. The new season ticket will bear the same expiry date as the original ticket.

 

[bb21]

As I understand it, you cannot get a refund on the replacement ticket if the original ticket was never found. As you have correctly guessed, this is a fraud-prevention measure.

If you have now found your original ticket, I don't see why you cannot obtain a refund on the remaining period if you hand both of them in as pointed out by jonmorris0844. Your season ticket does not expire until March, therefore you have not used more than 10 months of your ticket, meaning it still has refund values.

 

[Adara]

If you've found your original ticket, I can't see why you can't present both and apply for the refund - which is still within the period where a refund can be given (it can't if you're now into the 'free' element of the annual ticket).

If the original ticket hadn't been found, I could see a problem (as it would be an obvious scam, which won't go away until we get smart tickets that can be killed) but you have both now.

Well, that was my logic too. But the terms of carriage say "We do not normally give refunds on duplicate Season Tickets although consideration will be given if you can give written evidence of redundancy, prolonged illness or similar circumstances or if the original ticket is recovered and returned to the issuing ticket office within one month of its loss. "

Unfortunately, I found it *after* one month of its loss, so it seems like I'm screwed, but no one is willing to tell me either a) just give up and deal with it or b) there is an alternative. I've used the ticket around 6 times in the past two months. I was shocked to hear the ticket machines don't keep record of this.

 

[yorkie]

The last time a ticket was put through a gate is encoded into the ticket. So if the original ticket has not been through a gate since it was lost, that evidence will be there and will support your claim.

 

[Adara]

The last time a ticket was put through a gate is encoded into the ticket. So if the original ticket has not been through a gate since it was lost, that evidence will be there and will support your claim.

Oh really? Will that be something they check as standard if I send them both back? I'm a bit worried about sending them off and just getting nothing back at all

 

[GadgetMan]

Oh really? Will that be something they check as standard if I send them both back? I'm a bit worried about sending them off and just getting nothing back at all

If you pop down to a ticket office they should be able to swipe your original ticket and confirm what the last date it went through a barrier was. It may not gain you any advantage but at least you'll know there is some evidence that may support you should the TOC be willing to help.

 

[Adara]

If you pop down to a ticket office they should be able to swipe your original ticket and confirm what the last date it went through a barrier was. It may not gain you any advantage but at least you'll know there is some evidence that may support you should the TOC be willing to help.

Can I ask who/what the TOC is? Should I be contacting someone other than Southern's refund dept?

Also, I'm aware that I'm meant to hand in the original ticket - do they keep a record of this if you do this? I'm worried that it'll count against me if I do, in case they don't keep a record (I was told that if someone had found my ticket then it would have been destroyed with no record made so I'm worried they'll do they same if I hand it in...)

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oh, duh, train operating company (sorry, not awake yet! )

 

[34D]

Where is your new home location, and where is your new office location?

A change-over to a suitable travelcard sounds like the best option here.

Keep that original ticket safe at home, and don't use it or take it out with you.

 

[Adara]

I only need a zone 1-2 travelcard really as the stations I use are Bow Road to Barons Court. Exchanging it for that would still leave me massively out of pocket, and this is a loan from my employer so it's money that I've not paid back in full yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another key factor being that I would quite like to quit my job soon to focus on my studies and get out of a career I find incredibly stressful. If I don't get this refund then I can't leave until next February.

 

[jon0844]

If you need a season ticket with less coverage, you'll get the difference back.

 

[Adara]

If you need a season ticket with less coverage, you'll get the difference back.

Even if it's a duplicate?

 

[jon0844]

But you found the original.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Adara]

That's right, but the terms of carriage say you can only maybe get a refund if you find it within a month of filing a duplicate claim (it's been about 6 weeks) - does that not count if you're getting a partial exchange?

 

[bb21]

There is nothing to suggest that you cannot get a changeover on a replacement ticket, which is even more irrelevant now that you have found the original.

 

[barrykas]

You can get a change-over on a duplicate ticket, however if a refund is due, the value is supposed to be added to the new ticket as additional days, providing that doesn't take the validity of the new ticket over 12 months.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Adara]

You can get a change-over on a duplicate ticket, however if a refund is due, the value is supposed to be added to the new ticket as additional days, providing that doesn't take the validity of the new ticket over 12 months.

Cheers,

Barry

Thank you, that's something nobody has managed to tell me yet. Does that extend across all rail operators, do you know? I have sent a very long pleading email to Southern, awaiting a response...

 

[barrykas]

Thank you, that's something nobody has managed to tell me yet. Does that extend across all rail operators, do you know? I have sent a very long pleading email to Southern, awaiting a response...

That's the national standard defined in The Manual, which is an internal website for retail staff.

Whether most staff are aware of that rule, however, is a different matter entirely.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[rufiotgl]

Hey Adara

How did you get on with your refund??

 

[Adara]

I basically printed out my original post, emailed it to them and then they requested that I print out the email and send them my tickets. I did this, along with proof that my tenancy ended in Brighton. Still awaiting a response but basically have lost any hope of ever getting my money back

 

[rufiotgl]

have you thought of speaking to passenger focus group (http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/)?

 

[island]

Why would Adara do that? As we have already established, there is no entitlement to a refund other than at the goodwill of the train operating company.