E-bikes to be banned

[Mojo]

From BBC News: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz5p0r58go.amp

Non-folding e-bikes will be banned from 31 March on most of the Transport for London (TfL) network, it has announced.

The operator said customers travelling with these kinds of e-bikes - including ones converted to e-bikes using kits - will not be permitted to travel on most services such as the Tube, Overground, Elizabeth line and DLR.

It comes after the Aslef union said earlier this month it was considering balloting members for strike action over e-bikes being allowed on the London Underground.

TfL said it had made the decision to "ensure the safety of customers and staff" and added it had carried out a review of safety of e-bikes on the network.

TfL drew on its own analysis which it said suggested bikes adapted using electronic conversion kits posed a greater fire risk than purpose-built e-bikes, although it pointed it could be hard to differentiate between modified and unmodified e-bikes.

It said it was instigating the ban "until improved product safety measures are in place for converted cycles, batteries and chargers".
It comes after a small number of e-bike fires on the transport network, including one which exploded and caught fire on a Tube station platform in north-west London in February.

This is something the TUs have been calling on for a while, will be interesting to see if any of the mainline Tocs follow suit.

 

[LowLevel]

Good, it will affect a tiny amount of trade and I resent being forced to share my workspaces with the state of some of these devices. Many of them are also huge and heavy.

I hope the rest of the network follows suit, it's only a matter of time before one of these incidents kills someone rather than just wrecking trains or stations.

 

[quartile]

It's a real pity that the government legislation has not kept up with a raft new of e-mobility.

There is a world of difference from legal ebikes made to British standards and illegally modified Deliveroo/ Just eat emotorbikes.

That's probably why Brompton ebikes are still allowed. - though whether the Deliveroo types will now try to find a folding bike that gets round the rules

 

[Doctor Pepper]

An abelist move. TfL can expect to find themselves in court

Good, it will affect a tiny amount of trade and I resent being forced to share my workspaces with the state of some of these devices. Many of them are also huge and heavy.

I hope the rest of the network follows suit, it's only a matter of time before one of these incidents kills someone rather than just wrecking trains or stations.

An e-bike is no bigger than any other form of bicycle.

Oh and how is this going to be enforced exactly? It can't be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An abelist move. TfL can expect to find themselves in court

Would not a practical solution be to issue permits which would require evidence (e.g. a purchase receipt) of the cycle being a CE/UKCA approved "proper" one? I rarely take mine on the train but wouldn't overly like this to be banned just because some idiots like riding illegal and dangerous conversions.

Some transport operators (T&W Metro?) have permit schemes for mobility scooters, which these are often (as you say) used for.

 

[ChrisC]

An e-bike is no bigger than any other form of bicycle.

Oh and how is this going to be enforced exactly? It can't be.

I agree that most normal legal e-bikes are no bigger than any other form of bicycle. But that is not the case with many of the illegal ones ridden by some of the delivery rider types. Many of them have huge wheels and tyres and also the very large illegal modified batteries.

How it will be enforced on the tube or railways I have no idea. It certainly isn’t enforced by the police around our towns and cities. Locally to me large numbers of these delivery riders gather in Nottingham near the Victoria Shopping Centre, where there are a number of fast food outlets. Many are illegal and can be ridden at speed without pedalling and don’t get me started on why the riders need to wear masks and thick hooded puffer jackets even during hot summer weather. They are there every day chatting in groups in full view of everyone, so why don’t the police arrive and confiscate all the illegal e-bikes?

Incidentally, I do have a legal folding e-bike.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Incidentally, I do have a legal folding e-bike.

It's odd that they will still allow folders, as many of these illegal bikes are also folders.

 

[ChrisC]

It's odd that they will still allow folders, as many of these illegal bikes are also folders.

I agree, but mine is perfectly legal and was very expensive from a reputable cycle shop and I have it serviced every year. I’ve never taken mine on public transport. I only use it on very quiet country lanes and cycle trails where there’s little or no traffic. It fits nicely in the back of my car.

 

[RUK]

Greater Anglia have banned e-bikes, including folding e-bikes, and e-scooters, for fire safety reasons, for a while now - I think TfL are a bit slower to this than some other main-line TOCs have been.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree, but mine is perfectly legal and was very expensive from a reputable cycle shop and I have it serviced every year. I’ve never taken mine on public transport. I only use it on very quiet country lanes and cycle trails where there’s little or no traffic. It fits nicely in the back of my car.

My non-folder is perfectly legal too (from Decathlon, whose bikes, electric and otherwise, are superb value and as good as ones at twice the price) - I don't often take it on the train (more likely to use it for local journeys) but will really resent when (and I think it is when) those buying illegal, dangerous devices and the Police failing to properly enforce this mean I can't take mine on the train on the occasions I want to, e.g. if I've got a flat tyre or it's tipping down.

Greater Anglia have banned e-bikes, including folding e-bikes, and e-scooters, for fire safety reasons, for a while now - I think TfL are a bit slower to this than some other main-line TOCs.

No mainline TOC presently bans e-bikes. All presently ban e-scooters and similar (in part because properly designed, approved, road-legal ones do not exist aside from hire scooters which aren't meant to be taken on trains). In some cases the posters are a bit confusing, though.

If TfL have done it I'd be surprised if they now don't, though - the Unions will insist upon it.

 

[Tube driver]

An abelist move. TfL can expect to find themselves in court


An e-bike is no bigger than any other form of bicycle.

Oh and how is this going to be enforced exactly? It can't be.

The same way normal bikes are banned from deep level tube by station staff being vigilant, by enforcement by TfL‘s own enforcement teams (whatever they’re called this week) and by drivers refusing to move trains until they alight. Message will soon get across and I imagine staff will be telling people from today and giving them a copy of the Evening Standard with the story to their regular ebike passengers to forewarn them.

its a pity that owners of proper, well made and certified bikes will be affected but the huge rise of these shonky, assembled in a shed by well meaning but ultimately unqualified dudes using the cheapest possible parts from dubious sources and then working the battery and motors to their extremes has lead to this decision.

it’s obvious who these new bylaws are aimed at which is the fast food delivery guys and maybe now their respective ‘employers‘ like JustEat and so on might start asking for minimum standards or even supplying (heaven forbid it eats into their profits) a decent, well made and SAFE bike for their guys to use and then the new restrictions can be modified yet again to allow them access to the tube, LO, etc. I know the ‘gig’ economy doesn’t work like that but sometimes an issue has to be forced for changes to happen.

Good move that long overdue.

 

[RUK]

I was pretty certain that I saw a poster put in a prominent frame stood just in front of the ticket barriers at Norwich station a few weeks ago saying that they were banned - I took notice of this because I found it notable - and Greater Anglia’s web-site confirms this:

Cycling

Taking your bike to the station, on the train, and on rail replacement busesAt the station We have over 10,000 cycle spaces at our stations.

www.greateranglia.co.uk

No mainline TOC presently bans e-bikes. All presently ban e-scooters and similar (in part because properly designed, approved, road-legal ones do not exist aside from hire scooters which aren't meant to be taken on trains). In some cases the posters are a bit confusing, though.

On the train​

…
For fire safety reasons, e-scooters and e-bikes are not allowed on our trains.

 

[hexagon789]

My non-folder is perfectly legal too (from Decathlon, whose bikes, electric and otherwise, are superb value and as good as ones at twice the price) - I don't often take it on the train (more likely to use it for local journeys) but will really resent when (and I think it is when) those buying illegal, dangerous devices and the Police failing to properly enforce this mean I can't take mine on the train on the occasions I want to, e.g. if I've got a flat tyre or it's tipping down.



No mainline TOC presently bans e-bikes. All presently ban e-scooters and similar (in part because properly designed, approved, road-legal ones do not exist aside from hire scooters which aren't meant to be taken on trains). In some cases the posters are a bit confusing, though.

If TfL have done it I'd be surprised if they now don't, though - the Unions will insist upon it.

Greater Anglia's cycle policy:

Our cycle zones are marked green on the outside of the train, but there are limited spaces. For fire safety reasons, e-scooters and e-bikes are not allowed on our trains.

Cycling

Taking your bike to the station, on the train, and on rail replacement busesAt the station We have over 10,000 cycle spaces at our stations.

www.greateranglia.co.uk

 

[OneTrackMinded]

An abelist move.

They haven’t banned mobility scooters. Don’t understand why anyone with a disability would “need” specifically an e-bike. If you struggle with mobility for example, I’d say you’d have more or a risk falling off..?? Loads of those lime bikes around if you desperately need it for wherever reason, just be careful not to trip over them when people leave them right across a pavement….. oh and try not to get knocked over by one passing at 15mph…

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Would not a practical solution be to issue permits which would require evidence (e.g. a purchase receipt) of the cycle being a CE/UKCA approved "proper" one?

I suspect the people who use illegal bikes would quickly find ways round this with either faked permits or they will get a genuine permit with a compliant bike and then just use it with an illegal bike?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Greater Anglia's cycle policy:

Cycling

Taking your bike to the station, on the train, and on rail replacement busesAt the station We have over 10,000 cycle spaces at our stations.

www.greateranglia.co.uk

That is definitely new and the first I have heard of such a policy. Unfortunately GA block the Wayback Machine so I can't see when they changed it.

Interestingly the same does not apply to West Midlands Trains which is operated by the same owning organisation.

1. Electrical assisted pedal cycles (EPAC, ebike or Pedelec) are welcome on our trains if they meet the legal public transportation requirement. This means:
   1. The power mustn’t exceed 250 watts.
   2. A licence isn’t required to operate it.
   3. The bike is the same size as a non-electric bike.
   4. We also require that your battery is disconnected/isolated before entering the station and onboard our trains. For safety reasons, you must never attempt to charge your e-bike or battery via any of our onboard power supplies.

...is WMT's policy (though that "legal public transportation" bit is rubbish) - though number 4 is hard to do on quite a lot of bikes. https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/travel-information/onboard-facilities/cycle-spaces

I suspect the people who use illegal bikes would quickly find ways round this with either faked permits or they will get a genuine permit with a compliant bike and then just use it with an illegal bike?

Faked permits perhaps, though a picture of the bike on the permit would avoid the latter issue.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Faked permits perhaps, though a picture of the bike on the permit would avoid the latter issue.

I'm not sure a picture would work as there must be hundreds of illegal bikes that look the same as legal bikes?

This is something that would need a lot of thought to come up with a scheme that works but which also won't take ages verifying the bike at the barriers or on board.

 

[Doctor Pepper]

The same way normal bikes are banned from deep level tube by station staff being vigilant, by enforcement by TfL‘s own enforcement teams (whatever they’re called this week) and by drivers refusing to move trains until they alight. Message will soon get across and I imagine staff will be telling people from today and giving them a copy of the Evening Standard with the story to their regular ebike passengers to forewarn them.

its a pity that owners of proper, well made and certified bikes will be affected but the huge rise of these shonky, assembled in a shed by well meaning but ultimately unqualified dudes using the cheapest possible parts from dubious sources and then working the battery and motors to their extremes has lead to this decision.

it’s obvious who these new bylaws are aimed at which is the fast food delivery guys and maybe now their respective ‘employers‘ like JustEat and so on might start asking for minimum standards or even supplying (heaven forbid it eats into their profits) a decent, well made and SAFE bike for their guys to use and then the new restrictions can be modified yet again to allow them access to the tube, LO, etc. I know the ‘gig’ economy doesn’t work like that but sometimes an issue has to be forced for changes to happen.

Good move that long overdue.

Really. Explain how a TfL staff member, who knows nothing about bikes, is going to tell the difference between an e-bike and a regular bike? This is discrimination against people not capable of riding a regular bike, which is illegal.

This is irrational hysteria over a non-problem, whipped up by the likes of the Daily Heil, and is causing enormous damage to the industry

ACT concerned at growing misconception that all e-bikes are unsafe​

The Association of Cycle Traders (ACT) is urging fair and accurate reporting of e-bike-related news. It warns in particular increasing coverage of fires linked to unsafe products is giving rise to broader fears about the safety of all e-bikes and batteries.
ACT director Jonathan Harrison said in most cases incidents are caused by uncertified, aftermarket batteries imported to the UK that are purchased via online auction sites or unapproved retailers.
He said this misconception of all e-bikes being unsafe jeopardised the growth of e-bikes "as a highly beneficial, sustainable transport solution."
He added: “In my opinion, the main cause of e-bike and battery fears is the increasing coverage - both in the media and online social channels - of fires linked to unsafe e-bike batteries and chargers, which has the overall effect of damaging the reputation of all e-bikes."
Harrison also said the ACT has observed a “concerning trend” in some media outlets where the term 'e-bike' is being used “inappropriately or sensationally” - particularly in what the organisation termed, 'accident reports'.

​

"This not only misrepresents the nature of e-bikes but also risks damaging public perception of what is an increasingly popular and sustainable mode of transport."
A spokesperson explained that it was one such incidence that had given rise to the call for fair reporting: "The campaign was sparked by a recent incident where a member of the ACT successfully challenged a BBC article that initially implied a connection between an accident and the use of an e-bike.
"Following a complaint, the publication amended both the headline and content to more accurately reflect the incident as one of dangerous cycling, rather than an issue specific to e-bikes."

Misleading reporting is damaging public perception of e-bikes says trade body

The Association of Cycle Traders (ACT) is urging fair and accurate reporting of e-bike-related news. It warns in particular increasing coverage of fires linked to unsafe products is giving rise to broader fears about the safety of all e-bikes and batteries. ACT director Jonathan Harrison said in...

ebiketips.road.cc

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure a picture would work as there must be hundreds of illegal bikes that look the same as legal bikes?

99% of the illegal ones are visibly so from the naked eye. That's why I have an issue about the way the Police appear not to be enforcing the law with regard to their use on the road. I can pick one out from 100 metres away.

 

[ChrisC]

My non-folder is perfectly legal too (from Decathlon, whose bikes, electric and otherwise, are superb value and as good as ones at twice the price) - I don't often take it on the train (more likely to use it for local journeys) but will really resent when (and I think it is when) those buying illegal, dangerous devices and the Police failing to properly enforce this mean I can't take mine on the train on the occasions I want to, e.g. if I've got a flat tyre or it's tipping down.

It really annoys me when all e-bike riders are given a bad name because of the irresponsible people who dangerously ride these illegal bikes. For me, as I get older an e-bike has enabled me to cycle even in hilly locations.

 

[Doctor Pepper]

They haven’t banned mobility scooters. Don’t understand why anyone with a disability would “need” specifically an e-bike. If you struggle with mobility for example, I’d say you’d have more or a risk falling off..?? Loads of those lime bikes around if you desperately need it for wherever reason, just be careful not to trip over them when people leave them right across a pavement….. oh and try not to get knocked over by one passing at 15mph…

Because an e-bike enables people to cycle who might not otherwise be able to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really. Explain how a TfL staff member, who knows nothing about bikes, is going to tell the difference between an e-bike and a regular bike?

By looking at it. It's usually pretty obvious. There are a few e-bikes that hide the battery in a normal sized frame like Vanmoofs, but there are very few like this - those ones might get through. Most other e-bikes are obviously so as they have an obvious battery and screen.

This is discrimination against people not capable of riding a regular bike, which is illegal.

This is quite possible, but a case could only be brought by/on behalf of someone in that position, not someone choosing to ride one, e.g. as part of a delivery job.

This is irrational hysteria over a non-problem, whipped up by the likes of the Daily Heil, and is causing enormous damage to the industry

In London it's very much not a non-problem - there are vastly more illegal ones than legal ones, and they've caused a number of fires. The police need to get on top of the issue, but policing in the UK at present barely exists at all so I can see why TfL need to take it into their own hands.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Because an e-bike enables people to cycle who might not otherwise be able to.

I understand that but my point is it isn’t something which is “needed” for a disabled person to get around, rather a convenience, in the same way it is for an able-bodied person, although they have an alternative to experience this convenience through normal cycling. Therefore I don’t think it’s as of an issue as for example banning mobility scooters where some people rely on that as a necessity to get around. Obviously we should strive for equal experiences/opportunities but this isn’t making it so it’s impossible to get from place to place. Necessities come first, then it can be built on top of.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I understand that but my point is it isn’t something which is “needed” for a disabled person to get around, rather a convenience, in the same way it is for an able-bodied person, although they have an alternative to experience this convenience through normal cycling. Therefore I don’t think it’s as of an issue as for example banning mobility scooters where some people rely on that as a necessity to get around. Obviously we should strive for equal experiences/opportunities but this isn’t making it so it’s impossible to get from place to place. Necessities come first, then it can be built on top of.

The danger of a legal challenge is that the result is ALL bicycles being banned, being the only way to deal with the safety issue in a compliant manner. I know many on here would like this, but it's somewhat against the environmental benefits of cycle carriage particularly on rural routes (rather than TfL).

 

[Doctor Pepper]

I understand that but my point is it isn’t something which is “needed” for a disabled person to get around, rather a convenience, in the same way it is for an able-bodied person, although they have an alternative to experience this convenience through normal cycling. Therefore I don’t think it’s as of an issue as for example banning mobility scooters where some people rely on that as a necessity to get around. Obviously we should strive for equal experiences/opportunities but this isn’t making it so it’s impossible to get from place to place. Necessities come first, then it can be built on top of.

Is discrimination in favour of the fit, which is illegal.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is discrimination in favour of the fit, which is illegal.

Fitness isn't a protected characteristic.

However, being unable to cycle because of e.g. COPD/asthma or a leg disability might be.

 

[Doctor Pepper]

The danger of a legal challenge is that the result is ALL bicycles being banned, being the only way to deal with the safety issue in a compliant manner.

There is no safety issue! It's made up! Let's get one thing straight here, exactly the same kind of battery are in every phone and every laptop, so why aren't they banned? Because there's not been the same hype about those is the answer.

Fitness isn't a protected characteristic.

However, being unable to cycle because of e.g. COPD/asthma or a leg disability might be.

Of course it is by definition.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is no safety issue! It's made up! Let's get one thing straight here, exactly the same kind of battery are in every phone and every laptop, so why aren't they banned? Because there's not been the same hype about those is the answer.

The battery in a phone is MUCH smaller than an e-bike battery, and thus has much less of a potential to cause a serious fire. Also, phones have less of an issue with disreputable batteries given that these days they're not generally user-replaceable, same with laptops.

They are the same TYPE of battery, but the battery and associated wiring generally doesn't have the same quality issue as illegal e-bikes. Cheapo large power banks can be an issue too and look like they may well end up banned from planes, but it's not practical to ban them from trains as bag searches are not conducted. (It is practical to check the CE markings of power banks at airport security, and indeed the Chinese have done this for years).

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Is discrimination in favour of the fit, which is illegal.

The point is: If you can walk, then you have another means of movement and therefore it’s not a necessity. If you cannot walk, you could use another means like a mobility scooter or similar.

Yes, as aforementioned, we should try to provide people with equal access but in the case of this while you might be able to argue that disabled people are being restricted from riding a bike because of this, it would appear quite weak against the fact that a. There are other options for the disabled person and b. That combined with the reason for the ban

 

[Doctor Pepper]

The battery in a phone is MUCH smaller than an e-bike battery, and thus has much less of a potential to cause a serious fire. Also, phones have less of an issue with disreputable batteries given that these days they're not generally user-replaceable, same with laptops.

Really.

Samsung suspends sales of Galaxy Note 7 after smartphones catch fire​

Korean manufacturer confirms 35 cases of newly launched devices exploding while being charged and offers exchanges but stops short of full recall

Samsung has suspended sales of its brand-new top-end Galaxy Note 7 smartphone and is offering replacements for anyone who has already purchased one, but has stopped short of a full recall.

Koh Dong-jin, president of Samsung’s mobile business, said on Friday, two weeks after the Note 7’s launch: “We have received several reports of battery explosions on the Note 7... and it has been confirmed that it was a battery cell problem. There was a tiny problem in the manufacturing process so it was very difficult to find out.”

Samsung suspends sales of Galaxy Note 7 after smartphones catch fire

Korean manufacturer confirms 35 cases of newly launched devices exploding while being charged and offers exchanges but stops short of full recall

www.theguardian.com