E-scooter & hoverboard ban on GTR

[Harpers Tate]

No. See above.

Right. But my EBike is fully CE certified, so I presume the batteries are similarly quality controlled.

 

[43066]

I've just heard an announcement by an OBS on a GatEx service stating that e-scooters, hoverboards and e-bikes will be banned on all GTR services from 1 June this year.

Can't see anything online about this yet, but including e-bikes seems a little overkill.

https://twitter.com/SouthernRailUK/status/1643664156011134996

Nevermind! Official confirmation.

GTR specifically state in the replies that e-bikes are not included in the ban, so presumably the OBS misspoke, or you misheard.

They’re aiming at the dodgy imported e scooters with no quality controls.

Banned on Southeastern from June.

Scooters rather than e bikes, I think? No TOC has banned e bikes as yet, AFAIK.

 

[talldave]

Though only mentions scooters, same as almost every TOC.

I can see them being allowed again when there are approved CE marked designs.

Or UKCA as it will be in the future.

I get what they're trying to do, but their rules look stupid when ebikes could contain the same batteries as escooters. It feels like it's more about the riders than the item?

As batteries get more integrated into ebikes it could also get harder to differentiate a bike from an ebike.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

so presumably the OBS misspoke, or you misheard.

I was on that service. The OBS did, after leaving Haywards Heath, mention hoverboards, escooters and e-cycles. Upon leaving Preston Park, the OBS made a second announcement and repeated mentioning hoverboards, escooters and e-unicycles, but not e-bikes/e-cycles as originally stated.

 

[43066]

I was on that service. The OBS did, after leaving Haywards Heath, mention hoverboards, escooters and e-cycles. Upon leaving Preston Park, the OBS made a second announcement and repeated mentioning hoverboards, escooters and e-unicycles, but not e-bikes/e-cycles as originally stated.

Not ideal! Luckily Twitter have clarified.

It might be worth amending the thread title if someone is able to do it.

 

[Malaxa]

No TOC has banned e bikes as yet, AFAIK.

E-bikes were briefly banned on the Caledonian Sleeper but the rule was quickly rescinded in early 2022.
Their current guidance for e-bike carriage [and for other cycles] is comprehensive and clear.

Travelling with Bikes

Travelling with bikes | Caledonian Sleeper. Information on making a booking for you and your bike on Caledonian Sleeper services.

www.sleeper.scot

 

[DNCharingX]

I somehow get the feeling that this is hot air in the same way that many other company 'policies' (bikes, alcohol, heavy items) are.

If they want results and enforcement, these need to be made into laws. Otherwise, it feels like the company asking "pretty please don't bring your e-scooter on board".

 

[E27007]

If the issue is with risk posed by batteries - should this extend to the carrying of cordless power tools?

Perhaps they should be banned, have there been instances of the batteries failing, there are many regulations, my local Tfl station has a coffee shop, all the tables and chaire had to be to the TFL specifications for fire hazards

 

[najaB]

Why would anyone want to rise an e-bike given they could be so dangerous?

They are no more dangerous to ride than any other type of bike.

I would not wish to be on a bike that catches fire.

The risk of a properly manufactured e-bike battery catching fire is extremely low. And, even if it does, the danger isn't a fire while it is in use - since you can easily dismount - but rather from a fire that starts when the bike isn't in use.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

It would be interesting to see comparative statistics for self-combustion incidents on the railway involving

1. e-scooters
2. Class 180s

 

[Surreytraveller]

Right. But my EBike is fully CE certified, so I presume the batteries are similarly quality controlled.

Yes

 

[Aviator88]

Shame... E-bike -> train -> E-bike is about as clean a journey as you can get without exercise!

 

[Surreytraveller]

Shame... E-bike -> train -> E-bike is about as clean a journey as you can get without exercise!

E-bikes aren't banned

 

[Aviator88]

E-bikes aren't banned

No, but it seems like the net may be closing.

Hopefully company policies will mature into distinguishing between batteries carrying the European safety stamp and those without. To include E-scooters, et al.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, but it seems like the net may be closing.

Hopefully company policies will mature into distinguishing between batteries carrying the European safety stamp and those without. To include E-scooters, et al.

What we probably need is legislation to ban the commercial import and sale of any lithium battery (in any context) that is not either CE or UKCA approved.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

No, but it seems like the net may be closing.

TfL banned e-scooters at the start of December 2021 and haven't even hinted at any problems with e-bikes. I fail to see why you're so pessimistic.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Having removed my battery and stowed it in my backpack I confidently enter the station. If I were to be challenged I'd explain that I've left the battery at home to charge. I really don't think they're going to insist on searching my bag!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I really don't think they're going to insist on searching my bag!

Are they allowed to search your bag?

 

[Aviator88]

What we probably need is legislation to ban the commercial import and sale of any lithium battery (in any context) that is not either CE or UKCA approved.

I'd get behind that. Cheaping out on batteries isn't worth the risk and curries no favours with the regulators when it's decision time.

TfL banned e-scooters at the start of December 2021 and haven't even hinted at any problems with e-bikes. I fail to see why you're so pessimistic.

Current policies target battery powered modes of transport, of which E-bikes are one. Despite them not being specifically mentioned, it's safe to say they fall well on the radar and I think it's important to develop a dialogue on it before it gets to the point that they may be banned. CS were the first to drop a tentacle into the water, no doubt others will follow.

 

[MrJeeves]

GTR specifically state in the replies that e-bikes are not included in the ban, so presumably the OBS misspoke, or you misheard.

The OBS misspoke, I believe, considering @ThameslinkUser appeared to be on the same service as me.

He did take a rather long pause before saying e-bikes so I think he made a mistake.

I believe I was on the same GX as you and he didn't mention e-cycles in a later announcement at Preston Park !

 

[43066]

Having removed my battery and stowed it in my backpack I confidently enter the station. If I were to be challenged I'd explain that I've left the battery at home to charge. I really don't think they're going to insist on searching my bag!

Who are you trying to fool by doing this, and why?

E-bikes (as you’ve said you have) aren’t banned!

 

[najaB]

What we probably need is legislation to ban the commercial import and sale of any lithium battery (in any context) that is not either CE or UKCA approved.

Along with more publicity as to why this is so important. My guess is that the general public has some awareness that there was a problem with some phones catching fire, but most people don't realise just how dangerous lithium battery fires can be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Current policies target battery powered modes of transport, of which E-bikes are one. Despite them not being specifically mentioned, it's safe to say they fall well on the radar and I think it's important to develop a dialogue on it before it gets to the point that they may be banned. CS were the first to drop a tentacle into the water, no doubt others will follow.

CS are a bit of a special case. Fire regs are tighter on sleeper trains because people are asleep so may not notice a fire developing.

However, they did climb down from a ban, they are now permitted but only if the battery has an isolator switch (which does rule out some integrated designs like VanMoofs).

Along with more publicity as to why this is so important. My guess is that the general public has some awareness that there was a problem with some phones catching fire, but most people don't realise just how dangerous lithium battery fires can be.

I think the thing is that a phone is quite small and can be chucked out of the window or (in the case of aircraft) put in a fireproof box to burn out. An e-bike battery is much bigger.

Then you have EVs. I'd not like an integrated garage (well, I'd be happy to have one as a junk store, but not to park a car in it) because of the fire risk, though I might do if I'd fitted sprinklers. I'd definitely not park an EV in one under any circumstances, and might be nervous of a first floor flat with underground parking where there might be EVs. (These should be fire-safe, but Grenfell has highlighted lots of deficiencies in such things).

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Current policies target battery powered modes of transport, of which E-bikes are one.

E-bikes are explicitly fine for travel.

 

[najaB]

Then you have EVs. I'd not like an integrated garage (well, I'd be happy to have one as a junk store, but not to park a car in it) because of the fire risk, though I might do if I'd fitted sprinklers. I'd definitely not park an EV in one under any circumstances, and might be nervous of a first floor flat with underground parking where there might be EVs.

Instances of undamaged, parked EVs catching fire are vanishingly rare though. Not to say that it can't happen, but it's not something I would lose sleep over.

 

[Aviator88]

CS are a bit of a special case. Fire regs are tighter on sleeper trains because people are asleep so may not notice a fire developing.

However, they did climb down from a ban, they are now permitted but only if the battery has an isolator switch (which does rule out some integrated designs like VanMoofs).



I think the thing is that a phone is quite small and can be chucked out of the window or (in the case of aircraft) put in a fireproof box to burn out. An e-bike battery is much bigger.

Then you have EVs. I'd not like an integrated garage (well, I'd be happy to have one as a junk store, but not to park a car in it) because of the fire risk, though I might do if I'd fitted sprinklers. I'd definitely not park an EV in one under any circumstances, and might be nervous of a first floor flat with underground parking where there might be EVs.

Fair shout. I think E-bikes are treading that line between being tolerated for reasons of practicality, and presenting a risk. After all, the reasons stated for banning E-scooters aren't because they're impacting the aisle or being ridden dangerously in stations (valid points that they may be!), but due to the fire hazard associated with LiPO batteries.

E-bikes are explicitly fine for travel.

Currently, but more at risk of being restricted than a pushchair (for example) for the reasons outlined above.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Currently, but more at risk of being restricted than a pushchair (for example) for the reasons outlined above.

This is a complete hypothetical. I would suggest starting a thread on "will e-bikes be banned" in such forum.

 

[Aviator88]

This is a complete hypothetical. I would suggest starting a thread on "will e-bikes be banned" in such forum.

Duly noted

 

[CaptainHaddock]

What strange contradictory logic some TOCs employ.

"You can't take an e-scooter on our trains because there's a risk of its battery catching fire."
"All our trains have USB sockets so you can charge your phone or laptop battery while you travel"

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I haven't seen any phones or laptops causing something like this.

FOI request detail

FOI request detail

tfl.gov.uk

The causes of both fires, which involved an e-scooter and an e-unicycle respectively, have been attributed to defective lithium-ion batteries. In both incidents the batteries ruptured without warning and were not on charge.

The CCTV footage attached relates to the second incident which occurred on 1 November 2021 on a District line train between Putney Bridge and Parsons Green where an e-scooter spontaneously ignited. Toxic fumes engulfed the saloon cars and the flames damaged the train flooring and e-scooter. The on-train CCTV shows customers quickly moving away from the fire, and the carriage filling with smoke in under a minute.