Early Departure Times?

[O L Leigh]

There is no way that a GN train could gain 2 minutes between Cambridge and Foxton. It just isn't feasible. If anything, your experience casts doubt not on the correct running of trains but on the accuracy of the information used to update the "staff website" you were accessing.

O L Leigh

 

[thefab444]

Indeed, it's not 100% accurate by any means.

A lot of stations the data is "made up" for, if it isn't a reporting point (so no TRUST).

 

[StewieG]

I have access to the staff website and tonight, coming back from York on East Coast, I was tracking my connecting train at Stevenage in case we arrived late and missed the train and had to wait another hour.

The data actually changed from start to end - and so I am beginning to believe that it IS possible that the supposed hard record could have been different to reality.

We were connecting with a train leaving Cambridge at 2155, first stop Foxton, then Shepreth and so on. It arrived at Foxton 2 minutes early, then showed as having arrived at Shepreth the same time it was supposed to leave Foxton (so, still 2 minutes early). This suggests it left early from Foxton - or else the stations must be VERRRY close together.

However, upon subsequent refreshes nearer its position in relation to Stevenage, it had mysteriously changed to 1 minute late at Foxton and On Time pretty much the rest of the journey, (subsequently getting to King's Cross 9 minutes early thanks to recovery time).

How does a train go from being 2 minutes early to showing as 1 minute late? I saw this with my own eyes, but sadly I don't have a screen capture because I had no reason to think the data would change!

Perhaps the OP was still right about the early departure after all.

I didn't make the story up for discussion. I'm not a liar... If it didn't happen - why would I make the thread ? =/

Not saying your calling me a liar... But ya know

 

[brompton rail]

Many trains are shown as "arrived" on platform displays when in fact they have entered the section but have not arrived at the platform or open the doors.

 

[jon0844]

I didn't make the story up for discussion. I'm not a liar... If it didn't happen - why would I make the thread ? =/

Not saying your calling me a liar... But ya know

Erm, didn't you read my message as if I was actually supporting your argument?!

 

[Greenback]

I've never really trusted station clocks and screens. Too many times have I seen the 1805 arrivail and 1809 departure shown as 'on time' when the clock/screen shows 1811! They can't both be right!

 

[142094]

Going back to the OP, I was on a Northern Darlington - Saltburn service which left Thornaby 2 and a half minutes early, according to the the CIS (plus the time being the same on the screen, my watch and mobile).

 

[asylumxl]

Waiting at Elephant and Castle, the screen says 1430 to Kentish Town is on time at 1437.

Either we have a quantum conundrum, or the system is very unreliable .

 

[djw1981]

Well, regardless of whatever - I feel Yorkie's idea is the most entertaining. If it was logged as saying it left at xx:50, then it must have done... BUt the clocks, hand on heart, on the Departure Board, said xx:48

But they are no longer apparently all synchronised. So they mean nothing.

 

[ungreat]

That website,as another poster says,is updated by TRUST..where there is none,approximate times are used..I know because I timed myself and recorded it,and when home compared the timings to the website..very inaccurate,but not all the time.

And yes jonmorris..Foxton and Shepreth ARE very close together!

 

[StewieG]

Erm, didn't you read my message as if I was actually supporting your argument?!

Nooo I did see it as you supporting me - I was just saying for added supprot for the other posters - why would I have made it up anyways etc.

Wasn't nothing against you at all!

 

[O L Leigh]

But they are no longer apparently all synchronised. So they mean nothing.

Some railway clocks are synchronised.

I know that the "mechanical" digital clocks on the platforms show precisely the same time as my railway watch, so they must both be synchronised using the same time signal. However, this can be up to 30 seconds out compared to the time shown on the information screens with the departure board clocks being ahead. I've not yet checked my watch against the "pips" broadcast on the Beeb though.

O L Leigh

 

[ungreat]

The clock on the up side at St Neots is two mins fast constantly,yet the down platform is accurate!

 

[jon0844]

Having the right time is a pretty basic thing isn't it? It should be a requirement that all clocks are 100% accurate (give or take the odd second). It's hardly difficult, or even expensive.

I had an argument with a bus driver last week that left five minutes early (making me wait half an hour for him to come back to do the next 'run'), with him insisting the time on his ticket machine was right. I pointed out that it didn't match my watch, the railway clock, the clock on the TV screens at the bus stop showing departures or indeed my phone set over the Internet (which is pretty accurate and almost identical to the train station clocks). His clock was two minutes out and the policy for the bus operator (not a big one) was that a bus could leave up to three minutes early if there was nobody waiting. He never did show what his watch was saying!

Now, of course, at a train station - people don't always wait at the bus stop. They arrive on a train, come out and step on a connecting bus. The fact that he didn't wait for the people to get off the train (he had left as the train pulled in) shows that the bus company obviously don't feel the need to have any sort of integrated transport. The bus runs every 30 minutes; so do the trains from London. There's 7 minutes to make a connection, but the train can be a minute or two late - meaning you really have around 1-2 minutes to safely get the bus if the bus operates as the driver seemed to think.

Annoyingly, the bus information screens aren't live - so it would show the bus running to time even if it wasn't running at all. Next year, the buses should get GPS to allow proper tracking and timekeeping - and not before time!

I emailed the bus company and they apologised; saying the driver should use his own watch AND wait for people to get off the train. What's bad for me is that they also said they're going to interview the driver. I know they'll probably do nothing, but I now suspect he's going to have a right go at me when he next sees me - or refuse to take me.

 

[Oswyntail]

"Tis with our judgments as our watches: none go just alike, yet each believes his own."
— Alexander Pope

IIRC, the Network SouthEast platform clocks were originally synchronised to the Rugby atomic clock. Others round the country followed suit, but there was not complete coverage. I think this system runs via radio waves. In many applications synchronisation is via the internet, which can cause problems - there is a delay of a few seconds between what I hear via the radio and the same broadcast via the internet. But there is no excuse for a public service based on time to have variations of more than a few seconds.

 

[jon0844]

A few seconds is fine. A couple of minutes is stupid. When you run something to a timetable, it's possibly THE most important thing in the whole railway!

 

[Greenback]

Agreed. After all, that is why 'railway time' replaced local time in the 19th Century!

It's amazing that we can't seem to synchronise clocks these days. Why is something that appears to be so simple so difficult to do?

 

[90019]

Agreed. After all, that is why 'railway time' replaced local time in the 19th Century!

It's amazing that we can't seem to synchronise clocks these days. Why is something that appears to be so simple so difficult to do?

There's the right way, the wrong way, and then there's the railway.

 

[Helvellyn]

SWT clocks on the CIS at stations are sychronised, and plenty of staff have the watches that are kept accuarte by radio signal. Any station clocks on the CIS that are wrong should be reported so they can be reset.

And as a Guard if you leave early you can usually expect a "please explain" as it seems plenty of people track these things in TRUST, just as much as a one minute delay.

 

[SWTCommuter]

Going back to the OP, it's not entirely unheard of. The only time I've experienced it was earlier this year (Feb 2nd, I think) when we had heavy snowfall in southern England. I was quite surprised that day when the 0555 Southampton to Waterloo (0500 from Poole) turned up about ten minutes early. I got on expecting it to wait but the doors shut behind me and it pulled away immediately. IIRC, it ran ahead of time until the delays from the weather took effect and got to Woking roughly on time. By then, the snow was falling very heavily and it arrived at Waterloo about 15-20 mins late. Presumably the line controller's priority was to get it through to Waterloo asap while the line was still clear.

 

[jon0844]

Nice idea to get it in early (or on time) at the destination, but not if it was half empty and people were left behind on the platform in freezing snow.

Okay, getting to the platform with 20-30 seconds to spare is asking for trouble, but I rarely aim to get to my platform as much as 10 minutes early. I'd be furious if that happened.

Actually it did happen on FCC a couple of years ago when there was a revised timetable for trains going from Blackfriars, except the driver either hadn't been told or forgot, and that was about 10 minutes too. I did get an apology for that though. I obviously don't know what happened to the driver.

 

[Fgw+xc+swtconn]

Well, I suppose that teaches people to get to the station in good time!!! The driver probably had something good cooking for tea, or just needed a pee

 

[Helvellyn]

Going back to the OP, it's not entirely unheard of. The only time I've experienced it was earlier this year (Feb 2nd, I think) when we had heavy snowfall in southern England. I was quite surprised that day when the 0555 Southampton to Waterloo (0500 from Poole) turned up about ten minutes early. I got on expecting it to wait but the doors shut behind me and it pulled away immediately. IIRC, it ran ahead of time until the delays from the weather took effect and got to Woking roughly on time. By then, the snow was falling very heavily and it arrived at Waterloo about 15-20 mins late. Presumably the line controller's priority was to get it through to Waterloo asap while the line was still clear.

Was it definitely running as the 05:00 Poole to Waterloo? Seems strange that it could run 10 minutes early into Southampton if it did all scheduled stops. The reason I ask if it was the train you thought is because I know that with the heavy snow the Snow Plan was put into effect, and that means a different timetable to provide a fixed frequency service over core routes. Just can't remember if it was in effect from start of service on the day you mention!

 

[Old Timer]

Agreed. After all, that is why 'railway time' replaced local time in the 19th Century!

It's amazing that we can't seem to synchronise clocks these days. Why is something that appears to be so simple so difficult to do?

Railway clocks are synchronised, its the punters who need synchronising

 

[jon0844]

Not all of them though, which seems to be a step backwards. I can see different times on different platforms at some stations, and there was one station (Potters Bar) that ended up covering up a clock with duck tape because they couldn't adjust it for BST! (I guess the cover is off now!).

 

[Mojo]

If you stand on the concourse at BHM you'll see that the clock above the ticket barriers (part of the former Solari) is about half a minute out from the digital clock on the LED departure boards.

 

[Greenback]

Railway clocks are synchronised, its the punters who need synchronising

hatsthe case, why do so many stations have different times displayed on the main departure board, the platform clocks, and th platform monitors? Occasionally, different platforms have different times on the clocks!

 

[attics26]

The two digital clocks on platform 4 at Darlington always differ by 10-15 secs with the one near platform 3 agreeing with my "two franchises ago issued self correcting" watch but guards usually look at the one in the middle of the platform and wonder why I havent started the despatch procedure.

 

[O L Leigh]

I have to confess to being run early a couple of weeks back when there had been a fatality at Cheshunt.

I was taking a Hertford service that was terminated short in the bay platform at Cheshunt but they needed me to clear out ASAP to release the platform for the slow train coming off the Seven Sisters line. I'd already checked with control and was instructed to wait time at Waltham Cross, so off I went. Problem was as I arrived at Waltham Cross I saw the barriers going down at Enfield Lock. As I was going to be sitting there for about 10 minutes I called up the box and relayed my instructions only to be told that the line had just then been re-opened, that there was a badly delayed Cambridge right up my trumpet and would I mind awfully getting a shift on. So I told control what was occurring, closed up early and then screamed off up the Lea Valley as fast as possible.

Mind you, that was because of EXCEPTIONAL circumstances.

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

Yes, that doesn't count!!