East Coast to Glasgow Central

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leomartin125

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Hi,

I found out a year or two ago that East Coast (as it was then) operated a service, once a day, between Kings X and Glasgow Central, and in the other direction too. Does this service still operate or not any more under VTEC?

Thanks,
Leo
 
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me123

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Yes, yes it does.

At 06:50, 1E06 leaves Glasgow Central bound for King's Cross.
At 15:30, 1S23 leaves King's Cross bound for Glasgow Central.

Some time ago, East Coast (GNER, latterly NXEC) used to operate one train every two hours to Glasgow via the ECML, with VXC operating just two trains a day between Glasgow and Edinburgh (and then onto the South West).

Things changed in 2011 with the introduction of the "Eureka!" timetable. East Coast curtailed all bar one service to Glasgow, with CrossCountry picking up the 1tp2h onto Glasgow.

I have to say that, whilst I preferred having the EC franchise in Glasgow compared to XC, in terms of efficient use of the railway the current set up does make more sense. The 1tp2h to Glasgow was generally not heavily used once you got beyond Edinburgh, and the Intercity 225s were like ghost trains. It makes sense to get more out of them on the ECML "proper", leaving Voyagers to do the job. Voyagers are actually quite well suited to the route in terms of passenger load. Furthermore, having a regular link between Glasgow and Leeds/Sheffield is a more sensible option than having two routes to London, one of which is much slower and less competitive than the other. Of course, for the intermediate ECML stations, you can still change en route.
 

kieron

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Furthermore, having a regular link between Glasgow and Leeds/Sheffield is a more sensible option than having two routes to London, one of which is much slower and less competitive than the other.
VTEC also run one train a day between Aberdeen and Leeds via Edinburgh, so their trains could go that way more often. Glasgow-Sheffield is a lot faster via the WCML, even without any direct trains, as going via Edinburgh requires a massive detour. Leeds-Glasgow isn't as far via Manchester, either, but the line speeds and lack of direct trains make it slower that way.

I suppose things will change a lot when VTEC (and TPE) get the new trains they've ordered.
 

cle

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Would Leeds to Glasgow via Preston be quickest? And Sheffield perhaps via Warrington and a quick walk? Both trying to grab the London trains of course.
 

me123

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VTEC also run one train a day between Aberdeen and Leeds via Edinburgh, so their trains could go that way more often.

No, they really couldn't/shouldn't. VTEC's one return service between Leeds and Aberdeen operates for logistical reasons, not specifically to provide a service on the Leeds to York corridor. VTEC's main business is travel to and from London on the ECML proper. Diverting trains via Leeds would significantly slow things down.

The Edinburgh-Newcastle-Leeds corridor is perfectly well served by XC and TPE. They are the most sensible operators to do so.

Glasgow-Sheffield is a lot faster via the WCML, even without any direct trains, as going via Edinburgh requires a massive detour. Leeds-Glasgow isn't as far via Manchester, either, but the line speeds and lack of direct trains make it slower that way.

It's not a lot faster, it's not more than half an hour in many cases. It is indeed sometimes the fastest option to travel on the direct train (for example, the 06:01 departure from GLC). For many people, the benefits of a direct train could outweigh the relatively modest time savings afforded by the inconvenience of changing. Even beyond Sheffield there is still a benefit in the direct train - for people going to Derby, it's only 20 minutes longer on the direct train and avoids the hassle of three changes in some cases.

Of course, for Birmingham and beyond the benefits of the direct trains are vastly outweighed by the extra time required (up to two hours), but until then it's a relatively modest time penalty for a significantly more convenient journey, which would be useful for quite a few people (elderly people, those with luggage, those who are not familiar with traveling by train...).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would Leeds to Glasgow via Preston be quickest? And Sheffield perhaps via Warrington and a quick walk? Both trying to grab the London trains of course.

There's very little in it. The journey planners again suggest no more than 20 minutes difference, although for Leeds the direct train via the ECML is a faster journey, albeit covering more miles. The journey planners give me routes with changes at Manchester (±Preston) or Lancaster via the WCML. S&C may be the fastest option in some cases when the line reopens.

Travel via Warrington doesn't seem to appear for Glasgow to Sheffield on the VTEC journey planner unless you specifically ask - it routes you either via the ECML or via Manchester. That said, times are broadly competitive with the more direct routes (although may well be overtaken).
 

route101

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Was on VTEC Edinburgh to Glasgow this evening . Was actually fairly busy !
 

47271

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Was on VTEC Edinburgh to Glasgow this evening . Was actually fairly busy !
I think that's probably because it's the only through train on the route now and people have chosen it on that basis.

I don't need to do it that often, but if I'm travelling, say, York to Glasgow, I'll always try to organise my plans to select this train rather than subjecting myself to Cross Country or changing at Edinburgh.
 

robbeech

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It usually pulls in a short while before the sleeper leaves Glasgow. I had forgotten about the service and was sat in my berth the other night awaiting departure when i heard the ever familiar sound of the fans on the 91.

Rob
 

edwin_m

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This service was introduced with ECML electrification. At the time the Glasgow-London journey time was pretty similar on an IC225 via Edinburgh or on a class 87/90 push-pull via Preston. If my memory serves, Euston-Glasgow only ran about every two hours so a Kings Cross train was inserted in the gaps to give a roughly hourly train between London and Glasgow.

The advent of the Pendolino service and hourly Euston-Glasgow trains meant that London-Glasgow was always quicker via Preston, so the Glasgow passengers on the East Coast trains were basically to and from intermediate stations rather than London. Probably only Glasgow-Peterborough lost out when all but one in each direction was replaced by a Voyager.
 

Mag_seven

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This service was introduced with ECML electrification. At the time the Glasgow-London journey time was pretty similar on an IC225 via Edinburgh or on a class 87/90 push-pull via Preston. If my memory serves, Euston-Glasgow only ran about every two hours so a Kings Cross train was inserted in the gaps to give a roughly hourly train between London and Glasgow.

The advent of the Pendolino service and hourly Euston-Glasgow trains meant that London-Glasgow was always quicker via Preston, so the Glasgow passengers on the East Coast trains were basically to and from intermediate stations rather than London. Probably only Glasgow-Peterborough lost out when all but one in each direction was replaced by a Voyager.

I'm sure BR considered making the Kings Cross route the main route from Glasgow to London with the role of the WCML north of Preston severely reduced - I'm sure extensive singling was even mooted!
 

30907

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I'm sure BR considered making the Kings Cross route the main route from Glasgow to London with the role of the WCML north of Preston severely reduced - I'm sure extensive singling was even mooted!

And wasn't Newcastle-Edinburgh also threatened?
 

Flying Snail

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This service was introduced with ECML electrification. At the time the Glasgow-London journey time was pretty similar on an IC225 via Edinburgh or on a class 87/90 push-pull via Preston. If my memory serves, Euston-Glasgow only ran about every two hours so a Kings Cross train was inserted in the gaps to give a roughly hourly train between London and Glasgow.


Here's a slightly dodgy pic of the London-Scotland summary timetable from summer 1993. Much more infrequent and a greater variation in journey times with only the one daily Royal Scot doing GLC-EUS in under 5h.
IMG_20160715_035104.jpg
 

edwin_m

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And wasn't Newcastle-Edinburgh also threatened?

That was in the Beeching era, when it was proposed to run London-Edinburgh trains via the WCML and the Carstairs curve. Also in the early days of privatisation someone suggested de-electrifying north of Newcastle it as diesels were considered to be cheaper, but it wasn't proposed to reduce or divert the service.
 

route101

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Here's a slightly dodgy pic of the London-Scotland summary timetable from summer 1993. Much more infrequent and a greater variation in journey times with only the one daily Royal Scot doing GLC-EUS in under 5h.
View attachment 27374

Looks like a Glasgow to Kings cross train leaves at 2010 and gets in London next morning , train before the sleeper ? Cant quite make it out.
 

Hadders

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Looks like a Glasgow to Kings cross train leaves at 2010 and gets in London next morning , train before the sleeper ? Cant quite make it out.

Looks like it departs GLC 2010, goes via EDB and arrives 0500 at KGX.

Fridays only between 25th June and 27th August.
 

najaB

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Also in the early days of privatisation someone suggested de-electrifying north of Newcastle it as diesels were considered to be cheaper...
Just shows the difference that oil at $10/bbl versus $40/bbl (or $140/bbl) makes to the economics of electrification.
 
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johntea

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I'll always remember my first and only trip to Glasgow having decided to day trip there on the back of an Edinburgh trip - a combination of ScotRail breaking down on the way back to Edinburgh, and then East Coast deciding not to hold their service to Newcastle by a couple of minutes which was the last one that connected to the last Leeds service at Newcastle.

End result catching a later East Coast service to Newcastle then an enjoyable 2 hour taxi ride from Newcastle to Leeds with 6 or so other passengers followed by another taxi to get me home! I needed a lot of coffee at work the next morning :lol:

On the plus side I got a full refund of my £100 Leeds to Edinburgh ticket even though it wasn't strictly the fault of East Coast so that was nice!

Actually now that I think about it I remember it being we were meant to catch the direct CrossCountry service from Glasgow to Newcastle but that was cancelled hence having to ScotRail back to Edinburgh, so I probably claimed the refund off them rather than East Coast. :D
 
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