East Midlands Trains Meridian "First/Standard Class" coach

[All Line Rover]

Today was the first time I have travelled with EMT in First Class.

Which idiot came up with idea of having First and Standard Class in the same coach with no partition wall? :mad: hock: It's an absolutely ridiculous idea!

The distinction between First Class and Standard Class is immediately lowered as soon as you put the two in the same coach. I was not at all happy, as the coach wasn't exactly quiet! I have never, ever seen such a stupid layout.

Why did East Midlands Trains come up with this idea? It's bonkers! (I travelled on a non-refurbished train. Has the situation changed on the refurbished trains? By the way I do know that 7 car Meridians don't have this problem.)

And why does everyone say that the Class 222's as so "excellent?" What's all the raving about? They are no less claustrophobic than a Voyager, the toilets are identical, and First Class is much worse! The only thing I noticed was that the toilets didn't smell, but they don't always smell on a Voyager either. Thank goodness my local TOC is Virgin!

 

[trentside]

I also find this a strange arrangement, and can't understand the lack of a partition. The final individual seat in First Class is an awful place to sit on a crowded service. No privacy, or peace and quite at all. I'm curious to know how the Wi-Fi distinguishes between First and Standard passengers in this coach too?

 

[Mojo]

If you object to it so much, then sit in the coach that is entirely First class.

It is nothing to with East Midlands Trains. The units were originally operated by Midland Mainline who presumably specified the interior layout.

I much prefer the Meridians to Voyagers. The seats come across as a lot more luxurious and I find the interior design a lot more welcoming. Simple things like having the coach letter remaining static on the in-car displays whilst the information messages scroll past seem a lot more sensible to me.

 

[mikeg]

I'm going to go on one from Nottingham to London in August... Never been on a Meridian before, and am going first class. I'm booked in coach G, which according to wikipedia is the first class only coach.
What's so wrong about it? I suppose it spoils the mood of exclusivity a little...

And I believe it was Midland Mainline who did this, EMT have just inherited it.

 

[bb21]

I'm going to go on one from Nottingham to London in August... Never been on a Meridian before, and am going first class. I'm booked in coach G, which according to wikipedia is the first class only coach.
What's so wrong about it? I suppose it spoils the mood of exclusivity a little...

And I believe it was Midland Mainline who did this, EMT have just inherited it.

Might end up on an HST, which forms a large part of the diagrams from NOT, which also has Coach G entirely in First Class.

 

[Crossover]

I also find this a strange arrangement, and can't understand the lack of a partition. The final individual seat in First Class is an awful place to sit on a crowded service. No privacy, or peace and quite at all. I'm curious to know how the Wi-Fi distinguishes between First and Standard passengers in this coach too?

As far as I can tell, they don't, as I have picked up WiFi sat in that coach before while sat in SC.

Slightly different scenario but the FC on the Meridians is similar to that of some of the Scotrail 158's, which are done in the same way.

 

[Invincibles]

It is a strange arrangement, but I suppose the routes do not warrant two coaches of first class and there is sufficient demand in peak times for more than just the end carriage.

It is odd that they did not have a partition but maybe they felt it would somehow spoil the spaciousness of the inside of that carriage.

Certainly not something that has ever made me really angry though.

 

[asylumxl]

Having FC and STD in the same coach is truly terrible! An outrage! God forbid any of the demi-gods in FC should have to mix and mingle with mear mortals.

 

[mikeg]

Might end up on an HST, which forms a large part of the diagrams from NOT, which also has Coach G entirely in First Class.
/QUOTE]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's a Meridian as it originates at Sheffield. Did think about getting an HST for some VP185 action, but I've been on tons of HSTs, never been on a Meridian so I thought I'd see what all the fuss was about and whether or not they are 'so much better than Voyagers'.

 

[SS4]

Having FC and STD in the same coach is truly terrible! An outrage! God forbid any of the demi-gods in FC should have to mix and mingle with mear mortals.

Part of the appeal of First Class is to get peace and quiet though. A lot of First customers are elitist yes but then they've paid a premium for it

 

[junglejames]

Might end up on an HST, which forms a large part of the diagrams from NOT, which also has Coach G entirely in First Class.
/QUOTE]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's a Meridian as it originates at Sheffield. Did think about getting an HST for some VP185 action, but I've been on tons of HSTs, never been on a Meridian so I thought I'd see what all the fuss was about and whether or not they are 'so much better than Voyagers'.

Unless there are engineering works, arent all the Sheffield to Nottingham to London trains operated by HSTs?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Today was the first time I have travelled with EMT in First Class.

Which idiot came up with idea of having First and Standard Class in the same coach with no partition wall? :mad: hock: It's an absolutely ridiculous idea!

The distinction between First Class and Standard Class is immediately lowered as soon as you put the two in the same coach. I was not at all happy, as the coach wasn't exactly quiet! I have never, ever seen such a stupid layout.

Why did East Midlands Trains come up with this idea? It's bonkers! (I travelled on a non-refurbished train. Has the situation changed on the refurbished trains? By the way I do know that 7 car Meridians don't have this problem.)

And why does everyone say that the Class 222's as so "excellent?" What's all the raving about? They are no less claustrophobic than a Voyager, the toilets are identical, and First Class is much worse! The only thing I noticed was that the toilets didn't smell, but they don't always smell on a Voyager either. Thank goodness my local TOC is Virgin!

Agree having no partition is bonkers. Stupid idea.
Are you not being just a little harsh on the 222s though?
Admittedly they are nothing brilliant, and arent half as good as the HSTs, but compared to voyagers and pendys, Meridians are a godsend, especially in standard. A lot of the gubbins that virgin stuffed in the bulkheads has been removed and placed elsewhere, so there is more space width wise. Perhaps the reason it doesnt look any more spacious to you, is because they have used this extra space to put larger, nicer seats in. The seats are amazing compared to pendys and voyagers, but its not exactly difficult to beat those cheap looking seats virgin went for.

 

[Mike395]

I have to say, I'm a fan (certainly in the design sense) of the sense of space the split carriage gives, for both Standard and First ticket holders. That said, I do understand why it might irritate FC ticket holders, especially if the main FC carriage is full.

If you're lucky enough to get an ex-HT Meridian, they still have a partition in place (although you can still pick up the FC Wifi in Standard, which is the main reason I usually go for the split coach :P )

 

[MCR247]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's a Meridian as it originates at Sheffield. Did think about getting an HST for some VP185 action, but I've been on tons of HSTs, never been on a Meridian so I thought I'd see what all the fuss was about and whether or not they are 'so much better than Voyagers'.

Chances are it'll be a HST.

The only meridians on Nottingham - London are the xx02 stopper, none of which come from Sheffield, all start at Nottingham (except 0802 which has coaches from Lincoln)

The 0628 and 0750 are Meridians, but the other fasts at xx28 are HSTs

 

[All Line Rover]

If you object to it so much, then sit in the coach that is entirely First class.

It is nothing to with East Midlands Trains. The units were originally operated by Midland Mainline who presumably specified the interior layout.

I much prefer the Meridians to Voyagers. The seats come across as a lot more luxurious and I find the interior design a lot more welcoming. Simple things like having the coach letter remaining static on the in-car displays whilst the information messages scroll past seem a lot more sensible to me.

Yes, but coach G was full.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Having FC and STD in the same coach is truly terrible! An outrage! God forbid any of the demi-gods in FC should have to mix and mingle with mear mortals.

If First and Standard Class are in the same coach, with no partition, then what is the point of having First Class tickets? I don't think EMT have a quiet coach, but First Class is (on the whole) quieter than Standard Class. The coach I was in WAS NOT quiet!

I am extremely glad that Virgin have a quiet coach in Standard Class - it'd a godsend!

 

[Mike395]

You still get the upgraded seats and service - and in my experience (certainly off peak) First Class can be not THAT much quieter than Standard

I'm not sure I really see a problem with a split coach if I'm honest

 

[All Line Rover]

You still get the upgraded seats and service - and in my experience (certainly off peak) First Class can be not THAT much quieter than Standard

I'm not sure I really see a problem with a split coach if I'm honest

You won't have a problem with the split coach if you'd paid for a Standard Class ticket, but if you've paid about 3x the amount for a First Class ticket then most people will have a problem.

 

[Mike395]

You won't have a problem with the split coach if you'd paid for a Standard Class ticket, but if you've paid about 3x the amount for a First Class ticket then most people will have a problem.

I think that may be a bit of an over-generalisation

I've travelled First in a split carriage before, and the noise from Standard doesn't both me really - in any case, a lot of business travellers have headphones in anyway IME, which blocks out any background noise.

 

[Yew]

It doesnt help that the complimentaries in EMT first class are the worst out of any operator.

The First/Standard coach confused me a little, on the emt website it said hot food available, so i was expecting that coach to have a kitchen in the same area as a HST. I guess it was an admin error, as a 4 coach meridian doesnt have space for a kitchen.

However it does have space for an annoying rattle on the overhead racks

 

[DarloRich]

Having FC and STD in the same coach is truly terrible! An outrage! God forbid any of the demi-gods in FC should have to mix and mingle with mear mortals.

Well said - I find first class and those who use it disgusting. They should be put against the wall and shot as the capitalist pig dogs that they are, getting rich from the sweat of the common man, sitting in their padded seat sipping their complimentary refreshments and nibbling their complimentary sandwiches ( no doubt without crusts and formed of smoked salmon and cucumber, not your hardy, honest, decent, cheese and pickle) while surfing their business pages via the complimentary WIFI looking for new ways to oppress the proletariat - ARRISE BORTHERS AND DESTROY FIRST CLASS!

Seriously, I wonder if it may be to enable that carriage to be declassified on services where only one first class carriage can be justified and standard loadings are higher

 

[Failed Unit]

It doesnt help that the complimentaries in EMT first class are the worst out of any operator.

The First/Standard coach confused me a little, on the emt website it said hot food available, so i was expecting that coach to have a kitchen in the same area as a HST. I guess it was an admin error, as a 4 coach meridian doesnt have space for a kitchen.

However it does have space for an annoying rattle on the overhead racks

Really try Southern or South Eastern, even the seats are the same as the ones in standard. All you get is more chance of getting them. So at least you get something on EMT even if they have no partition. I think the composite coach gets declassified a lot.

 

[Mike395]

Really try Southern or South Eastern, even the seats are the same as the ones in standard. All you get is more chance of getting them. So at least you get something on EMT even if they have no partition. I think the composite coach gets declassified a lot.

It used to under MML fairly reliably off-peak, but it doesnt happen nearly as often nowadays.

 

[DarloRich]

It is the same on LM but you do get a nice antimacassar

 

[Yew]

Really try Southern or South Eastern, even the seats are the same as the ones in standard. All you get is more chance of getting them. So at least you get something on EMT even if they have no partition. I think the composite coach gets declassified a lot.

Sorry, I was meaning Like Virgin, EC, and possibly the services down to penzance. Generally they have better offerings in First than EMT. However I like EMT HST's more than EC ones (for the seating layout, the EMT HST with EC service would be my idea of heven)

 

[jaigee]

Chances are it'll be a HST.

The only meridians on Nottingham - London are the xx02 stopper, none of which come from Sheffield, all start at Nottingham (except 0802 which has coaches from Lincoln)

The 0628 and 0750 are Meridians, but the other fasts at xx28 are HSTs

As confirmation, this EMT timetable actually states whether the service is formed by either a Meridian or HST.

http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/TT1 May11 SX SO for web.pdf

 

[Failed Unit]

Sorry, I was meaning Like Virgin, EC, and possibly the services down to penzance. Generally they have better offerings in First than EMT. However I like EMT HST's more than EC ones (for the seating layout, the EMT HST with EC service would be my idea of heven)

Heaven happens, but I don't know the diagram. I am not sure if the try and keep it out of Scotland. Although the 0710 Leeds - Aberdeen returns to Leeds at the end of the day.

 

[All Line Rover]

Having FC and STD in the same coach is truly terrible! An outrage! God forbid any of the demi-gods in FC should have to mix and mingle with mear mortals.

First Class is supposed to be a premium product. That's why people pay extra for it! If you don't want to pay extra then don't travel First Class - it's that simple.

When I paid for my First Class ticket, I expected a First Class coach, not a "semi coach." Even Southern, who's FC is appallingly bad, have a partition door so that First Class seems "separate" from Standard.

Imagine if Southern installed some 2+1 seating at the end of a coach, slapped some "First Class" stickers on the windows and then said: "This part of the carriage is First Class from now on." I don't think First Class season ticket holders would be very happy!

The fact that I could have sat in the same coach, with the same amount of noise, and probably access the same Wi-Fi with a Standard Class ticket is what annoyed me most of all. I also agree that during peak time, if Standard Class "spills" into First Class, that can't be very pleasant for First Class ticket holders, especially since EMT hasn't "officially" de-classified First Class.

Why EMT can't install a parition door bewilders me. It can't be that difficult or expensive!

 

[thefab444]

Even Southern, who's FC is appallingly bad, have a partition door so that First Class seems "separate" from Standard.

Many of the older Southern 377s do not have a partition door, only the later ones (mostly 377/4s) with Southern spec interior do.

 

[yorkie]

You won't have a problem with the split coach if you'd paid for a Standard Class ticket, but if you've paid about 3x the amount for a First Class ticket then most people will have a problem.

Anyone who pays 3 times the price has far too much cash to spare, I like the idea of them subsidising us

I also find this a strange arrangement, and can't understand the lack of a partition. The final individual seat in First Class is an awful place to sit on a crowded service. No privacy, or peace and quite at all.

But you don't really get privacy and peace and quiet unless you have exclusive use of a compartment. Not many trains offer that these days!

Anyway today I can confirm that the FC passengers are not too rowdy so there isn't too much noise pollution into standard class

I'm curious to know how the Wi-Fi distinguishes between First and Standard passengers in this coach too?

Nope, it does not discriminate against customers in that coach, in contrast to Mr Souter's principles. Even "one of the beer-drinking, chip-eating, council house-dwelling, old Labour-voting masses from the North" much disliked by Brian Souter can get on Wifi. I went on a Stagecoach Bluebird bus in Aberdeenshire a couple of days ago and that had Wifi for all!.... but it didn't work for me.

 

[ainsworth74]

II guess it was an admin error, as a 4 coach meridian doesnt have space for a kitchen.

The kitchen, such as it is, is found in the driving vehicle of first class on all 222s rather than in the middle of the formation like on traditional coaching stock.

 

[All Line Rover]

Anyone who pays 3 times the price has far too much cash to spare, I like the idea of them subsidising us

I didn't pay 3x the price myself. And even when the FC ticket is 3x the price, the difference in pounds is smaller since I qualify for child tickets.