East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[YorkshireBear]

Oxford to Bedford as set out by the HLOS and CP5 final agreements.

 

[meridian2]

Well I went down to Swanbourne the other day...


..and there was still no track.

I think that says it all really. The credibility of this project vanished when the last freight ran over it 21 years ago.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Well I went down to Swanbourne the other day...


..and there was still no track.

I think that says it all really.

I am afraid i am putting you down as a troll and refuse to converse with you.

 

[swt_passenger]

Which part of East West Rail 'has to happen'? The western bit (despite misgivings from local councils). The central bit? (barely nothing left of the original alignment save for a cycle path), or the eastern bit?

The western section is all that has ever been announced. The construction dates are in the CP5 enhancements plan as 'by 2019', and that is the matter the original poster was asking about.

Bringing the central and eastern sections into the argument is clouding the issues, it is common knowledge that they are unlikely to be progressed in the medium term, most obviously because DfT have never asked for them to be built...

 

[TheKnightWho]

And you believe them?

More fool you mate.

So, in other words, we have considerable evidence it's happening. But then, no evidence will be good enough for you will it?

If there's no possible situation in which your argument could ever be proven wrong, you have a bad argument.

Well I went down to Swanbourne the other day...


..and there was still no track.

I think that says it all really. The credibility of this project vanished when the last freight ran over it 21 years ago.

I had a look at the HS2 route the other day. There was no track! Clearly it's never going to happen.

It's a project due to be finished in 2019. Are you really surprised?

 

[meridian2]

Then show me this 'considerable evidence' or shut up.

All you have is 'considerable bluster' I have my doubts and I get called a troll.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Then show me this 'considerable evidence' or shut up.

All you have is 'considerable bluster' I have my doubts and I get called a troll.

The fact that it's in the Control Period spec? You know, that thing that pretty much mandates action? Why are you so cynical about this one project in particular?

If I've got no evidence it's going to not happen then I'm going to stick with the status quo thank you very much. That means thinking it's going to happen.

All you have is constant moaning and a couple of extremely weak points. If you have to make the point there's no track yet then you clearly have no idea.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Then show me this 'considerable evidence' or shut up.

All you have is 'considerable bluster' I have my doubts and I get called a troll.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/determination/

 

[swt_passenger]

The civil engineering contract for the work between Oxford and Bicester (awarded at a cost of £87m to Buckinghams a few months back), includes both Chiltern Evergreen 3 and East West rail infrastructure improvements:

An £87m contract to deliver the design and construction of the new Chiltern Railways route between London Marylebone and Oxford and the western section of the East West Rail scheme to Bedford and Milton Keynes has been awarded by Network Rail.
http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/news/ps87m-construction-contract-awarded-buckinghamshire-company

Chiltern's requirements did not include the full re-doubling, or the second platform at Islip.

The fact these aspects of EWR are being undertaken now makes it rather unlikely they'll abandon the EWR project beyond Bicester...

 

[meridian2]

At last, thanks for those documents. Wasn't so hard was it?

 

[TheKnightWho]

At last, thanks for those documents. Wasn't so hard was it?

Or you could have Googled them when they were repeatedly mentioned? :roll: It's not our job to keep you informed.

 

[HSTEd]

This is where I jump in and propose that we forget EWR as currently projected and instead build a Varsity Shinkansen between Oxford and Cambridge.

30 minutes with two intermediate station stops at Milton Keynes and Bedford - or ~22 minutes non-stop.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I wouldn't bother with Bedford

 

[pemma]

it's in the HLOS, promised for 2017, yet we're now given a new date.

You mean like Manchester-York going to 5tph was in the CP4 HLOS as December 2012 but ended up as May 2014?

Or like the CP4 HLOS said Northern were supposed to get a brand new set of EMUs with LM getting the Northern 323s for extra capacity, which now will never happen?

Something in the HLOS doesn't mean it's guaranteed to happen on the date specified.

 

[aylesbury2]

I've got some shots off of street view of the line north of Aylesbury Vale Parkway:

 

[DarloRich]

I dont think anything has really slipped but i best tell the guys working on the project to stop as it is going to be cancelled!

Not sure quite what Meridian2 expects to have happened so far........

 

[meridian2]

I dont think anything has really slipped but i best tel lthe guys workign on the project to stop as it is going t o be cancelled!

Not sure quite what Meridian2 expects to have happended so far........

Still reading the documents YorkshireBear linked to me.
All that I expect is to get to the end of them.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Just press CTRL F then search East West. There is about 4 paragraphs.

 

[meridian2]

OK, I've finally read the document provided in the link by YorkshireBear and it appears I've misunderstood the situation greatly.

I've been following the progress of the 'Western Section' of EWR for some time and I had assumed the project had reached GRIP4, that was until I saw this paragraph:

For East West Rail, the output specification for the project continues to develop. The
development project scope is therefore at a relatively early stage (i.e. GRIP stage 2 rather
than GRIP stage 4 as assumed in the Draft Determination by ORR). The possibility of
additional scope to deliver the required output specification (such as additional freight
looping facilities, or a fifth line between Bletchley and Milton Keynes) cannot yet be ruled out
until further investigative work has been completed. Similarly, until the effects of the
interface with HS2 at Claydon and, potentially, the relationship with the “Electric Spine”
proposals are assessed, we consider the reduction in funding by the ORR to be premature

Now I assume this 'relative early stage' is because the initial assessment failed to take into account the 'Electric Spine' proposals? My obvious question is: why bother waiting for the 'Electric Spine'? The PM is still in tact for the most part, so it's basically a case of just renewing the track. Why can't they get that off the ground, with trains running, before implementing the wires?

If the document is accurate, it seems to be a valid reason for delaying the project.

 

[YorkshireBear]

There are political ramifications of opening a line then immediately closing it again and at regular intervals for upgrade works. They are going to try and do some it all at once. LIke Airdrie- Bathgate.

There is also the issue of deteriorating structures and earthworks along the route to deal with.

 

[edwin_m]

Like most railway works the elecrification (and associated jobs such as structure rebuilds) will be a lot quicker and cheaper if done before the line re-opens.

 

[jimm]

Like most railway works the elecrification (and associated jobs such as structure rebuilds) will be a lot quicker and cheaper if done before the line re-opens.

Any structure changes will be carried out during the route reconstruction, whatever the timetable for reopening and electrification.

Oxford-Bicester is, of course, under way already in conjunction with Chiltern's Evergreen scheme, and will be complete long before a wiring train goes anywhere near the place. And DfT had agreed to pay for W10 gauge clearance work at Wolvercote Tunnel in Oxford before East West reopening was agreed, never mind the idea of the Electric Spine was adopted.

Railway engineers aren't daft. BR was making sure new structures had enough headroom for wiring years ago, whatever the prospects for electrification. My local station is on to its second such footbridge, still with no date for wiring on the horizon.

 

[swt_passenger]

Railway engineers aren't daft. BR was making sure new structures had enough headroom for wiring years ago, whatever the prospects for electrification. My local station is on to its second such footbridge, still with no date for wiring on the horizon.

AIUI (purely by the looks of them) all the new 'Access for All' footbridges put in around South Hants over the last few years are clear for OHLE, places like Fareham, Fratton, Southampton Parkway, Winchester, and the one currently going in at Brockenhurst. I think even that at Woolston, which wasn't A for A, is a tall structure.

 

[Tobbes]

AIUI (purely by the looks of them) all the new 'Access for All' footbridges put in around South Hants over the last few years are clear for OHLE, places like Fareham, Fratton, Southampton Parkway, Winchester, and the one currently going in at Brockenhurst. I think even that at Woolston, which wasn't A for A, is a tall structure.

Like this one in Ipswich?

It's a vast structure, and appreciably higher than the old footbridge that is much tighter on the OHLE.

 

[edwin_m]

Railway engineers aren't daft. BR was making sure new structures had enough headroom for wiring years ago, whatever the prospects for electrification. My local station is on to its second such footbridge, still with no date for wiring on the horizon.

As a railway engineer I'm well aware of that.

The issue is firstly that there may be structures which are OK for a diesel route but would need rebuilding for electrification. There is a case for doing these before the line opens. There is also a case, probably less strong, for doing some or all of the wiring before it opens as was done at Reading.

 

[swt_passenger]

Like this one in Ipswich?

It's a vast structure, and appreciably higher than the old footbridge that is much tighter on the OHLE.

Very similar - they all seem to be fabricated with only slight variations on the standard design in your pic.

 

[meridian2]

Railway engineers aren't daft. BR was making sure new structures had enough headroom for wiring years ago, whatever the prospects for electrification. My local station is on to its second such footbridge, still with no date for wiring on the horizon.

No, but they are shackled by unnecessary administration and layers of bureaucracy, and don't forget, BR was, first and foremost, ran as a business.

 

[davetheguard]

Like this one in Ipswich?

It's a vast structure, and appreciably higher than the old footbridge that is much tighter on the OHLE.

I do wish I knew how, in simple layman's terms, how to upload a photograph with a post.

There's times when it really helps to illustrate a point - literally!

 

[Tobbes]

I do wish I knew how, in simple layman's terms, how to upload a photograph with a post.

There's times when it really helps to illustrate a point - literally!

I'm a newbie at this too, Dave.

On the reply box there is a set of buttons - including a picture button. Click on it and it will ask for a link to the picture you want to show. That should do it.

 

[davetheguard]

I'm a newbie at this too, Dave.

On the reply box there is a set of buttons - including a picture button. Click on it and it will ask for a link to the picture you want to show. That should do it.

Thanks a lot, Tobbes.

I'll have a go to a different post later.

I don't know how I managed to miss that attachments button really.......

(Can't see the wood for the trees?)