East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[CockneySparrow]

Is it known yet who'll be running the service? Chiltern's franchise will expire exactly 2 years after the link is opened in December 2019 so will it be them or someone else?

Probably Chiltern will continue, they have been one of the best TOC working on improvements investing time and money

DFT will just extend I would imagine

 

[The Planner]

Evergreen 3 wasn't as much of a success for Chiltern as they may make out, it fell flat on its arse a few times.

 

[swt_passenger]

Probably Chiltern will continue, they have been one of the best TOC working on improvements investing time and money

They are in a unique arrangement, because they were the only franchise ever let requiring them to provide infrastructure improvements. So they are only 'the best' because no other TOC has ever had to do the same...

In any case the question was about which franchise area or areas the service would be added to. Whether the current Chiltern franchisee keeps the contract is really of no relevance to where DfT put the services when the decision is made...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Probably Chiltern will continue, they have been one of the best TOC working on improvements investing time and money
DFT will just extend I would imagine

Unless policy changes, the Chiltern franchise will be rebid competitively in 2021.
The direct awards finish in 2019 on the current timetable, so they are not involved.

 

[aylesbury2]

I found an article from 2002 saying that East-West Rail could have opened in 2003...and 12 years later, it is still not going to open for at least another 5 years!

 

[YorkshireBear]

I found an article from 2002 saying that East-West Rail could have opened in 2003...and 12 years later, it is still not going to open for at least another 5 years!

That was some bloke spouting off though really....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Evergreen 3 wasn't as much of a success for Chiltern as they may make out, it fell flat on its arse a few times.

What do you mean by that? (Not saying it hasn't just interested)

 

[jimm]

As a railway engineer I'm well aware of that.

The issue is firstly that there may be structures which are OK for a diesel route but would need rebuilding for electrification. There is a case for doing these before the line opens. There is also a case, probably less strong, for doing some or all of the wiring before it opens as was done at Reading.

I know there is a case for rebuilding structures before reopening - and my point was that is exactly what is happening right now between Oxford and Bicester, well ahead of wiring, and will also happen east of Bicester when the time comes.

I fail to see what work that was done in a complex station environment at Reading, during a handy extended blockade period alongside other work, has to do with wiring what is, with the exception of a couple of simple junctions at Bicester and Claydon, essentially going to be a bog-standard stretch of double track railway that is hardly going to pose the greatest challenge for a wiring team.

No, but they are shackled by unnecessary administration and layers of bureaucracy, and don't forget, BR was, first and foremost, ran as a business.

You really are a prophet of doom, aren't you? BR had a policy dating back many years that all new structures should have adequate clearance for overhead wires, which sound like good business sense to me, nothing to do with being shackled by unnecessary administration and bureaucracy - two things that the privatised, fragmented railway seems to abound in, rather more so than the vertically-integrated BR.

 

[swt_passenger]

I fail to see what work that was done in a complex station environment at Reading, during a handy extended blockade period alongside other work, has to do with wiring what is, with the exception of a couple of simple junctions at Bicester and Claydon, essentially going to be a bog-standard stretch of double track railway that is hardly going to pose the greatest challenge for a wiring team.

In fact the Reading station area itself is not really a good example of 'wiring' in advance anyway, because as of now there is no wiring on any running lines, it is only the east end of the stabling and depot area that has wires up.

Yes there are many gantries and uprights installed all over the station site and its approaches - and a couple more arrive most weekends - but apart from the P12-P15 area (the brand new relief side platforms) much has been installed around and above a working railway during normal weekend closures.

And when Amey eventually show up to fit the actual OHLE and everything else associated with it they'll be doing it within overnight and weekend engineering blocks as normal.

 

[meridian2]

You really are a prophet of doom, aren't you? BR had a policy dating back many years that all new structures should have adequate clearance for overhead wires, which sound like good business sense to me, nothing to do with being shackled by unnecessary administration and bureaucracy - two things that the privatised, fragmented railway seems to abound in, rather more so than the vertically-integrated BR.

Not a 'prophet of doom', just someone who doesn't see the world through rose-tinted glasses, unlike most on here, and I wasn't referring to bureaucracy in BR's days. I was referring to the fact that engineers of today have to do a lot of hoop-jumping to satisfy the requirements from the modern railway.

 

[snowball]

I found an article from 2002 saying that East-West Rail could have opened in 2003...and 12 years later, it is still not going to open for at least another 5 years!

Wasn't the present Thameslink once known as Thameslink 2000?

 

[jimm]

Not a 'prophet of doom', just someone who doesn't see the world through rose-tinted glasses, unlike most on here, and I wasn't referring to bureaucracy in BR's days. I was referring to the fact that engineers of today have to do a lot of hoop-jumping to satisfy the requirements from the modern railway.

If you're not a prophet of doom, then what was your first post in this thread all about?

The whole thing is one massive pipe dream; the state of the track, the amount of track missing in certain areas. It's going to cost more than HS2 and that's more likely to be delivered to be honest.

So utterly fed up of this whole EWRL scheme and it's 'smoke and mirrors', constantly leaving local councils in a state of flux as to what will happen to the Claydon line.

As others have noted, for a pipe dream, there are an awful lot of people working on all aspects of this project.

 

[meridian2]

If you're not a prophet of doom, then what was your first post in this thread all about?



As others have noted, for a pipe dream, there are an awful lot of people working on all aspects of this project.

Yes I can understand that and I have acknowledged my misunderstanding further up, but, like all NR projects, they don't make it easy for the general public to understand what stage these projects are at.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Wasn't the present Thameslink once known as Thameslink 2000?

yes it was

 

[davetheguard]

As I understand it, the contract awarded to contractors Carillion/Buckingham Group not only covers the works rebuilding the Bicester - Oxford section for Chiltern's service from Marylebone (which is well underway), but also the western section of East West Rail to Bletchley etc.

Is there a known start date for these "east of Bicester" works: is it due to start soon; or will work not commence until after the London Marylebone to Oxford service has started to run?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is there a known start date for these "east of Bicester" works: is it due to start soon; or will work not commence until after the London Marylebone to Oxford service has started to run?

Start date for Phase 2 of East-West Rail is August 2017, but they haven't got to GRIP 2 (feasibility) yet (well, it was due in June), so the dates are "indicative".
It's on P41 of this: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/cp5-delivery-plan/
(Enhancements delivery plan, 30 June update)

 

[davetheguard]

Start date for Phase 2 of East-West Rail is August 2017, but they haven't got to GRIP 2 (feasibility) yet (well, it was due in June), so the dates are "indicative".
It's on P41 of this: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/cp5-delivery-plan/
(Enhancements delivery plan, 30 June update)

Thanks LNW-GW Joint.

So, constuction starting in August 2017, line open in March 2019. It seems building the thing is actually quite quick; shame we have to have so many years (and years!) of planning and jaw jaw before hand!

Still, we are where we are, and it'll be brilliant when it's done!

 

[TheKnightWho]

Thanks LNW-GW Joint.

So, constuction starting in August 2017, line open in March 2019. It seems building the thing is actually quite quick; shame we have to have so many years (and years!) of planning and jaw jaw before hand!

Still, we are where we are, and it'll be brilliant when it's done!

Am I late to the game here, or do I see Sheffield-ECML electrification due for completion 2021 and in GRIP 3 for the first time?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Am I late to the game here, or do I see Sheffield-ECML electrification due for completion 2021 and in GRIP 3 for the first time?

Still in Grip 2 I think, until Jan 2015. Grip 3 May 2016.
I should think the 2021 date is just a guess, with no funding agreed.

 

[aylesbury]

The line east to Bletchley should have been opened ten years ago, but the DfT blocked it.

Now it is going ahead and many residents of Aylesbury and Winslow can't wait to have access to a wider range of destinations.

You can't just put track back without a great deal of work along the lines total length as dereliction creates many problems.

Looking at the trackbed through Winslow, you can see where the cutting has slipped and all the culverts are collapsed or blocked. That alone will take time to rectify; a modern railway is vastly different from the 1960s track, so lets be patient and let the pros get on with job.

 

[Chris125]

The June newsletter is now available - Project Progress 20 June 2014
Chris

Work to construct the chord to link the Chiltern Mainline is progressing swiftly. A new footbridge has been installed at Tubbs Lane and crossing improvements have been made at London Road level crossing in Bicester. The platforms at Bicester town station have been demolished and a site compound for the station construction work has been established at Banbury Road Sidings...

 

[L&Y Robert]

I had a look at the much-photographed Charbrigdge Lane (A4421) level crossing yesterday (12/08/2014). It is a single-line level crossing on Bicester's eastern by-pass, but looking westward one can see far away the end of the new 'down' track end, ready to be extended east through the crossing and on to Bletchley. The road was busy yesterday lunch-time, a constant stream of fairly fast road traffic in both directions. I tried to imagine the impact of four crossing closures per hour, double tracks, overhead wires and all that - on a by-pass! There must be, somewhere deep down in officialdom, a plans for an over-bridge, surely? And a bit further east is the level crossing of Station Road, Launton. Just a country lane, this one, but a surprising amount of road traffic yesterday.

 

[Altnabreac]

I had a look at the much-photographed Charbrigdge Lane (A4421) level crossing yesterday (12/08/2014). It is a single-line level crossing on Bicester's eastern by-pass, but looking westward one can see far away the end of the new 'down' track end, ready to be extended east through the crossing and on to Bletchley. The road was busy yesterday lunch-time, a constant stream of fairly fast road traffic in both directions. I tried to imagine the impact of four crossing closures per hour, double tracks, overhead wires and all that - on a by-pass! There must be, somewhere deep down in officialdom, a plans for an over-bridge, surely? And a bit further east is the level crossing of Station Road, Launton. Just a country lane, this one, but a surprising amount of road traffic yesterday.

Funnily enough the Project Update newsletter linked to by Chris above mentions this very issue.
http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/site...cuments/east_west_rail_-_project_update_6.pdf

Notice of Consultations on Crossings and Rights of Way

There are 104 railway crossings along the East West Rail route. All of these crossings have been reviewed by a dedicated ‘Crossings and Rights of Way’ team to identify what modifications may be required in order to make the railway and crossings as safe as practically possible before East West Rail train services start to operate. The team has identified potential solutions to replace and improve safety at crossings and public rights of way across the railway, and has been in discussion with the local authorities’ Rights of Way Officers, land owners, residents and special interest groups to help identify initial options and proposals.

Between August 2014 and January 2015, a series of consultation meetings is planned where stakeholders are invited to review and comment on these initial proposals for improving railway crossings in Buckinghamshire (west of Bletchley) and Oxfordshire. The purpose of these meetings is to draw on local knowledge at an early stage before more detailed design proposals are developed to help deliver the most appropriate solutions. This series of meetings is a forerunner to any formal consultation required as part of the statutory process to obtain any necessary authorisation for the East West Rail scheme through a Transport and Works Act order.

Further information about work on crossings between Bedford and Bletchley will follow at a later stage.

The relevant meeting for the A4421 is scheduled to be on Wednesday 19th September 2014 and cover the following crossings:
Launton
Launton No 2
Launton No 1
Grange Farm
Manor Farm
Bicester Eastern Perimeter Road
Jarvis Lane Footpath
Bicester London Road

Meeting location lists Launton & Bicester so maybe 2 meetings are planned for that day?

 

[DarloRich]

There an an awful lot of crossings between Bicester and Bedford! There are 13 road level crossings between Fenny Stratford and Bedford and goodness knows how many foot crossings/accomodation crossings.

It will be a big job just consulting on the crossing changes!

 

[HowardGWR]

I had a look at the much-photographed Charbrigdge Lane (A4421) level crossing yesterday (12/08/2014). It is a single-line level crossing on Bicester's eastern by-pass, but looking westward one can see far away the end of the new 'down' track end, ready to be extended east through the crossing and on to Bletchley. The road was busy yesterday lunch-time, a constant stream of fairly fast road traffic in both directions. I tried to imagine the impact of four crossing closures per hour, double tracks, overhead wires and all that - on a by-pass! There must be, somewhere deep down in officialdom, a plans for an over-bridge, surely? And a bit further east is the level crossing of Station Road, Launton. Just a country lane, this one, but a surprising amount of road traffic yesterday.

Could the road not be diverted over to the Bicester Road and the bridge there perhaps just be widened with a cycle bridge alongside the present bridge? The nearby property is called The Tithe Barn on Google earth. Of course, perhaps that bridge has to be rebuilt (higher for the wires) anyway?

 

[67018]

Could the road not be diverted over to the Bicester Road and the bridge there perhaps just be widened with a cycle bridge alongside the present bridge? The nearby property is called The Tithe Barn on Google earth. Of course, perhaps that bridge has to be rebuilt (higher for the wires) anyway?

It's worth noting that the Bicester Road bridge you mention would need quite considerable widening, given that it's currently a single track bridge with traffic light controls. It would also mean relocating the roundabout at the junction of the bypass and Bicester Road to a location much closer to Launton village, possibly knocking down the 14th century Tythe Barn, and introducing an awkward kink into a busy road heavily used by HGVs.

I suspect that raising the road along the existing alignment would be much cheaper.

 

[HowardGWR]

It's worth noting that the Bicester Road bridge you mention would need quite considerable widening, given that it's currently a single track bridge with traffic light controls. It would also mean relocating the roundabout at the junction of the bypass and Bicester Road to a location much closer to Launton village, possibly knocking down the 14th century Tythe Barn, and introducing an awkward kink into a busy road heavily used by HGVs.

I suspect that raising the road along the existing alignment would be much cheaper.

Fair enough, thanks. On the Bicester Rd bridge, with your knowledge, is it giving enough headroom for OLE do you think? If not perhaps it could better be rebuilt for dual traffic anyway. I had not noticed it was one way at a time only and with traffic lights, otherwise I would have never suggested it.

 

[21C101]

There an an awful lot of crossings between Bicester and Bedford! There are 13 road level crossings between Fenny Stratford and Bedford and goodness knows how many foot crossings/accomodation crossings.

It will be a big job just consulting on the crossing changes!

This is of course one reason that many secondary routes went in the 60's. Often they were built more on the cheap than main lines and, if they had been kept open the railways had the choice of paying for dozens of signalman at gate boxes or modernising large numbers of level crossings. Not to mention electric lighting for platforms, decent surfaces for platforms, and often the track was on its last legs and would need wholesale replacement soon.

I'm sure that Barnstaple to Ilfracombe would never had closed but for the nine level crossings on it.

 

[67018]

Fair enough, thanks. On the Bicester Rd bridge, with your knowledge, is it giving enough headroom for OLE do you think? If not perhaps it could better be rebuilt for dual traffic anyway. I had not noticed it was one way at a time only and with traffic lights, otherwise I would have never suggested it.

At a guess, and only ever having been over rather than under it, there looks like enough space for OLE. The road on the approaches is elevated above the surrounding land and the bridge has a noticeable hump - if they had to raise it, it would be quite hair-raising to go over!

The road is a handy short cut to the A41, but one that the local villagers probably don't want to encourage so they might be against widening the bridge.

It would be nice to think that a solution in this area could be designed soon, while there's a decent amount of open land around, rather than trying to shoe horn something in once it's all been built up.

 

[DarloRich]

This is of course one reason that many secondary routes went in the 60's. Often they were built more on the cheap than main lines and, if they had been kept open the railways had the choice of paying for dozens of signalman at gate boxes or modernising large numbers of level crossings. Not to mention electric lighting for platforms, decent surfaces for platforms, and often the track was on its last legs and would need wholesale replacement soon.

I'm sure that Barnstaple to Ilfracombe would never had closed but for the nine level crossings on it.

The brickworks and later filling in the brick pits with waste from London kept the Marston Vale line open, crossings and all.

Since 2004 the line has been signalled from one signal centre aka portacabin at Ridgmont with the crossings covered from their.

Something will have to happen to the crossings but several will present large challenges to sort out. Woburn Sands and Fenny Stratford spring to mind being landlocked with no alterntive route to hand.

 

[Chris125]

New study supports economic case for ‘Central Section’ rail link

The East West Rail Consortium has published a report into the economic benefits of reopening the central section through to Cambridge:

East West Rail Central Section Conditional Outputs Statement – Explanatory Note
East West Rail Central Section Conditional Outputs Statement – Executive Summary
East West Rail Central Section Conditional Outputs Statement – Final Report

Chris