EC Mimara and EC Croatia

[Stephen Lee]

EC Mimara used to have through coaches to Germany while EC Croatia used to run to Vienna. However, it seems like both the through coaches to Germany and the Graz - Wien section of EC Croatia has been discountinued. I wondered if this is related to the opening of Koralmbahn and the IR services proposed by ÖBB

FYI, the proposed IR services are as follows,

• IR Aichfeld: Klagenfurt – Unzmarkt – Bruck/Mur – Graz
  • 60-Minuten-Takt (120-Minuten-Takt nach Graz, zwischen Bruck an der Mur und Graz gemeinsam geführt mit IR Ennstal-Pinzgau)
• IR Ennstal-Pinzgau: Wörgl – Bischofshofen – Salzburg/Graz
  • 120-Minuten-Takt Wörgl – Bischofshofen – Salzburg
  • 120-Minuten-Takt Wörgl – Bischofshofen – Selzthal – Bruck/Mur – Graz (zwischen Bruck an der Mur und Graz gemeinsam geführt mit IR Aichfeld)
• IR Pyhrn: Graz – Leoben – Selzthal – Linz
  • 120-Minuten-Takt
• IR Alpe-Adria: Salzburg – Bischofshofen – Villach – Tarvisio Boscoverde
  • 120-Minuten-Takt
• IR Mur-Drau: Graz – Spielfeld-Straß – Maribor
  • 60-Minuten-Takt Montag bis Freitag, 120-Minuten-Takt Samstag und Sonntag
• IR Donau-Moldau: Linz – Summerau – Praha
  • 240-Minuten-Takt (spätere Verdichtung auf 120-Minuten-Takt geplant)

 

[Austriantrain]

EC Mimara used to have through coaches to Germany while EC Croatia used to run to Vienna. However, it seems like both the through coaches to Germany and the Graz - Wien section of EC Croatia has been discountinued. I wondered if this is related to the opening of Koralmbahn and the IR services proposed by ÖBB

FYI, the proposed IR services are as follows,

Not related to it. Trains from Croatia are very often very much delayed (even though Croatia is now in Schengen) and play havoc with Austrian Takt timetables. So the decision was made to sever the through trains, also freeing some ÖBB stock, which is in very short supply. Demand is not huge either, since the Slovenian and Croatian networks are so slow - most people take a coach, if they don’t have a car.

I do hope though that the situation will reverse at some point.

 

[Stephen Lee]

Not related to it. Trains from Croatia are very often very much delayed (even though Croatia is now in Schengen) and play havoc with Austrian Takt timetables. So the decision was made to sever the through trains, also freeing some ÖBB stock, which is in very short supply. Demand is not huge either, since the Slovenian and Croatian networks are so slow - most people take a coach, if they don’t have a car.

I do hope though that the situation will reverse at some point.

Is it also the reason why the Munich - Beograd through coaches are cancelled?

 

[HS2isgood]

Is it also the reason why the Munich - Beograd through coaches are cancelled?

No, there's works requiring so many detours that it's not viable. The whole mainline between Budapest and Novi Sad is closed.

 

[rg177]

Yeah, I've taken both Croatia and Mimara and both suffered unexplainably long delays at Dobova.

The first time was pre-Schengen, but we still managed to lose 45 minutes.

The second time was post-Schengen and we still spent nearly an hour there for the good of our health...

Reliability within Slovenia itself wasn't awful - but the last stint in/out of Zagreb coupled with the border causes havoc.

 

[Stephen Lee]

Yeah, I've taken both Croatia and Mimara and both suffered unexplainably long delays at Dobova.

The first time was pre-Schengen, but we still managed to lose 45 minutes.

The second time was post-Schengen and we still spent nearly an hour there for the good of our health...

Reliability within Slovenia itself wasn't awful - but the last stint in/out of Zagreb coupled with the border causes havoc.

Why don’t let the SZ 541s and ÖBB 1216s to go to Croatia ?

Not related to it. Trains from Croatia are very often very much delayed (even though Croatia is now in Schengen) and play havoc with Austrian Takt timetables. So the decision was made to sever the through trains, also freeing some ÖBB stock, which is in very short supply. Demand is not huge either, since the Slovenian and Croatian networks are so slow - most people take a coach, if they don’t have a car.

I do hope though that the situation will reverse at some point.

Even when the situation is reversed, I think railjets will be deployed even for services to the 2 ex-Yugoslavian countries

 

[StephenHunter]

Why don’t let the SZ 541s and ÖBB 1216s to go to Croatia ?

Signalling issues, perhaps?

 

[43096]

Why don’t let the SZ 541s and ÖBB 1216s to go to Croatia ?

Perhaps because there's a limited number of them and they are better utilised elsewhere?

 

[Cloud Strife]

Reliability within Slovenia itself wasn't awful - but the last stint in/out of Zagreb coupled with the border causes havoc.

It's anecdotal, but I've spoken to a conductor on one of the obscure cross-border Slovenian services, and he said that there are quite routinely problems with Croatia delaying trains for no apparent reason, even on very lightly used lines. He gave the example of waiting for nearly three hours once to reach Čakovec, as the Croatian police wouldn't authorise the train to enter Croatia. They proposed that the train could stop next to the road border in Trnovec for clearance, but apparently "no".

And this was on a train used by a handful of passengers at the most.

 

[AlbertBeale]

If the through trains are discontinued, then where will people change en route from Austria (and the north) to Slovenia and Croatia?

If those international journeys - because they involve a connection - don't show up on international timetables, it'll have a negative effect on the use of rail for those journeys.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

On a positive note for Slovenia - European Rail Timetable are reporting that a through EC Milano - Ljublijana service may start in April. This will avoid faffing around in Villa Opicina, particularly as the tramway shows no sign of reopening.

 

[Austriantrain]

If the through trains are discontinued, then where will people change en route from Austria (and the north) to Slovenia and Croatia?

If those international journeys - because they involve a connection - don't show up on international timetables, it'll have a negative effect on the use of rail for those journeys.

Of course they do show up. You change in Graz and Villach respectively.

 

[AlbertBeale]

On a positive note for Slovenia - European Rail Timetable are reporting that a through EC Milano - Ljublijana service may start in April. This will avoid faffing around in Villa Opicina, particularly as the tramway shows no sign of reopening.

Yes - I noticed that - good news. Though in and out of Trieste on the way; not a very speedy journey. At least that provides connections between Slovenia to/from the north at places like Venice and Verona. But losing direct Austria-Balkans services is really a backwards step.

 

[jack31439]

2 trips through Dobova I've had delayed pretty bad. Once the northbound train was so delayed and I was there early enough in advance it was more time efficient to get the local to Harmica, then walk the mile or two over the border to Dobova to pick up the SZ to Ljubljana, despite the lady in the ticket office insisting this wasn't possible. I think she meant as a fare, but still managed it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

An EU report into cutting delays across Schengen/non-Schengen borders in the Balkans (this was well before Croatia joined Schengen) concluded that the main reason for delay was not the EU regulations, but the unwillingness of state railway authorities to accept each other's rail vehicles without local inspection, and also the lack of through working of locomotives and crews.
This was particularly aimed at the Hungary/Romania rail crossings.
What's odd about the Slovenia/Croatia crossing is that they used to be in the same state rail organisation in living memory.
Dobova is of course the changeover point from Slovenia's 3kV DC and Croatia's 25kv AC networks.
There will always be a technical border there, but these days there are multi-voltage solutions.

Even the recent Schengen agreement with Romania and Bulgaria is only for air/sea ports of entry.
Road and rail borders will still apply non-Schengen rules until there is agreement on the processing of refugees into the Schengen zone.
It's their "stop the boats" equivalent measure, led by Austria and Hungary.

 

[Austriantrain]

But losing direct Austria-Balkans services is really a backwards step.

Not for those regularly confronted with large delays (and only a tiny percentage of passengers on those trains come from Croatia or even Slovenia). There is not just one side to this.

I agree, the aim should be to restore those trains and I have hopes for it. But Croatian railways need to get their act together and border procedures improved. And the fundamental problem will remain the same: train journeys are so slow that the great majority of travellers uses car or coach.

 

[YorkshireBear]

We recently did a Ljubljana to Bratislava trip that involved changing at Maribor onto what was the Zagreb to Vienna EC service. We were the only people in our carriage on the two carriage train from Zagreb to Graz from Maribor. Changed at graz, very efficient cross platform onto a full and standing 7 carriage Austrian EC set for the remainder.