Ecclesbourne Valley Railway News & Updates

[alexl92]

From a photo on Facebook it looks as if the overhaul of Bagnall Austerity ‘The Duke’ is well progressed, with the repaint in progress.

 

[nferguso]

Hello everybody,

As Chairman of EVR, I thought it worth giving you a bit of an update and try and answer some of the observations and questions raised over the past few weeks.

First of all, as a relatively new heritage line, we have had to grow quickly. Our first passenger services, within the precincts of Wirksworth first took place in 2004 and by the spring of 2011 we had extended our operations along the whole extent of our line, approximately nine miles to Duffield where we share a station with East Midlands Railway.

In 2011, turnover was approximately £250k while turnover for the year 2022 was £575k, representing growth of about 7% every year while the economy grew at an annual rate of 1.2%. Putting that in plain terms, we have indeed grown quickly and with it comes a series of challenges, particularly when it comes to the organisation. Even up to around 2021, many of the core functions of the railway were resting on too few pairs of shoulders and there's an interesting study to be had in examining the dynamics of growing heritage railways as they develop from a small team with picks and shovels into a commercially-focused business that must also have a vehicle engineering function, civil engineering, catering, sales, a web presence etc. etc.

There is absolutely no denying that part of the growth has been as a result of moving from DMUs to locomotive-hauled coaching stock (LHCS). in turn, the arrival of LHCS brought forward a growing emphasis on steam rather than diesel haulage. The reasons are straightforward: if you are going to attract growth, then you need to attract the general public, and they have a single basic view: Old trains mean steam trains. Therefore, if you are seeking to attract a general audience, heritage and steam are inextricably linked to one another.

So where do diesels fit into this equation? Naturally, there are people who prefer diesel traction but that is a niche market, namely us - enthusiasts - and a good example last year was when we had 55019 visit the line for several weeks. In the beginning, the place was mad with very high loadings and possibly the best diesel gala we had ever seen but by the end of its stay loadings were back to the usual level: the novelty had gone. This does not mean diesels have no future: they are amazingly versatile, can be up and running in minutes and they are often best used on 'shoulder services' - services on less busy days, either the quieter days in the season or on out-of-season services. For our Santa services, we top and tail steam with diesel which, although more expensive to operate than a single locomotive, it saves running around and can also share the burden of operation.

And DMUs? For a long time, we were a DMU-only railway. They are relatively cheap to run, offer great views out of the front and for many of us they take us back to our schooldays. The downside comes to customer appeal - and remember, I'm talking about 'normal people', not us discerning enthusiasts. A surprising number will swear DMUs are what they use on the main line and to others, well, they're not steam trains are they? At present, this places us in a difficult position: we have a lot of DMU vehicles at Wirksworth that are underused and we are trying to contact their owners to work out what they want to do with the units. We don't like seeing them out of action and there will be lines that can make use of a DMU fleet as we did in the past.

This does not mean that DMUs will cease to be a feature of the EVR. Again, they are great for the quieter days and as this line has had a history of hosting DMUs on test from Derby Works, it is only appropriate for DMUs to remain as a part of our fleet. What I want to see is a small but well-loved fleet of DMUs, especially as the original Derby Lightweight unit (https://www.facebook.com/dlpgest1990/?locale=en_GB) is under restoration here, whilst the beautiful unit 'Iris' (M79900) is based here, albeit presently on an extended stay at the GCR.

I hope this helps set out our position. Some of us have lived and breathed this line for three decades and it is always great to receive interest. When we see other lines getting literally dozens of pages of chat, we sometimes feel a little in the shadows but one thing I hope we can offer in return is the ability to share with you our thinking rather than be seen as a mysterious and secretive entity.

Best wishes,

Neil

P.S. on the subject of Diesel traction, please put 25-28 July next year in your diaries for our 14s at 60 Event, celebrating the start of the seventh decade of Teddy Bear operation! (https://www.e-v-r.com/14s-at-60/)

 

[m79900]

In think people are more aware of trains than you give them credit for. Certainly, the younger generation can’t really relate to steam trains, and I have non enthusiast friends/relatives who remember 1st gen DMUs, and prefer to ride on what they knew. Heritage railways are as much about nostalgia as teaching about history, and as the people who can relate to kettles slowly disappear, where would that leave steam locos?

EDIT: What is your definition of a small fleet of DMUs?

 

[Box]

Thanks for that very interesting update Neil

In think people are more aware of trains than you give them credit for. Certainly, the younger generation can’t really relate to steam trains, and I have non enthusiast friends/relatives who remember 1st gen DMUs, and prefer to ride on what they knew. Heritage railways are as much about nostalgia as teaching about history, and as the people who can relate to kettles slowly disappear, where would that leave steam locos?

I think you would have to be at least 65 to have meaningful memories of steam i.e. the “younger generation” is already 81% of the population (Census 2021). But the real point is that to a non-enthusiast a diesel is just another “machine” like a lorry, bus, car, modern train etc. A steam loco looks, smells and sounds utterly different and that is the experience many people are looking for.

 

[nferguso]

In think people are more aware of trains than you give them credit for. Certainly, the younger generation can’t really relate to steam trains, and I have non enthusiast friends/relatives who remember 1st gen DMUs, and prefer to ride on what they knew. Heritage railways are as much about nostalgia as teaching about history, and as the people who can relate to kettles slowly disappear, where would that leave steam locos?

Thanks for that very interesting update Neil



I think you would have to be at least 65 to have meaningful memories of steam i.e. the “younger generation” is already 81% of the population (Census 2021). But the real point is that to a non-enthusiast a diesel is just another “machine” like a lorry, bus, car, modern train etc. A steam loco looks, smells and sounds utterly different and that is the experience many people are looking for.

Thank you both.

There is a paradox here. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that diesels are relatable to many people, but ask a small child what noise a train makes and I can assure you they will say "Choo choo". Take for example the humble BR Mk.1 SK: a friend of mine (not an enthusiast) took one look and said to me "Thats a Harry Potter coach!".

There is a disconnect between the modern trains of today which provide almost an anaesthetised railway experience (No open windows, automatic doors, tinted glass, bright lighting, air conditioning etc.) with the rather more visceral heritage experience. To the general traveller, the two are almost two different means of transport.

Neil

In think people are more aware of trains than you give them credit for. Certainly, the younger generation can’t really relate to steam trains, and I have non enthusiast friends/relatives who remember 1st gen DMUs, and prefer to ride on what they knew. Heritage railways are as much about nostalgia as teaching about history, and as the people who can relate to kettles slowly disappear, where would that leave steam locos?

P.S look at my avatar!

 

[jfollows]

Neil would probably like to electrify the line at 1 ,500v DC given the chance, but that's really not going to attract the punters apart from a strange group of us .......

 

[nferguso]

Neil would probably like to electrify the line at 1 ,500v DC given the chance, but that's really not going to attract the punters apart from a strange group of us .......

It would be great to go out in a flash of glory!

Two examples of how children associate trains with steam. Randomly observed on TV this afternoon.

 

[Iskra]

Thank you for update, the EVR has evolved in a perfect - almost textbook - way from DMU's to Steam. From your brief summary upthread, I would suggest that growth is a great problem to have

I enjoyed my visit to your line last year with a 33 at the helm, and hopefully I'll visit again within the next 12 months.

Might I ask how the joint diesel gala you held with Peak Rail went from your perspective?

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

It would be great to go out in a flash of glory!

Two examples of how children associate trains with steam. Randomly observed on TV this afternoon.

View attachment 143489

View attachment 143490

I can put up with Thomas the Tank but Chuggington with it's impossible curves and track layout is beyond the pale! One of my son's favourite picture books involving a train journey says that the train travels "over the hill" and I have to point out that in reality it would have to go through or round because of the gradients.

I stopped "choo choo train" in it's tracks by teaching him about 3rd rails and pantographs and correcting him and any other members of the family who used the phrase for anything but a steam powered locomotive.

 

[m79900]

The railway appears to be scheduled for the railcar convention next year, is this still the case?

 

[Falcon1200]

Thanks for an interesting and informative update @nferguso. The 14s at 60 Event looks most attractive!

 

[Cowley]

Hello everybody,

As Chairman of EVR, I thought it worth giving you a bit of an update and try and answer some of the observations and questions raised over the past few weeks.

First of all, as a relatively new heritage line, we have had to grow quickly. Our first passenger services, within the precincts of Wirksworth first took place in 2004 and by the spring of 2011 we had extended our operations along the whole extent of our line, approximately nine miles to Duffield where we share a station with East Midlands Railway.

In 2011, turnover was approximately £250k while turnover for the year 2022 was £575k, representing growth of about 7% every year while the economy grew at an annual rate of 1.2%. Putting that in plain terms, we have indeed grown quickly and with it comes a series of challenges, particularly when it comes to the organisation. Even up to around 2021, many of the core functions of the railway were resting on too few pairs of shoulders and there's an interesting study to be had in examining the dynamics of growing heritage railways as they develop from a small team with picks and shovels into a commercially-focused business that must also have a vehicle engineering function, civil engineering, catering, sales, a web presence etc. etc.

There is absolutely no denying that part of the growth has been as a result of moving from DMUs to locomotive-hauled coaching stock (LHCS). in turn, the arrival of LHCS brought forward a growing emphasis on steam rather than diesel haulage. The reasons are straightforward: if you are going to attract growth, then you need to attract the general public, and they have a single basic view: Old trains mean steam trains. Therefore, if you are seeking to attract a general audience, heritage and steam are inextricably linked to one another.

So where do diesels fit into this equation? Naturally, there are people who prefer diesel traction but that is a niche market, namely us - enthusiasts - and a good example last year was when we had 55019 visit the line for several weeks. In the beginning, the place was mad with very high loadings and possibly the best diesel gala we had ever seen but by the end of its stay loadings were back to the usual level: the novelty had gone. This does not mean diesels have no future: they are amazingly versatile, can be up and running in minutes and they are often best used on 'shoulder services' - services on less busy days, either the quieter days in the season or on out-of-season services. For our Santa services, we top and tail steam with diesel which, although more expensive to operate than a single locomotive, it saves running around and can also share the burden of operation.

And DMUs? For a long time, we were a DMU-only railway. They are relatively cheap to run, offer great views out of the front and for many of us they take us back to our schooldays. The downside comes to customer appeal - and remember, I'm talking about 'normal people', not us discerning enthusiasts. A surprising number will swear DMUs are what they use on the main line and to others, well, they're not steam trains are they? At present, this places us in a difficult position: we have a lot of DMU vehicles at Wirksworth that are underused and we are trying to contact their owners to work out what they want to do with the units. We don't like seeing them out of action and there will be lines that can make use of a DMU fleet as we did in the past.

This does not mean that DMUs will cease to be a feature of the EVR. Again, they are great for the quieter days and as this line has had a history of hosting DMUs on test from Derby Works, it is only appropriate for DMUs to remain as a part of our fleet. What I want to see is a small but well-loved fleet of DMUs, especially as the original Derby Lightweight unit (https://www.facebook.com/dlpgest1990/?locale=en_GB) is under restoration here, whilst the beautiful unit 'Iris' (M79900) is based here, albeit presently on an extended stay at the GCR.

I hope this helps set out our position. Some of us have lived and breathed this line for three decades and it is always great to receive interest. When we see other lines getting literally dozens of pages of chat, we sometimes feel a little in the shadows but one thing I hope we can offer in return is the ability to share with you our thinking rather than be seen as a mysterious and secretive entity.

Best wishes,

Neil

P.S. on the subject of Diesel traction, please put 25-28 July next year in your diaries for our 14s at 60 Event, celebrating the start of the seventh decade of Teddy Bear operation! (https://www.e-v-r.com/14s-at-60/)

View attachment 143474

Very interesting Neil thanks for that. I had my first trip on the line a few weeks ago and the Standard 4 tank was in charge of trains that day. Very nice to see an ex LMS coach included in the train as well.

As others have said, keep up the good work!

 

[nferguso]

EDIT: What is your definition of a small fleet of DMUs?

You raise a good question. I can't be specific because that would be for others to decide but I guess there are two factors to consider:

1. We need sufficient so as to prevent our relying upon one or two units. From experience, this leads to our overusing vehicles which is neither good for their availability, nor for the experience of crews.
2. We need to keep the numbers down, so as to ensure those units we have get 'a fair crack at the whip'. Regular use allows systems to be warmed-through, damp blown out of nooks and crannies and, just like cars, use tends to keep the vehicles dry and generally run-in.

So, it's a compromise between the two. What would you reckon?

 

[LowLevel]

An interesting read. From my own experience at another large heritage railway and with mainline charters the running costs of steam in terms of coal and oil as well as the steaming fees tp consider are through the roof right now - can your extra turnover with visitor numbers from using steam keep pace with that?

I know elsewhere some increased usage of DMUs has been more in vogue with the significantly cheaper coats of operation allowing them to complement a reduced but still core steam operation with the heritage diesels still in use to suit.

 

[m79900]

You raise a good question. I can't be specific because that would be for others to decide but I guess there are two factors to consider:

1. We need sufficient so as to prevent our relying upon one or two units. From experience, this leads to our overusing vehicles which is neither good for their availability, nor for the experience of crews.
2. We need to keep the numbers down, so as to ensure those units we have get 'a fair crack at the whip'. Regular use allows systems to be warmed-through, damp blown out of nooks and crannies and, just like cars, use tends to keep the vehicles dry and generally run-in.

So, it's a compromise between the two. What would you reckon?

I’d say, in an ideal world, maybe a couple of 2/3 car sets, and a couple of bubbles? That way, you’d have good flexibility with formations, but if there was a failure, you could still run them. This is me trying to be sensible, as if it was my decision, I’d keep and restore them all! Maybe when the signalling is complete at Shottle, on weekends you could run a loco hauled set alongside a railcar, so people would have the choice of what to travel on. I can see how more than one train running could bring in interest.

 

[Flying Phil]

Thanks for the detailed reply and explaining how the process of building a new heritage Railway is happening. I think your reasoning is spot on.
I also think that people who keep saying Steam Enthusiasts are dying out, are neglecting the fact that there are many thousands now who have only known preservation steam...and are Steam Enthusiasts.

 

[paul1609]

I’d say, in an ideal world, maybe a couple of 2/3 car sets, and a couple of bubbles? That way, you’d have good flexibility with formations, but if there was a failure, you could still run them. This is me trying to be sensible, as if it was my decision, I’d keep and restore them all! Maybe when the signalling is complete at Shottle, on weekends you could run a loco hauled set alongside a railcar, so people would have the choice of what to travel on. I can see how more than one train running could bring in interest.

Looking at the EVRs turnover I'd say a couple of bubble cars or maybe at a push a two car unit and a bubble car. This assumes you've also got other loco hauled stock. The passenger numbers where it makes sense to run the mu's will be quite narrow between don't run at all and go for loco hauled.

 

[m79900]

I’ve seen on Facebook that W51073 is being repainted, so presumably this one will be staying.

 

[DDB]

Thanks to @nferguso for comming on here to answer our questions.
I question I wanted to ask is inspired by another thread in this subforum about the difficulties of linking up with public transport by Hertiage railways and how in isn't worth the effort as nearly everyone comes by car.

When the EVR first started to run through to Duffield it synced up really well with the EMR services from Duffield. Now it doesn't. I was wondering what the reason for the change was and whether the links might be restored? The EMR service was badly effected by COVID cuts loosing its through working to Nottingham which would have reduced its usefulness but it is finally back to normal. I also wondered if the switch away from DMUs and so the need to have time to run around at Duffield might be a factor?

Anyway I miss the link and when through ticketing was introduced there used to be a queue at Derby booking office in the morning for people to buy them. However I accept most people probably come by coach or car to Wirksworth.

 

[Iskra]

I called in today for a quick run behind 31601 and had an enjoyable day. Loadings were reasonable considering the persistent and heavy rain. The non-enthusiasts seemed happy with the locomotive and seemed equally happy with the coaches- the compartment stock seemed especially popular.

 

[nferguso]

Thank you for update, the EVR has evolved in a perfect - almost textbook - way from DMU's to Steam. From your brief summary upthread, I would suggest that growth is a great problem to have

I enjoyed my visit to your line last year with a 33 at the helm, and hopefully I'll visit again within the next 12 months.

Might I ask how the joint diesel gala you held with Peak Rail went from your perspective?

Thanks for that, there are still a ton of challenges and, frankly, one can never take one’s eye off the ball but the numbers are encouraging.

Regarding the joint gala with Peak Rail, it was a great success. For us, we were stymied by the landslip which meant we couldn’t run through to Duffield, thus preventing the option of rail travel between the two lines but I hope next year we can run it again and see if we can manage a circular ticket with EMR and the vintage bus.
Neil

I’d say, in an ideal world, maybe a couple of 2/3 car sets, and a couple of bubbles? That way, you’d have good flexibility with formations, but if there was a failure, you could still run them. This is me trying to be sensible, as if it was my decision, I’d keep and restore them all! Maybe when the signalling is complete at Shottle, on weekends you could run a loco hauled set alongside a railcar, so people would have the choice of what to travel on. I can see how more than one train running could bring in interest.

Looking at the EVRs turnover I'd say a couple of bubble cars or maybe at a push a two car unit and a bubble car. This assumes you've also got other loco hauled stock. The passenger numbers where it makes sense to run the mu's will be quite narrow between don't run at all and go for loco hauled.

Welcome to my world! Finding the right answer is a difficult task and if one then adds personalities and obligations, then finding the ‘right’ number is a pretty challenging task.

Certainly there is one thing I want to witness and that it two Derby Lightweights crossing at Shottle. That keeps me motivated.

Neil

Thanks for the detailed reply and explaining how the process of building a new heritage Railway is happening. I think your reasoning is spot on.
I also think that people who keep saying Steam Enthusiasts are dying out, are neglecting the fact that there are many thousands now who have only known preservation steam...and are Steam Enthusiasts.

I agree. Go back 40 years and most people at heritage railways had some memory of steam, but not now. If you think about a ‘couple with small children’. The parents would have been born in the 1980s or early 90s (i.e. a couple of years ago to us of a certain age) with children born comfortably this side of 2010. There is zero memory of British Railways steam, so preserved steam is perceived as a ‘Heritage’ experience alongside vintage cars, stately homes and living museums. That’s our target demographic.

 

[Iskra]

Thanks for that, there are still a ton of challenges and, frankly, one can never take one’s eye off the ball but the numbers are encouraging.

Regarding the joint gala with Peak Rail, it was a great success. For us, we were stymied by the landslip which meant we couldn’t run through to Duffield, thus preventing the option of rail travel between the two lines but I hope next year we can run it again and see if we can manage a circular ticket with EMR and the vintage bus.
Neil

Thank you for the response!

Have you considered a permanent circular ticket that links both lines, EMR and the Wirksworth-Matlock service bus. I appreciate it is probably steeped in complexity dealing with three other organisations but it would seem a great 'day out' circuit and would help both railways increase visitors and be more visible. I drove past Peak Rail on the way to Wirksworth today (and the Midland Railway on the way back), I'd have called in at Peak Rail if there was a joint ticket, but I didn't want to pay for a whole new ticket so swerved it.

 

[nferguso]

Thanks to @nferguso for comming on here to answer our questions.
I question I wanted to ask is inspired by another thread in this subforum about the difficulties of linking up with public transport by Hertiage railways and how in isn't worth the effort as nearly everyone comes by car.

When the EVR first started to run through to Duffield it synced up really well with the EMR services from Duffield. Now it doesn't. I was wondering what the reason for the change was and whether the links might be restored? The EMR service was badly effected by COVID cuts loosing its through working to Nottingham which would have reduced its usefulness but it is finally back to normal. I also wondered if the switch away from DMUs and so the need to have time to run around at Duffield might be a factor?

Anyway I miss the link and when through ticketing was introduced there used to be a queue at Derby booking office in the morning for people to buy them. However I accept most people probably come by coach or car to Wirksworth.

Good question. I think we have lost our mojo a bit with respect to mainline connections but there were mitigating factors. For our core service pattern (sounds pretentious, but keep with me), we reduced from four to three round trips and, in turn, extended both the journey time and the turnaround time at each end. The reduction in service was a no-messing prevention of running fresh air (last train of the day blues), while the extended running and turnaround times were a combination of a move to locomotive haulage (DMUs are so darned convenient!) time to take on water and, with an increasing move towards dining services, the desire to give diners a little more time. Add to that general post-pandemic changes to the Matlock Service (EMR were messed-around horribly with their vehicle allocations and were forced to change their timetables) and gradually our connections fell into the ‘fir where it touches’ pattern.

I want to see how we can change this. It is still technically possible to purchase a through ticket to Wirksworth but I can’t go charging up to the TOCs and demand they start promoting our tickets. It will be a slow job but it’s worth the effort.

Neil

 

[alistairlees]

Assuming the circular ticket would allow a journey (starting at any point) as follows:
1. Rowsley to Matlock (Peak Rail)for vintage / special bus
2. Matlock to Duffield (EMR)
3. Duffield to Wirksworth (EVR)
4. Wirksworth to Matlock (service bus or vintage / special bus)
5. Matlock to Rowsley (Peak Rail)

and you added up the component parts of that:

1 + 5: Peak Rail Return = £15.00
2. EMR Off-Peak Day Single = £5.80
3. EVR Single = £11.00
4. Bus = £2.00 for service bus, more for vintage / special bus

Then you have a minimum base price of £33.80 (more if a vintage bus is used). I don't know if that's what people would pay, or if it's a little too high (I was expecting it to add up to more). But I expect that people have less than that in mind, which would need each party to take a cut in its share of each ticket, in return for (hopefully) more tickets being sold offsetting that. There is also the time / cost of setting up and maintaining such agreements, which does take more time and effort than people often realise.

What would you pay @Iskra ?

 

[nferguso]

Thank you for the response!

Have you considered a permanent circular ticket that links both lines, EMR and the Wirksworth-Matlock service bus. I appreciate it is probably steeped in complexity dealing with three other organisations but it would seem a great 'day out' circuit and would help both railways increase visitors and be more visible. I drove past Peak Rail on the way to Wirksworth today (and the Midland Railway on the way back), I'd have called in at Peak Rail if there was a joint ticket, but I didn't want to pay for a whole new ticket so swerved it.

Assuming the circular ticket would allow a journey (starting at any point) as follows:
1. Rowsley to Matlock (Peak Rail)for vintage / special bus
2. Matlock to Duffield (EMR)
3. Duffield to Wirksworth (EVR)
4. Wirksworth to Matlock (service bus or vintage / special bus)
5. Matlock to Rowsley (Peak Rail)

and you added up the component parts of that:

1 + 5: Peak Rail Return = £15.00
2. EMR Off-Peak Day Single = £5.80
3. EVR Single = £11.00
4. Bus = £2.00 for service bus, more for vintage / special bus

Then you have a minimum base price of £33.80 (more if a vintage bus is used). I don't know if that's what people would pay, or if it's a little too high (I was expecting it to add up to more). But I expect that people have less than that in mind, which would need each party to take a cut in its share of each ticket, in return for (hopefully) more tickets being sold offsetting that. There is also the time / cost of setting up and maintaining such agreements, which does take more time and effort than people often realise.

What would you pay @Iskra ?

And here’s the problem. It gets messy in so many ways: splitting the revenue, dealing with multiple parties (remember: for the TOC it’ll just be a pain for them) and making sure everybody gets a decent deal. It’s very difficult to square the circle.

Neil

 

[Iskra]

Assuming the circular ticket would allow a journey (starting at any point) as follows:
1. Rowsley to Matlock (Peak Rail)for vintage / special bus
2. Matlock to Duffield (EMR)
3. Duffield to Wirksworth (EVR)
4. Wirksworth to Matlock (service bus or vintage / special bus)
5. Matlock to Rowsley (Peak Rail)

and you added up the component parts of that:

1 + 5: Peak Rail Return = £15.00
2. EMR Off-Peak Day Single = £5.80
3. EVR Single = £11.00
4. Bus = £2.00 for service bus, more for vintage / special bus

Then you have a minimum base price of £33.80 (more if a vintage bus is used). I don't know if that's what people would pay, or if it's a little too high (I was expecting it to add up to more). But I expect that people have less than that in mind, which would need each party to take a cut in its share of each ticket, in return for (hopefully) more tickets being sold offsetting that. There is also the time / cost of setting up and maintaining such agreements, which does take more time and effort than people often realise.

What would you pay @Iskra ?

Before your post, I was thinking around £30 would be a fair price. I’m sure I could stretch to £33.80. You may even be able to go beyond £33.80 if the ticket allows more flexibility than the singles you quoted- ie you can do multiple journeys on each section where time permits, in which case I think you can easily push to £40.

£33.80-£40 for a full day’s entertainment is a steal. People pay £40 for 90 minutes at my football club, or you’re looking at three figures on a railtour for a similar length day.

 

[m79900]

A permanent vintage bus service opertated daily by the railway could be handy. If you acquired a couple of 60s/70s buses, like a VR or a National, you could do a parallel service to Duffield, a route linking to Peak Rail at Matlock, or even one to the tramway at Crich. If the money was available, that could be interesting.

 

[Iskra]

A permanent vintage bus service opertated daily by the railway could be handy. If you acquired a couple of 60s/70s buses, like a VR or a National, you could do a parallel service to Duffield, a route linking to Peak Rail at Matlock, or even one to the tramway at Crich. If the money was available, that could be interesting.

Personally, I don’t see the point in operating vintage buses at extra cost when service buses already exist that can run more frequently and reliably. To me it’s just an unnecessary extra cost and complication for a less useable service.

 

[nferguso]

In think people are more aware of trains than you give them credit for. Certainly, the younger generation can’t really relate to steam trains, and I have non enthusiast friends/relatives who remember 1st gen DMUs, and prefer to ride on what they knew. Heritage railways are as much about nostalgia as teaching about history, and as the people who can relate to kettles slowly disappear, where would that leave steam locos?

EDIT: What is your definition of a small fleet of DMUs?

Before your post, I was thinking around £30 would be a fair price. I’m sure I could stretch to £33.80. You may even be able to go beyond £33.80 if the ticket allows more flexibility than the singles you quoted- ie you can do multiple journeys on each section where time permits, in which case I think you can easily push to £40.

£33.80-£40 for a full day’s entertainment is a steal. People pay £40 for 90 minutes at my football club, or you’re looking at three figures on a railtour for a similar length day.

Personally, I don’t see the point in operating vintage buses at extra cost when service buses already exist that can run more frequently and reliably. To me it’s just an unnecessary extra cost and complication for a less useable service.

Al this comes down to management bandwidth. Certainly. I don't see running buses as well as rail vehicles as a practical proposition, while the combined ticket potentially has legs but as I said earlier, organising it will be quite problematic. I'll just never say never.

 

[Russel]

Before your post, I was thinking around £30 would be a fair price. I’m sure I could stretch to £33.80. You may even be able to go beyond £33.80 if the ticket allows more flexibility than the singles you quoted- ie you can do multiple journeys on each section where time permits, in which case I think you can easily push to £40.

£33.80-£40 for a full day’s entertainment is a steal. People pay £40 for 90 minutes at my football club, or you’re looking at three figures on a railtour for a similar length day.

In reality, it's only going to appeal to a small number of enthusiasts, so is it really worth the effort?