ECML Disruption - Saturday 27th December

[amcluesent]

When planning engineering work...

Yep, would have been a robust plan to have southbound trains running to Finsbury Park for drop-off only and northbound pax take additional services from Liverpool Street via Cambridge to Peterborough to connect to northbound EC services

 

[TUC]

Due to Engineering work on the Midland Main Line and West Coast Main Line, East Coast customers MAY NOT use East Midlands Trains between Sheffield and London St Pancras or Virgin Trains between London and Scotland. East Coast Tickets are NOT VALID on any services to or from London St Pancras or London Euston.

Unless they're advance tickets, and as long as passengers are travelling via permitted routes, EMT and Virgin can't stop the tickets being valid, engineering work or not.
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It might also be something to do with a one hour gap in services to Moorgate which means they cant get incoming pax cross platform out of the Station.

10.24 finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
10.39 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 9 mins late
10.54 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 31 mins late (now shown as "delayed)
11.09 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
11.24 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
11.39 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 6 mins late

So roughly a one hour gap in services from Finsbury Park to Moorgate between 10.48 and 11.45

Surely part of the contingency planning for the work over-running, or at the very least in the planning once the problem became apparent, should have been to contact all relevant Great Northern staff so as to try and get as many staff in as possible today in order to try and run additional services, or at least have the full timetable operating?
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Its also another one of the problems associated with using contractors to carry out work if the contractor has failed to provide enough staff as some will most probably be agency staff who might have failed to turn up or gone on a better paid job instead leaving planned jobs short of staff to carry out the work.

Using contractors should help in this situation, if the contract has been structured right so that there are contractual penalties for failure to complete work on time. In BR days, they would have just kept the full funding for the project no matter how big a cock up they had made.

 

[nicobobinus]

For those people waiting at Finsbury Park, Archway (Northern Line) and Stamford Hill (Greater Anglia) are both 30 minutes walk away, which might be quicker than standing in a queue for a bus or a tube!

Manor House or Arsenal are about 10 minutes walk from Finsbury Park. The Piccadilly Line is running fine in itself.

I was intending to travel to Cambridge this afternoon, think I'll go via Tottenham Hale instead!

 

[TUC]

The National Rail website now states at: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/88857.aspx that 'passengers are not able to use East Midlands Trains services between Sheffield and London St Pancras International' i.e. rather than the earler statement that was ambigious about the position of passengers with non-Advance tickets for East Coast destinations, it now appears to be saying that even 'any permitted' tickets are not valid.

Will someone please explain the basics of the routing guide to NRE and EMT so they stop illegally excluding validity for passengers travelling via permitted routes?

 

[Andyh82]

The 1016 from Peterborough to Finsbury Park left 10 late, but became 70 late at Potters Bar and is now 110 late approaching Finsbury Park

The 0813 from Harrogate to Finsbury Park ran pretty much on time, became 28 late at Peterborough and terminated at Finsbury park 115 late

Just two examples of the extreme delays waiting for a platform at the temporary terminus.

 

[TUC]

The Daily Mirror thinks that GNER still operate the East Coast route! (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kings-cross-train-cancellations-more-4879092 -see 2nd picture down and caption)

 

[Starmill]

If Leeds to London is a permitted route via Sheffield and Leicester, and the ticket is route 'Any Permitted' there is no way EMT can reject that ticket.

Put this another way, if EMT agree that Sheffield - London Terminals is valid, but Leeds - London Terminals is not, what about Moorthorpe - London Terminals? Assuming all are route Any Permitted.

 

[crewmeal]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2888326/Thousands-caught-Christmas-travel-misery-Finsbury-Park-station-closed-overcrowding-services-nearby-King-s-Cross-cancelled.html

Same time same place next year?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Using contractors should help in this situation, if the contract has been structured right so that there are contractual penalties for failure to complete work on time. In BR days, they would have just kept the full funding for the project no matter how big a cock up they had made.

I suspect the passenger being right royally frigged around today particularly cares whether a subbie gets paid or screwed for non performance!

 

[21C101]

The 1016 from Peterborough to Finsbury Park left 10 late, but became 70 late at Potters Bar and is now 110 late approaching Finsbury Park

I dedicate this to the good folk on the 10.16 from Peterborough to Finsbury Park

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB86UzewPdo

 

[TUC]

I suspect the passenger being right royally frigged around today particularly cares whether a subbie gets paid or screwed for non performance!

No, but at least it means that the company responsible is penalised.

 

[johntea]

I wouldn't like to be the EMT guard trying to dispute ticket validity with a passenger who is already about to explode due to the stress of having to recalculate their journey

 

[Unixman]

I wouldn't like to be the EMT guard trying to dispute ticket validity with a passenger who is already about to explode due to the stress of having to recalculate their journey

I would have thought that someone shoves a rocket up EMT's arse and get them to help out as much as they can.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

If Leeds to London is a permitted route via Sheffield and Leicester, and the ticket is route 'Any Permitted' there is no way EMT can reject that ticket.

Surely they can, by introducing boarding controls, as are put in place on Friday evenings at Euston - no reservation on this service = no travel.

I'm not saying that I agree, or that it is good practice, or that they would succeed deflecting a thousand strong baying mob, but they can probably do it legally speaking.

Surely its time for all ticket restrictions to be lifted, get where you're going as best you can by whatever route, here is a list of services running. And if a few enthusiasts manage a convoluted route at a bargain price, you know what, it doesn't actually matter looking at the bigger picture.

 

[TUC]

EMT have just advised me on Twitter that East Coast passengers with Any Permitted tickets can travel with hem. It's only East Coast-specific tickets which are not being accepted-which is different to what NRE are stating on their website.

 

[Mag_seven]

It's only East Coast-specific tickets which are not being accepted-which is different to what NRE are stating on their website.

I hope East Coast (or when they take over Virgin) remember that next time there is disruption on the MML.

 

[Tom B]

Currently stuck just south of Ally Pally for about 40 mins. Apparently third in a queue. Very poor - could have at least stopped at Ally Pally to allow passengers to alight.

 

[samuelmorris]

Here's one example I spotted - looks like it's taking quite a long time to turn them round at Finsbury Park, given the station probably isn't really cut out for that sort of thing!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y61968/2014/12/27/advanced

Is Alexandra Palace even large enough to disembark a full-size East Coast train Tom?

 

[Class 170101]

Well the signalling has now fallen over at Edale, between Stockport and Sheffield, so it will be fun for WCML passengers trying to reach London via Sheffield.

 

[TUC]

As ever, one of the basic problems seems to be a lack of staff on the ground at Finsbury Park to communicate what is going on, especially for those outside the station. At the very least, why don't the relevant TOCs get some staff down to Finsbury Park to give additional support? It's not difficult.

 

[ainsworth74]

Seeing as Kings Cross is closed what are the staff that were rostered to work there today doing? Obviously some will still be needed there to deal with anyone that turns up (to buy tickets for example) but what about the rest of them?

 

[Class 170101]

Good luck trying to get any staff NOT on call to attend today.

 

[alanf]

I wont pretend i know the layout down there so dont shoot me but would it not be possible to slip a couple of 125 sets into Liverpool Street

 

[scarby]

One way literally around this in either direction to those in the know, although somewhat slow, would be Liverpool Street-Cambridge-Peterborough or vice versa, wouldn't it?

Presumably his has not been publicly advised to avoid hundreds of people trying to pile on hourly DMUs between Cambridge and Peterborough?

 

[matacaster]

Can anyone remember if Robin Gisby was in charge when the Leeds First fiasco happened?

A Railtrack spokesman said on either Look North or Calendar that its full implementation was delayed a few days. 12 months later it was fully opened, but with reduced speeds on approach as someone fouled up on signal placement.

 

[Andyh82]

Here's one example I spotted - looks like it's taking quite a long time to turn them round at Finsbury Park, given the station probably isn't really cut out for that sort of thing!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y61968/2014/12/27/advanced

Is Alexandra Palace even large enough to disembark a full-size East Coast train Tom?

The 1230 to Edinburgh has just set off 151 mins late.

Looks like a complete fiasco whether you are on a train or not, I bet train crews turning up don't know what is going on either, that's if even they can get into the station.

East Coast are only tweeting two types of standard messages, which are causing people to get even more annoyed.

One being that they are running a revised service with trains terminating at Finsbury Park, to which umpteen people rage back at saying that they can't get into said station either on foot or by train.

The other one being that if they are delayed by over 30 mins they can claim delay repay, to which everyone rages back how they demand compensation because they've just spent hours stood in the cold, stood in a subway, wedged on a stationary train under someone's armpit etc etc.

 

[Class 170101]

I wont pretend i know the layout down there so dont shoot me but would it not be possible to slip a couple of 125 sets into Liverpool Street

There is normally no space at Liverpool Street Station to accomodate extra services. Diverting c2c there on Saturdays usually requires a re-write of the plaforms at Liverpool Street to make it work.

This weekend would be even more interesting as GE routes themselves are re-timed for two track working between Liverpool Street and Shenfield as noted above this is likely to be altering the platform working even further.

 

[Retorus]

Absolutely no information or assistance being offered to passengers at Peterborough, a fair few getting rather annoyed now!

 

[Class 170101]

Manor House or Arsenal are about 10 minutes walk from Finsbury Park. The Piccadilly Line is running fine in itself.

I was intending to travel to Cambridge this afternoon, think I'll go via Tottenham Hale instead!

I wouldn't recommend Arsenal. Its closed today (and probably tomorrow too) for station works.

 

[Tomnick]

I hope East Coast (or when they take over Virgin) remember that next time there is disruption on the MML.

Probably not the most productive approach. I think it's very sensible to discourage folk from shifting en masse to the Midland, which will already be under a lot of pressure from passengers displaced from the WCML. After all, East Coast are still managing to shift a fair number of people, even if it's a bit chaotic.