ECML semi fast service

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pt_mad

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I heard some time ago there were plans to run class 90s in conjunction with DVTs to provide semi fast services to York and/or maybe Leeds.

Is this still planned?
 
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sprinterguy

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The semi-fast services to York are already in operation, running bi-hourly in alternate slots to the two hourly Newark stoppers which were originally intended to run to Lincoln.

The idea to use class 90s and mark 3s, and later the five 180s that are now destined for use with FGW, was dropped when East Coast decided they could run these services with the existing fleet (Although they have gained the odd HST here and there over the last couple of years since the idea was first mooted).
 

34D

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I heard some time ago there were plans to run class 90s in conjunction with DVTs to provide semi fast services to York and/or maybe Leeds.

Is this still planned?

Apparently 90s aren't fast enough (lower top speed, yet better acceleration).
 

Johnny Lewis

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I believe EC still plan to extend the remaining Kings X - Newark services to run to / from York as well, now that plans to serve Lincoln every 2 hours have been dropped. Gives a good relief service for the hourly non-stop services between Kings X and York, and usually the cheaper advance tickets are to be found in abundance on these trains. (AND, according to a different thread on here, the provision of First Class complimentary items is also somewhat enhanced!)
 

LE Greys

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Apparently 90s aren't fast enough (lower top speed, yet better acceleration).

Yes and no. The extra acceleration means that a 90 can keep to a 225 schedule on a semi-fast, but not if one ends up on a major express with longer non-stop sections. Presumably, they would be worried if a 90 has to run VICE a 91 (although I like the idea of having a V2-equivalent around, chances are that there would be if they could fill in on freight and parcels).

Indeed. I caught one back to London back in September.

I was on one today. Virtually had coach B to myself, and couldn't have been more than 100 people when I walked through to the buffet. Mind you, it was the 09:10 ex-Cross.
 

142094

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Until these services started running, it would be very uncommon to see an EC service in a bay at York. Still looks strange to me now.
 

IanXC

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Until these services started running, it would be very uncommon to see an EC service in a bay at York. Still looks strange to me now.

Absolutely! There's still a little flash of 'where the heck am I?' When I get off one at York!

 

DarloRich

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I understand that a 90 can keep up with a 91 on a stopping service but not a fast service.

I often use the 1601 from York to Kings Cross and it can be lightly loaded. THere is always plenty of space and lots of cheap tickets.

As has been said it is odd to board one from the Leeds bay platform at York. a 91/mkiv set only just fits!
 

tbtc

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I believe EC still plan to extend the remaining Kings X - Newark services to run to / from York as well, now that plans to serve Lincoln every 2 hours have been dropped. Gives a good relief service for the hourly non-stop services between Kings X and York, and usually the cheaper advance tickets are to be found in abundance on these trains. (AND, according to a different thread on here, the provision of First Class complimentary items is also somewhat enhanced!)

It would also allow XC to divert more services via Leeds (instead of Doncaster), if East Coast are providing an hourly Doncaster - York service.

I understand that a 90 can keep up with a 91 on a stopping service but not a fast service

That's my understanding too, but it would rely on the "slow" services being carefully managed so they don't interwork with the "fast" ones. At the moment East Coast could put any train on any duty at KX in times of disruption (with the obvious proviso that a 225 couldn't do the final bit of the run to Hull/ Harrogate/ Aberdeen/ Inverness)
 

ashworth

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Hopefully if the Kings Cross - Newark services are extended to York there will be a standard stopping pattern every hour. This will then give, in addition to extra services between London and Doncaster/York an hourly local service for stations between Peterborough and Doncaster. Peterborough-Grantham-Newark-Retford-Doncaster needs an hourly local service just like Leicester-Market Harborough-Kettering-Wellingborough-Bedford on the MML. The between Retford and Newark in the past was always very poor.
 

tbtc

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Hopefully if the Kings Cross - Newark services are extended to York there will be a standard stopping pattern every hour. This will then give, in addition to extra services between London and Doncaster/York an hourly local service for stations between Peterborough and Doncaster. Peterborough-Grantham-Newark-Retford-Doncaster needs an hourly local service just like Leicester-Market Harborough-Kettering-Wellingborough-Bedford on the MML. The between Retford and Newark in the past was always very poor.

Before Eureka the service patterns were even worse, quite random - things are starting to become ordered.

Ideally I'd have two "slow" services on the ECML each hour (including the current York services co-ordinated with the Hull Trains services and maybe the Grand Central ones), but that would require co-operation so won't happen!
 

philjo

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Ideally one of the stopper services would also be extended to Newcastle in alternate hours.
Stations such as Grantham & Stevenage (as one of the Leeds trains call there each hour) lost a direct service to Darlington, Durham & Newcastle.
The connections at York are tight (or a 2 hour wait at York southbound if you miss the stopper - I prefer to use those that change onto the Newark stopper) & as you have to use 2 trains the lower band for advance tickets is often not available for a through ticket without splitting somewhere.
 

tbtc

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Ideally one of the stopper services would also be extended to Newcastle in alternate hours.
Stations such as Grantham & Stevenage (as one of the Leeds trains call there each hour) lost a direct service to Darlington, Durham & Newcastle.
The connections at York are tight (or a 2 hour wait at York southbound if you miss the stopper - I prefer to use those that change onto the Newark stopper) & as you have to use 2 trains the lower band for advance tickets is often not available for a through ticket without splitting somewhere.

There are already five trains most hours between York and Newcastle (with more to come when TPE North electrification happens?)
 

Martin222002

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It would also allow XC to divert more services via Leeds (instead of Doncaster), if East Coast are providing an hourly Doncaster - York service.
Actually XC are against the plans to extend the current Newark terminators to York, as they conflict with XCs plans for speeding up the northbound Southampton/Reading-Newcastle via Doncaster services. The northbound service is currently around 20 minutes longer to Newcastle than the southbound service from Newcastle, and XC want to reduce this difference in journey time.

Also Arriva related, extending the Newark terminator to York would also conflict with the services which Alliance Rail want to run.
 

David

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No idea why there is a time difference, because they both go via Doncaster anyway.

Also, don't XC wan't to near enough abandon Doncaster by running most, if not all their service via Leeds?
 

calc7

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I used to do Leamington Spa to York very regularly on XC. My impressions as to why the northbound journey was so much longer than the southbound one was the 15-minute turnaround northbound at BHM to adhere to the clockface service going upto Derby, as well as often an 8-minute wait at Sheffield. It was always quite quick off the mark at Doncaster.
 

tbtc

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Actually XC are against the plans to extend the current Newark terminators to York, as they conflict with XCs plans for speeding up the northbound Southampton/Reading-Newcastle via Doncaster services. The northbound service is currently around 20 minutes longer to Newcastle than the southbound service from Newcastle, and XC want to reduce this difference in journey time.

Also Arriva related, extending the Newark terminator to York would also conflict with the services which Alliance Rail want to run.

No idea why there is a time difference, because they both go via Doncaster anyway.

Also, don't XC wan't to near enough abandon Doncaster by running most, if not all their service via Leeds?

Aye, my understanding was that they wanted more Leeds paths (and were happy to abandon Donny on most services).

The additional TPE services from York to Leeds (and Manchester etc) may scupper plans for XC to fit more trains between York and Leeds though.
 

D6975

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Until these services started running, it would be very uncommon to see an EC service in a bay at York. Still looks strange to me now.

I had the same reaction when I first saw a 91 set in one of the North side bays at Leeds. Too used to seeing DMUs on Bradford and Harrogate locals over there many moons ago.
 
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