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ECML Significant Disruption

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amcluesent

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Why is there such disruption for a person under train? I thought BTP sought to get things sorted in 2 hours or less. Surely this can be reduced to 60 mins or less? Just a quick look at the CCTV would be enough to eliminate foul play.
 
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Aictos

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Why is there such disruption for a person under train? I thought BTP sought to get things sorted in 2 hours or less. Surely this can be reduced to 60 mins or less? Just a quick look at the CCTV would be enough to eliminate foul play.

But it's not though, the BTP have to carry out a full investigation to rule out any possibilities, I'm sure the longer serving rail staff here can provide more detail.

It's not as simple as just getting the undertakers in to remove the body.
 

silentone

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It's thought the person was not at Grantham station although that's yet to be confirmed. Their was also believed to be suspicious circumstances to the incident, although there is thought to be a witness.

Normally the BTP get this sorted or allow the line to partly re-open, with each incident the train and area around it become the crime scene. If there was foul play you'd want to make sure everything was done to find out what when on.

I'm not sure this morning's incident was suicide, I'm sure I read it was just an unfortunate incident.
 

Ferret

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We need a physical barrier between the platform and platform edge to prevent the needless killing of people on our national rail network. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths the rail authorities go to to stop trespassing when at stations like Grantham (and many more I suspect) have the main through line that doubles as a platform line. I don't know where exactly this fatality occurred, but there is a nasty bend entering the station on the up side.

I don't know any more details of this particular accident, but how many people do you see with iPods and cell phones stuck in their ears thus preventing them hearing the announcements that 'please stand clear of Platform X - fast train approaching.

Maybe some sort of flashing lights might work, but please, lets keep the travelling public and railway staff safe!

Just how far do you take the Health and Safety BS though?! I've been at Plymouth station listening to endless announcements about holding the railing when using stairs etc etc - I mean FFS, when will we realise that we can't and should even try to legislate for abject stupidity. Frankly, all that was missing down at Plymouth was an announcement in the toilets giving advice on how to wipe one's backside safely! I just give up.

 

Captain Chaos

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We need a physical barrier between the platform and platform edge to prevent the needless killing of people on our national rail network. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths the rail authorities go to to stop trespassing when at stations like Grantham (and many more I suspect) have the main through line that doubles as a platform line. I don't know where exactly this fatality occurred, but there is a nasty bend entering the station on the up side.

I don't know any more details of this particular accident, but how many people do you see with iPods and cell phones stuck in their ears thus preventing them hearing the announcements that 'please stand clear of Platform X - fast train approaching.

Maybe some sort of flashing lights might work, but please, lets keep the travelling public and railway staff safe!

If people decide to ignore warning signs and announcements regarding safety on the platform then that is their stupid fault. Quite honestly if people cannot behave responsibly and safely in a railway station then they shouldn't be there at all. In the end you can do anything you like to try and prevent things from occuring. Fact is that accidents happen and if someone is intent on killing themselves by proxy of a train then they are going to do it. If someone is desperate enough to do something they will always find a way of doing it.

The H&S announcements at stations are plentiful and I would be quite surprised if there is anyone who has ever used a railway station who hasn't heard one. Sadly H&S legislation cannot legislate against stupidity.
 

w1bbl3

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yeah, it sounds like they are lot higher quality:roll:
I'm sorry, but that is rubbish. You build in resiliance in computing though redundancy, not higher spec.

Coming from an industrial process control environment you build resilience by qualification of hardware / software to reduce quality related failures. The cheap hardware / throw it away approach is atypical of environments run by technicians that do not understand proper system qualification including entry to service qualification. The downtime minutes of such an approach should exceed those of properly qualified hardware assuming appropriate service spares are held....

A proper introduction to service qualification process should identify likely failure modes and list remediation steps in the event of failure. All failure modes should have the probability determined and potential cost assigned.

It sounds me as if NR have decided that pre-imaged hard disks are not service spares which is a surprise considering that industrial hard disks cost peanuts in the scheme of things. The fact that apparently an inexpensive industrial PSU and HD can rack up what I'd imagine to be £500k's+ of delay minutes suggests the balance is somewhat wrong.
 

attics26

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1655 ex Newcastle held at Darlington for 70 mins, not sure why we couldn't at least have gone fwd to York... Still storming south now, shame it's free though as I'm low on vouchers...!

EC Control certainly didn't seem like they were very helpful, traincrew was mystified at them - "always useless"

on this occasion I must (even tho it hurts) point out EC control had no choice as Network Rail decided all train heading towards Grantham would be held at the next station ........ obviously we on the platform thought this was somewhat over the top but after Saturdays stranding of trains it was I suppose understandable.
 

Geezertronic

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Regarding the fatality, the short headline on the BBC app on my iPhone said there had been a collision but when I clicked on the article and read it, it was indeed a person hit by train. Some collision that...
 

HST Power

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Regarding the fatality, the short headline on the BBC app on my iPhone said there had been a collision but when I clicked on the article and read it, it was indeed a person hit by train. Some collision that...

It was indeed. Other operators are accepting East Coast tickets heading up North.
 

philjo

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I was at Kings Cross at 17:45 last night - every EC departure on the boards said delayed.
FCC were all on time at that point, but my service was terminated at Hitchin due to a major signal failure at Letchworth causing 20 minute delays between Hitchin & Royston & congestion on the line in the Letchworth area. The next Cambridge stopping service was running through but with delays.
During the 20 minutes waiting at Hitchin for this next service the only other trains moving through Hitchin were 1 FCC 12-car service northbound towards Peterborough & 2 FCC southbound services from Peterborough - all of which called at Hitchin.
Nothing else at all, nothing to/from Cambridge due to the problem at Letchworth.

Whilst at KX they were announcing that anyone for Leeds should use the 18:15 EMT departure from St Pancras.
 

stut

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...and now, a bridge strike at Yaxley. Nothing currently moving northbound into PBO (the 10:04 FCC arrival was the last). The ECML isn't having much luck this week!
 

blacknight

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on this occasion I must (even tho it hurts) point out EC control had no choice as Network Rail decided all train heading towards Grantham would be held at the next station ........ obviously we on the platform thought this was somewhat over the top but after Saturdays stranding of trains it was I suppose understandable.

Surely someone at NR/EC could have had the forethought that once they started moving passengers by road from Grantham to Newark might have been an idea to actually run a train into Newark to turn around to take stranded passengers north rather than terminating services at Doncaster.
 

Geezertronic

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...and now, a bridge strike at Yaxley. Nothing currently moving northbound into PBO (the 10:04 FCC arrival was the last). The ECML isn't having much luck this week!

Much like the WCML, nothing happens for a while and then lots within a short period of time :(
 

stut

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...and now moving again. Kudos to NR for carrying out the inspection so quickly.
 

philjo

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EC website now reporting 25 minute delays due to OHLE problems between Northallerton & York.
 
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1655 ex Newcastle held at Darlington for 70 mins, not sure why we couldn't at least have gone fwd to York

...and it doesn't occur to you that, had you gone forward to York, you might be blocking the only vacant platform available to through services not affected by the incident. Contrary to popular belief, the people running the railway are not idiots <(
 

Max

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...and it doesn't occur to you that, had you gone forward to York, you might be blocking the only vacant platform available to through services not affected by the incident. Contrary to popular belief, the people running the railway are not idiots <(

With all due respect, the train probably could have been moved forward to York and then shunted, as happened yesterday afternoon with a couple of trains at Donny.
 

87015

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...and it doesn't occur to you that, had you gone forward to York, you might be blocking the only vacant platform available to through services not affected by the incident. Contrary to popular belief, the people running the railway are not idiots <(

CCF suggests otherwise, took the liberty of having a play 'off patch' today. One Mk4 in a platform was all EC had there leaving plenty space to bring in a few, turf out and shunt if required. At least its a bit nearer where you want to be so quicker when it starts up again, one was held at Newcastle, two hours away from the incident. Whats the harm in getting people south, especially as they seemed to be turning very little round and kicking it back north.

Do wonder what the point in having thunderbirds is when they are left to sit in a siding during such events, might be slower to drag round via Lincoln but at least its on the move, add a couple of HSTs in the mix aswell and no sign of anything even thinking about going round, do the EC crews still sign it?
 
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CCF suggests otherwise, took the liberty of having a play 'off patch' today. One Mk4 in a platform was all EC had there leaving plenty space to bring in a few, turf out and shunt if required. At least its a bit nearer where you want to be so quicker when it starts up again, one was held at Newcastle, two hours away from the incident. Whats the harm in getting people south, especially as they seemed to be turning very little round and kicking it back north.

But the 1655 was only 70' late into Kings Cross, so by the standards of the day, the passengers got off lightly. Had they been 'turfed out' at York, those wishing to go further South (the majority, I suspect), would then be looking to go across to Leeds and Sheffield on a packed Voyager (or worse).
In any event, the decision on where to hold trains would be made by the SSM in consultation with the Network Rail TRC who, supposedly, can see the bigger picture, more so than someone sat on a train at Darlington. The TOC's views on the matter would come a poor third. And remember at York you need to keep either platform 5 or '3 and 4' free to continue to run to Scarborough.

Do wonder what the point in having thunderbirds is when they are left to sit in a siding during such events, might be slower to drag round via Lincoln but at least its on the move, add a couple of HSTs in the mix aswell and no sign of anything even thinking about going round, do the EC crews still sign it?
I believe only the Doncaster based drivers sign via Gainsborough and Sleaford, so the chances of even one of them being in the right place on the day is negligible.
 

TheBigD

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Do wonder what the point in having thunderbirds is when they are left to sit in a siding during such events, might be slower to drag round via Lincoln but at least its on the move, add a couple of HSTs in the mix aswell and no sign of anything even thinking about going round, do the EC crews still sign it?

Regardless of whether East Coast had HST's or thunderbirds available, and regardless of whether they could crew them, the line between Sleaford and Spalding is only open 0830-1700 so would have been closed when the incident was unfolding.
 

trainfanatic

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It's about time the anachronism that is the Joint line between Doncaster and Peterboro is addressed to cater for such disturbances that have recently occurred on the ECML. Semaphore signalling, box operated LC's and boxes only open til late afternoon are very much old hat now, especially with this route being designated an ECML diversionary route plus freight workings to take the strain off the ECML.

We need AHB's and modern signalling from central locations.

Yet more disruption on the ECML this morning due to signalling problems between Berwick/NCL. 60 mins delay forecast!!

Sorry for the rant, my wife is on her way home from Dundee!
 

TheBigD

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It's about time the anachronism that is the Joint line between Doncaster and Peterboro is addressed to cater for such disturbances that have recently occurred on the ECML. Semaphore signalling, box operated LC's and boxes only open til late afternoon are very much old hat now, especially with this route being designated an ECML diversionary route plus freight workings to take the strain off the ECML.

We need AHB's and modern signalling from central locations.

Yet more disruption on the ECML this morning due to signalling problems between Berwick/NCL. 60 mins delay forecast!!

Sorry for the rant, my wife is on her way home from Dundee!

Joint line is being upgraded, ready for the freight of the ECML. December 2013 I think is the completion date.

I may well be wtrong but I think that new installations of AHB are not allowed and that full barriers have to be provided. Apologies if wrong!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
From choice or other circumstances?

GNER didn't consider it neccessary. NX continued that policy initially but changed that in November 2009 I beleive. I read somewhere that initially only 9 drivers learn't the route for the initial diversions but I would expect more to sign it now.
 
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