Edinburgh Park to Glasgow

[Goatboy]

Chaps,

The myriad of different routes between Edinburgh and Glasgow has got the better of me.

If you hold an Edinburgh Park to Glasgow ticket, is it valid via Haymarket or is that doubling back? I can't tell which Edinburgh to Glasgow services you'd pick up at Haymarket might go striaght through Edinburgh Park without stopping!

It looks to me like the direct fast Edinburgh to Glasgow services go through Edinburgh Park non stop. NRES journey planner puts you on one of these trains with a change at Haymarket but surely thats doubling back so invalid?

 

[12CSVT]

With 4 trains per hour via Airdrie (admittedly not the quickest Edinburgh - Glasgow route) I don't think there would be any advantage going via Haymarket or changing trains en-route.

 

[Goatboy]

With 4 trains per hour via Airdrie (admittedly not the quickest Edinburgh - Glasgow route) I don't think there would be any advantage going via Haymarket or changing trains en-route.

NRES mostly suggests changing at Haymarket which offers a faster and more comfortable service. But, as above, seems wrong to me.

 

[sonic2009]

You are allowed to travel via Haymarket as it is on a map EG.

Permitted routes from EDINBURGH PARK to GLASGOW QUEEN ST route ANY PERMITTED

EDINBURGH PARK is associated with these routeing points: Edinburgh Group, Falkirk Group, Inverkeithing Group.

GLASGOW QUEEN ST is part of the Glasgow Group.

The following are ALWAYS Permitted routes:

Any direct trains advertised from EDINBURGH PARK to GLASGOW QUEEN ST with a regular train service, not including walks and transfers (39.64 miles) which is via Drumgelloch

The following are Permitted unless there is an easement preventing them:

Any route 42.64 miles or less (i.e. within 3 miles of the shortest route above).

Mapped routes from Edinburgh Group to GLASGOW QUEEN ST EG

( Edinburgh Park - Haymarket - Falkirk High - Glasgow Queen Street)

Mapped routes from Falkirk Group to GLASGOW QUEEN ST SG

And any additional route allowed by an easement.

 

[Goatboy]

But surely you double back as the direct Haymarket to Queen Street service then goes back, non stop, through Edinburgh Park?

 

[bb21]

Queen Street ones all do (go through Edinburgh Park) AFAIK. Central ones don't.

 

[Goatboy]

So whats the deal with NRES? I can imagine Edinburgh Park to Glasgow is a popular journey choice so there must be a significant number of people taking NRES word for it and changing at Haymarket onto a fast service to Glasgow which then doubles back through Edinburgh Park.

 

[tony_mac]

If it isn't a stop or a timing point then it is quite possible that NRES doesn't know about the train passing through Edinburgh Park. It's quite a common problem.

 

[Goatboy]

It does seem odd there is no Easement allowing it - the fare is exactly the same price as the fare from Edinburgh anyway.

And to be even more confusing presumably the other services to Glasgow - for example East Coast/XC to Central and Scotrail via Shotts *are* permissable with a change at Haymarket. How can the travelling public be expected to know which pass non-stop through Edinburgh Park and are therefore barred and which do not and are therefore permissable?

 

[bb21]

Indeed it appears that Edinburgh Park is not a timing point if the train is not booked to call there. This will explain how NRES do not realise that there is a doubleback.

I'm sure you know my position on an itinerary being offered by NRES.

I would however use an itinerary provided by the retailer from whom the ticket is purchased as proof of the contract entered into. I believe that it gives you a stronger argument although others might disagree.

 

[reb0118]

I work the route. Short answer is yes you can double back via Haymarket.


However going to Glasgow I would suggest taking the Dunblane service to Linlithgow & changing there. Returning from Glasgow you are better time wise, contrary to the automatic announcer, changing at Haymarket as you just miss the connecting service at Linlithgow as the Dunblane ~ Edinburgh stopper runs in front of the Glasgow ~ Edinburgh express. NB however sometimes it is quicker to change at Polmont or Linlithgow due to peak hour tweaking in the timetable.

There are also, as mentioned above, four direct services an hour via Bathgate to Glasgow QS LL (two fast & two slow). The fasts compare quite favourably with travelling via the High.

This can be confirmed by use of the Scottish Local Routeing Guide here.

 

[John @ home]

sonic2009 has accurately quoted tcbc's analysis of Permitted Routes between Edinburgh Park and Glasgow Queen St. Unfortunately, there are a number of errors in the published data upon which that analysis is based. This makes it difficult for us to reach rational conclusions.

EDINBURGH PARK is associated with these routeing points: Edinburgh Group, Falkirk Group, Inverkeithing Group.

This statement contains two errors. The description of Routeing Points on pages F1 - F3 of the National Routeing Guide in Detail makes it clear that "All related stations are therefore associated with the nearest routeing point or routeing point group in each direction". Edinburgh Park is a related station; that is, it is not a Routeing Point or a member of a Routeing Point Group. Inverkeithing Group is not "the nearest routeing point" in any direction. It is not possible to travel by rail from Edinburgh Park to any station in Inverkeithing Group without passing through another Routeing Point. Therefore Inverkeithing Group has been included in error and should be ignored.

Following the opening of the Airdrie - Bathgate line in 2010, Glasgow Group was added as an associated Routeing Point for stations Caldercruix to Uphall. Unfortunately, Edinburgh Park was omitted in error. If this had been done, Edinburgh Park and Glasgow Queen St would have a Routeing Point in common (Glasgow Group) and the permitted routes between these stations would be properly defined.

In the absence of Glasgow Group as an associated Routeing Point for Edinburgh Park, it is not possible to use the routeing rules to obtain a rational statement of permitted routes between Edinburgh Park and Glasgow Queen St. It seems to me that the routeing data has been tweaked to allow travel by reasonable routes, while the errors in the Routeing Point Identifier mean that a strict implementation of the rules would not have been reasonable.

These difficulties would have been avoided if Edinburgh Park station had been added as an additional member of Edinburgh Group when the station opened in 2003. I suggest that doing this would be the fastest way to solve these difficulties.