Edinburgh to London tickets changing to via York rather than any permitted

[thedbdiboy]

It looks to me like various parties are acting in a manner that is deliberately designed to make the system look crazy in order to justify their actions.

It is the actions (or inactions) of the DfT and certain train companies that have caused most of this craziness and it would actually be easy to fix the fares concerned by reducing them were appropriate. No-one is stopping TOCs doing that.

But they choose not to because they appear to be are lobbying for a system that favours them and the DfT wants that.

It's an interesting situation because they can choose to do some really crazy stuff in order to justify a new system.

In other words, some people are currently deemed to be paying too little and/or getting too much flexibility.

You are right that the plans do centre around restricting the routes people can take. There have been numerous attempts (some successful and some not) to reduce the routeing options for many journeys in recent years.

The whole situation has been caused by years of inaction but it is too simplistic to say that TOCs could have just reduced fares - the entire industry model promoted by government(s) has been predicated on maintaining and increasing fares income. You keep referring to TOCs as if they have won and that the DfT is caving into them but many of the owning groups have now been exiled from the industry and those that remain are tightly bound to what the DfT, the Treasury and No.10 want.

I wonder who will be the judge of the success (or not) of the trial? Some independent, impartial body with no vested interests or more than likely the Rail Delivery Group (whoever comes up with these daft names?) who as we all know have passengers the industry's best interests at heart...

It will be judged by the government, who are answerable to the voters (in a few years time...)

 

[PG]

It will be judged by the government, who are answerable to the voters (in a few years time...)

Somehow I doubt most voters will see the railways fare structure determine how they cast their vote...

 

[gordonthemoron]

I am having serious difficulty in finding fares for a return Milton Keynes-Edinborough, Out 8/5 and return 10/5. Due to WCML being closed north of Carlisle on 10/5, I'd like to return via London, but there is no longer a via London ticket. All I can see is KGX-EDB return and MKC-EUS return. Any ideas?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Have you thought of returning on TPE via Manchester?
fastjp offers an hourly 6h28m, TPE Edinburgh to Huddersfield, then on TPE again to Manchester Pic, then Avanti.
The "Not London" SVR fare should work via both Preston and Leeds.
Changing at Huddersfield puts you on the TPE service to Pic via Guide Bridge, and you get half an hour at Pic.
Journey time via London would be about 5h45m.
TPE Edinburgh-Huddersfield should be an 802.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am having serious difficulty in finding fares for a return Milton Keynes-Edinborough, Out 8/5 and return 10/5. Due to WCML being closed north of Carlisle on 10/5, I'd like to return via London, but there is no longer a via London ticket. All I can see is KGX-EDB return and MKC-EUS return. Any ideas?

There has never (in recent years) been an Edinburgh via London ticket from MKC, or at least not that I remember, though it is rather an odd omission. There is a +ANY PERMITTED one from Watford Junction, however, which could be used to start short if you wanted. However, if an Advance is available at the required time for your outward journey you might find it cheaper to use that for your outward plus one of the new singles to Kings Cross for your return, and to buy the last bit to MKC separately.

(This just highlights the benefits of single-fare pricing, of course - I wish they'd have kept the returns too for those wanting them though!)

 

[alistairlees]

Have you thought of returning on TPE via Manchester?
fastjp offers an hourly 6h28m, TPE Edinburgh to Huddersfield, then on TPE again to Manchester Pic, then Avanti.
The "Not London" SVR fare should work via both Preston and Leeds.
Changing at Huddersfield puts you on the TPE service to Pic via Guide Bridge, and you get half an hour at Pic.
Journey time via London would be about 5h45m.
TPE Edinburgh-Huddersfield should be an 802.

Is that a valid route though? It's not valid on maps, unless I am missing something.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is that a valid route though? It's not valid on maps, unless I am missing something.

I can't think why it shouldn't be valid.
MKC-Edinburgh is certainly valid via Manchester and TPE, and TPE offer Edinburgh services from Manchester via both WCML and ECML.
I imagine the ECML route will be promoted by TPE as the alternative to the closed WCML on May 10 - it will be faster than the bus replacement.
If not valid, there will be Advances on Avanti and TPE splitting in Manchester which will work at about the same as the SVR fare, though you would lose flexibility.

 

[robbeech]

Is that a valid route though? It's not valid on maps, unless I am missing something.

No, you'd need multiple tickets to do this. Remember FastJP doesn't take the routeing guide into account, very useful but important to remember that before you try it on a normal ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't think why it shouldn't be valid.
MKC-Edinburgh is certainly valid via Manchester and TPE, and TPE offer Edinburgh services from Manchester via both WCML and ECML.

It doesn't work like that. It's valid via Manchester and TPE on the West Coast but is not, unless the Routeing Guide has been changed, valid via the East Coast. I checked that out specifically when I was weekly-commuting that for work because I fancied some interesting routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, you'd need multiple tickets to do this. Remember FastJP doesn't take the routeing guide into account, very useful but important to remember that before you try it on a normal ticket.

The best way to know is to stick the route into the NRE planner using via points if necessary, if it gives it to you on one ticket at the correct price (assuming that there aren't multiple routed tickets at the same price, which I don't think I've ever actually seen) you're good.

 

[AY1975]

It's not just Edinburgh also the other two stations in the trial Newcastle & Leeds will become routed via Peterborough. This is as these were also valid via Sheffield historically.

I would guess that Edinburgh or Glasgow to London tickets would historically have been valid either via Preston, Manchester and Sheffield, via the Settle & Carlisle, Leeds and Sheffield, or via the ECML to York then via Sheffield to St Pancras (or via the Settle & Carlisle and Leeds to King's Cross).

Back in the 1980s my parents and I travelled from London to Edinburgh, out using the Sleeper from Euston, returning via the S&C and then Leeds to King's Cross. Such a journey would nowadays presumably require separate tickets for each leg. In BR days it was great to have the flexibility to stop off at places of interest en route (and even stay overnight there) and to take slower but more scenic routes such as the S&C.

Are you sure that Glasgow/Edinburgh-London tickets were valid via Sheffield (and via all the above mentioned routes) right up until the recent changes, though? Some route restrictions that didn't exist in BR days were introduced in the early days of privatisation, when "any reasonable route" was changed to "any permitted route".

 

[AY1975]

Really ?
I have just searched for the 1252 direct train from Edinburgh tomorrow (27 Feb) and the walk up off peak single fare is £75.75.

That's an internet-only Off-Peak Single that's only available as part of a return journey. If you book an Avanti Off-Peak Single via the Avanti West Coast website you can buy any type of single ticket for the other leg of the journey, either Avanti or West Coast.

The Avanti-only Off-Peak Single quoted on the Avanti website is £75.55, not £75.75. The LNER Super Off-Peak Single is £75.75 if booked via the LNER website but unlike its Avanti equivalent it appears to be available for one-way as well as return journeys. The Avanti site quotes £78.75 for an LNER Super Off-Peak Single, though.

From next week there is no Standard walk up fare listed for that train. The only walk up fare is First @ £258.50.

The Avanti website quotes two different Avanti-only London-Edinburgh First Class Anytime Single fares: £251 and £258.50. The only difference between them that I can see is that the £251 one says valid only on Avanti West Coast, and the £258.50 one says valid only on booked AWC services. It seems odd that you should pay a few more pounds to be tied to a specific train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There do appear to be two First Anytime Singles for that journey at the prices you say, one routed AVANTI and one AVANTI W.COAST.

Rush job? Neither requires pre-booking, though, that's clearly to do with the routeing.