Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
How about an Avanti and connections ticket?
It needs to be route Carlisle.
How about an Avanti and connections ticket?
Anyone fancy a FOI request? It'll be interesting to see what they redact.
Avanti must know that their fares will also soon be following the single-leg pricing model.
At the moment you can travel London to Edinburgh "any permitted" without using LNER or Avanti at all! Introducing "Avanti only" tickets would be a very poor substitute.
Quite. All those putting forward 'Avanti-only', 'Avanti & connections' or 'via Carlisle' are, unwittingly or otherwise, endorsing the DfT/RDG strategy of reducing flexibility.
Or, indeed ScotRail. Both crop up on many Sundays in the year as the quicker options, and people use them...FWIW I see a note saying the replacement would be "Avanti only" - as others have said that isn't really acceptable because what if they wanted to use TPE?
Avanti know that they can use this as an opportunity to put the squeeze on by creating Avanti Only tickets - it's realistic to think they will take it. It's not good for consumers, but what is, these days? Don't overestimate our influence here.Quite. All those putting forward 'Avanti-only', 'Avanti & connections' or 'via Carlisle' are, unwittingly or otherwise, endorsing the DfT/RDG strategy of reducing flexibility.
No, I'm just accepting that flexibility will be lost and there's no way we are going to win that one.
That is one of the aspirations of the future system - any national rail journey by any route should be capable of generating a fare. However, for that to work, fares have to be compatible with the prices for the route used, so it does require more granular routeing. An integral part of this is the need for a much easier way to change itineraries than exists now with the various excess rules.A fare should be calculable for any route of the passenger's choosing. (I suppose Trainsplit can now do that - for this example split at Carlisle I guess!) Nobody tells me which way I must go by car.
Yes, I probably should have said accepting rather than endorsing.
That is one of the aspirations of the future system - any national rail journey by any route should be capable of generating a fare. However, for that to work, fares have to be compatible with the prices for the route used, so it does require more granular routeing. An integral part of this is the need for a much easier way to change itineraries than exists now with the various excess rules.
I imagine that there will be no route Carlisle tickets, however. Haymarket to London will still serve the purpose for those who are in the know, or are served by the most generous booking clerks.
Would you like to travel from Manchester to Newark? Just a two hour five minute trip from Victoria to North Gate, want to arrive at 0838, with one easy 12 minute connection at Leeds?What makes me very angry is "thou shalt go this way".
Yes. March to London has them.Can you have 'and connections' for non-advance fares?
They provide an important cap on other fares. Without them you could well see Sunday evenings, for instance, costing £300+.
That is one of the aspirations of the future system - any national rail journey by any route should be capable of generating a fare. However, for that to work, fares have to be compatible with the prices for the route used, so it does require more granular routeing.
You don't need to bet - we know it's true! Virgin Trains East Coast's leaked business plan from 2015 specifically said that they were "constrained" in yield by the Super Off Peak Return price at weekends, because they were obliged to offer it and unable to increase it. Simply put: they know that they could charge more than £145.70 for a Newcastle to London return on most weekend trains without turning custom away, but they're not allowed to.I bet if you remove that cap they would be trying to charge £100+ for the fast services.
It should be the same price, agreed.I hestitate to say this, for fear the thread will be hijacked by the usual suspects, but there is only a 7 mile difference between travelling Edinburgh to London via the ECML or via the WCML. In any sensible pricing model the fare would be the same via both routes. It should certainly not be twice the price for a walk up ticket on one than on the other (using the Haymarket workround) or not priced at all on one route which is what the change in this thread will mean.
Absolutely. It has not only failed, but further exposed the incredible anti-passenger bias at the DfT.Yes and, when the trial was anounced, DfT stated that the aim was to "significantly boost customer confidence and flexibility in booking train tickets".
The withdrawal of walk up tickets for anyone who wishes to make an end to end journey on a through train cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, significantly boost flexibility. The conclusion, therefore, must be that the trial has failed to meet its aim.
They will just pay consumers less compensation...Reading the delay repay details for LNER it says that for a 120 minute delay you get a 100% refund of both the single and return journey (in other words, the whole ticket) but how can that work once they sell only singles? Then you'd only get half the money back for a long delay.
Yes you only get half the money back. Also a passenger who previously got an Off Peak Return pays a huge premium. It's all covered here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lner-new-fares-trial.197707/Reading the delay repay details for LNER it says that for a 120 minute delay you get a 100% refund of both the single and return journey (in other words, the whole ticket) but how can that work once they sell only singles? Then you'd only get half the money back for a long delay.
Or Caledonian Sleepers. For a railcard holder in particular, a discounted return can be the cheaper way of travelling one way with CS and the other by daytime services.Or, indeed ScotRail.
Yes you only get half the money back. Also a passenger who previously got an Off Peak Return pays a huge premium. It's all covered here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lner-new-fares-trial.197707/
Depends if anyone does the legwork for them so they have a ready source of copy to copy and paste plus some quotes to add inSo will any newspapers be investigating this and running a story to expose the increases and loss of flexibility? I mean they write negative articles every time the fares go up at Christmas and also at other times it is known by how much they might go up by at Christmas.
So will any newspapers be investigating this and running a story to expose the increases and loss of flexibility? I mean they write negative articles every time the fares go up at Christmas and also at other times it is known by how much they might go up by at Christmas.
There may be some loss of flexibility but the walk up off peak single fare has actually gone down quite a bit in price from EDB-LDN. I suspect that if you asked an ordinary person (rather than a routeing guide afficianado) whether they would choose the reduction in fare or route availability, they would rather save the money, so I'm not sure this is the sort of crusading cause celebre that's going to get the newspapers terribly excited.So will any newspapers be investigating this and running a story to expose the increases and loss of flexibility? I mean they write negative articles every time the fares go up at Christmas and also at other times it is known by how much they might go up by at Christmas.
... the walk up off peak single fare has actually gone down quite a bit in price from EDB-LDN.
so I'm not sure this is the sort of crusading cause celebre that's going to get the newspapers terribly excited.
Yes but an ordinary traveller will actually get the 1300 which gets them to London nearly an hour earlier and will still cost £75.75, unless Avanti pull their finger out and sort out a suitable fare. Someone not versed in the weird world of rail fares might actually wonder why a fare priced by LNER was ever valid on the services of their main rail competitor.....Really ?
I have just searched for the 1252 direct train from Edinburgh tomorrow (27 Feb) and the walk up off peak single fare is £75.75.
From next week there is no Standard walk up fare listed for that train. The only walk up fare is First @ £258.50.