Edinburgh Tram developments

[Perthsaint]

Actually ... they are, and the belief otherwise by rail management is one of the things they just lose it on. Ask people who are daily commuters about their journey, and one of the first things that comes up is "getting a seat". Travelling when swinging round a pole is a real distress purchase.

Perhaps someone should have told the designers of the Elizabeth Line.

 

[Taunton]

Perhaps someone should have told the designers of the Elizabeth Line.

Quite so (off topic though).

 

[InOban]

It seems to me that there are two factors here. What is the peak/off-peak ratio? If there is a huge commuter demand (I guess to/from Edinburgh Park and Gyle) then fewer seats a day more standing seems sensible. The other factor is journey length and I guess that many airport passengers are travelling quite a distance, and even further once the extension opens. That would suggest more seats

 

[NotATrainspott]

Actually ... they are, and the belief otherwise by rail management is one of the things they just lose it on. Ask people who are daily commuters about their journey, and one of the first things that comes up is "getting a seat". Travelling when swinging round a pole is a real distress purchase.

One of the first things, but not the first. Actually being able to get to their destination, and getting there quickly, is more important than having a seat. Providing seats is a luxury we can only afford when we aren't subject to other major constraints.

On a major route corridor like Leith Walk, dwell times become a dominating factor on overall capacity and journey times. Buses set up so that everyone can have a seat (double deckers!) mean that it is harder for people to get on and off at each stop. Adding a second set of doors helps. The bottleneck can then shift to the stairs up and down, so you end up with a three door, two stair solution like the New Routemaster. With each iteration, you lose more and more seating capacity and rely instead on standing capacity. Trolley buses and trams take that to the next level.

Maybe the reason people are so desperate for a seat is that the buses take so long to get around the city? Maybe a solution with reduced dwell times can reduce journey times by enough to compensate for any loss in seating. Standing only becomes a real problem once people are onboard for more than some reasonable amount of time - e.g. 20 mins.

 

[takno]

One of the first things, but not the first. Actually being able to get to their destination, and getting there quickly, is more important than having a seat. Providing seats is a luxury we can only afford when we aren't subject to other major constraints.

On a major route corridor like Leith Walk, dwell times become a dominating factor on overall capacity and journey times. Buses set up so that everyone can have a seat (double deckers!) mean that it is harder for people to get on and off at each stop. Adding a second set of doors helps. The bottleneck can then shift to the stairs up and down, so you end up with a three door, two stair solution like the New Routemaster. With each iteration, you lose more and more seating capacity and rely instead on standing capacity. Trolley buses and trams take that to the next level.

Maybe the reason people are so desperate for a seat is that the buses take so long to get around the city? Maybe a solution with reduced dwell times can reduce journey times by enough to compensate for any loss in seating. Standing only becomes a real problem once people are onboard for more than some reasonable amount of time - e.g. 20 mins.

My two mile commute across town takes 20 minutes. Much shorter a journey and most people who are in a fit state to stand for 20 minutes would just walk anyway.

 

[InOban]

The final major concrete pours have been taking place over the past few days.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The final major concrete pours have been taking place over the past few days.

I’ve heard a rumour that Leith Walk will open fully in both directions around the end of this month. If that’s true we’re definitely near the end now, thankfully.

 

[InOban]

I think that it should have already been open except that they've decided to resurface the roadway. The city seems to have realised that their main roads are in a dreadful state. Some have been patched ever since they were resurfaced after the originally tram lines were lifted in 1956

 

[gavin1985]

Just saw this post on Facebook for the Trams. My hope is that we will be getting contactless capping, much like across Lothian Country, Skylink, East Coast and Lothian City. Anyone know what's going on?

Edinburgh Trams

Ahead of the introduction of more contactless ticketing options next year, a team of independent surveyors will be on trams this week asking our customers questions about current tram tickets,...

www.facebook.com

Ahead of the introduction of more contactless ticketing options next year, a team of independent surveyors will be on trams this week asking our customers questions about current tram tickets, payment methods, and the number of journeys made.

Please give them your feedback

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Just saw this post on Facebook for the Trams. My hope is that we will be getting contactless capping, much like across Lothian Country, Skylink, East Coast and Lothian City. Anyone know what's going on?

Edinburgh Trams

Ahead of the introduction of more contactless ticketing options next year, a team of independent surveyors will be on trams this week asking our customers questions about current tram tickets,...

www.facebook.com

View attachment 121926

That’s the main reason as to why the new pink readers were installed; Tap, Tap, Cap is coming to the Trams. It’s a case of when not if, when being the crucial word. My thoughts are it could launch around Christmas time as you can do wonders with PR then. If not then it could possibly coincide with the opening of the extension.

 

[gavin1985]

That’s the main reason as to why the new pink readers were installed; Tap, Tap, Cap is coming to the Trams. It’s a case of when not if, when being the crucial word. My thoughts are it could launch around Christmas time as you can do wonders with PR then. If not then it could possibly coincide with the opening of the extension.

Ah ok thanks, that's what I had thought with them being installed, certainly the sooner the better. As the post mentions next year it probably is more likely for when the extension is opened up like you said.
One thing would be nice not having to use the ticket machines as they are very temperamental and have missed a few trams thanks to them.

 

[och aye]

Some clips from the driver simulator of the extended route.

 

[ld0595]

Some clips from the driver simulator of the extended route.

Interesting, thanks for sharing

 

[Scotrail314209]

I wonder if the extension will mean the Trams will run later into the evening... a 24 hour service can happen, they did it while the Queen's coffin was lying in state. The last tram from the City at 11:30pm is a joke imo.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I sincerely hope not as a 24-hour tram service serving a limited number of stops on only part of a route would be used by the other side of this continual tug of war as a reason to withdraw one or several night bus services that in some cases go significantly further in terms of distance than the tram ever will even in the wildest of wild dreams of the fantasists who support and advocate them. This would affect more people than it benefited

 

[cammyeaston]

I'd agree that later running trams would be good for the city but perhaps not a 24/7 service, as doing so would mean that there would be no effective time for line maintenance.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I'd agree that later running trams would be good for the city but perhaps not a 24/7 service, as doing so would mean that there would be no effective time for line maintenance.

I can see trams running round the clock on Saturday and Sunday mornings eventually. But I agree not all the time, and in my opinion not all of the route either.

 

[cammyeaston]

I can see trams running round the clock on Saturday and Sunday mornings eventually. But I agree not all the time, and in my opinion not all of the route either.

Agreed. The Haymarket (perhaps out to Edinburgh Park) to Leith section would be suitable for 24/7 but the airport would be overkill with the overnight bus service available.

I suppose it all depends on how the nightbus network would look.

 

[A330Alex]

Agreed. The Haymarket (perhaps out to Edinburgh Park) to Leith section would be suitable for 24/7 but the airport would be overkill with the overnight bus service available.

I suppose it all depends on how the nightbus network would look.

Haymarket-Newhaven would be the most natural choice since it will be a regular service during the day anyway. Although I imagine late night trams would be much more likely than 24/7 (ending ~02:00/03:00)

 

[Mal]

Someone recently mentioned that Leith Walk would be fully open by the end of October. Does anyone know if this is correct?

 

[Elwyn]

Someone recently mentioned that Leith Walk would be fully open by the end of October. Does anyone know if this is correct?

I was there yesterday. No it's not fully open. Two way traffic south of Pilrig St but one way north of that, and there's still a lot of work to be done to open up the rest down to the bottom of the Walk. I'd say Leith Walk is about a month away from being fully open to traffic.

That said, you can see steady progress. Overhead poles have appeared; most of the stops are nearing completion and so on. I am no engineer but I'd guess that it'll be January before there's any test running.

 

[Mal]

I was there yesterday. No it's not fully open. Two way traffic south of Pilrig St but one way north of that, and there's still a lot of work to be done to open up the rest down to the bottom of the Walk. I'd say Leith Walk is about a month away from being fully open to traffic.

That said, you can see steady progress. Overhead poles have appeared; most of the stops are nearing completion and so on. I am no engineer but I'd guess that it'll be January before there's any test running.

Thanks for that. Glad to hear that things are really coming along. Last time I was in Edinburgh was Sept 2021 so hope to get back some time in January to get my 'tram-riding fix' even if it is just to St Andrew Sq from The Gyle!

 

[InOban]

According to their twitter, it's for surfacing and lining work.

 

[Davester50]

I think that it should have already been open except that they've decided to resurface the roadway. The city seems to have realised that their main roads are in a dreadful state. Some have been patched ever since they were resurfaced after the originally tram lines were lifted in 1956

Was in Edinburgh last week. The roads were dreadful! I'd never have thought Angus and Dundee was a shining example, but jeez, it's night and day.

Has the fare structure been announced for the extension?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Has the fare structure been announced for the extension?

I’d be very surprised if any changes were made to the fare structure for the extension. It’s all within the City. Tap, tap, cap is apparently being introduced but that’s probably it.

 

[Davester50]

I’d be very surprised if any changes were made to the fare structure for the extension. It’s all within the City. Tap, tap, cap is apparently being introduced but that’s probably it.

Thanks. With all council budgets under strain, I was wondering if there had been proposals to change.
Just confirms how much of a rip-off the Airport levy is.

 

[Mal]

Thanks. With all council budgets under strain, I was wondering if there had been proposals to change.
Just confirms how much of a rip-off the Airport levy is.

Though you are right about the Airport surcharge is, the £1 80 flat fare and £4 50 day ticket for buses and trams must be the best value in Britain.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Though you are right about the Airport surcharge is, the £1 80 flat fare and £4 50 day ticket for buses and trams must be the best value in Britain.

Given the current climate it’s only a matter of time before it goes up though. £2 for a single and £5 for a DayTicket seems likely eventually.

 

[SteveP29]

Given the current climate it’s only a matter of time before it goes up though. £2 for a single and £5 for a DayTicket seems likely eventually.

I think that the monthly direct debit passes will also go up when single and day tickets go up too.
I'm currently paying £56 a month for my pass.
24/7 travel on Lothian buses and trams, its a not to be missed bargain imo

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I think that the monthly direct debit passes will also go up when single and day tickets go up too.
I'm currently paying £56 a month for my pass.
24/7 travel on Lothian buses and trams, its a not to be missed bargain imo

I know they want people to buy the Ridacard a year at a time now, but let’s be realistic the majority of people can’t afford that lump sum in one go.

Monthly direct debit going up to £60 seems probable if fares are changed.