EGIP electrification

[Chris125]

Transport Scotland now have a construction programme for EGIP on their website - Map

The key dates are:

- December 2013: Haymarket Station Capacity enhancements open to passengers

- May 2014: Electrification of Whifflet lines

- May 2014: Introduction of electric services on Cumbernauld route

- December 2016: Introduction of 7 car electric services on Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk High route

- December 2016: Edinburgh Gateway Rail /Tram interchange opens to passengers (by December 2016)

- December 2018: Electrification of Stirling, Alloa, Dunblane line services with journey time improvements for passengers travelling to Edinburgh or Glasgow

- December 2018: 42 minute fastest journey time and introduction of 8 car electric services on Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk High route

- Within CP5 (date TBC): Redevelopment of Glasgow Queen Street Station

- 2019: electrification of 75km of the Shotts Line between Holytown and Midcalder junctions


Chris

 

[PhilipW]

Looks like an eminently sensible plan to me.

This is the first time I have seen mention of firm plans to electrify the Shotts line. Again this is eminently sensible as both end are already electrified.

I see also from the map that the December 2018 timeframe includes extending the wires from Cumbernauld to Greenhill Lower junction so completing the 'via Cumbernauld' diversionary route. Great.

I hope all this is achievable in the time frame. I wish them well.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Shame they haven't snuck the Dalmeny chord back in.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Good to see the electrification plan back on the front burner.
Is "7-car electric trains by 2016" code for a combination of existing 3/4-car 380s or some new stock?

 

[HowardGWR]

Transport Scotland now have a construction programme for EGIP on their website - Map

The key dates are:

- December 2013: Haymarket Station Capacity enhancements open to passengers

- May 2014: Electrification of Whifflet lines

- May 2014: Introduction of electric services on Cumbernauld route

- December 2016: Introduction of 7 car electric services on Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk High route

- December 2016: Edinburgh Gateway Rail /Tram interchange opens to passengers (by December 2016)

- December 2018: Electrification of Stirling, Alloa, Dunblane line services with journey time improvements for passengers travelling to Edinburgh or Glasgow

- December 2018: 42 minute fastest journey time and introduction of 8 car electric services on Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk High route

- Within CP5 (date TBC): Redevelopment of Glasgow Queen Street Station

- 2019: electrification of 75km of the Shotts Line between Holytown and Midcalder junctions

Chris

Well researched Chris, thank you. As the OP wrote, the Shotts one is new to me too.

Is it the shortest route between Glasgow and Edinburgh?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Well researched Chris, thank you. As the OP wrote, the Shotts one is new to me too.
Is it the shortest route between Glasgow and Edinburgh?

No.
From Queen St LL via Bathgate is 44.25 miles.
From Queen St HL via Falkirk High is 47.25 miles.
From Central HL via Shotts is also 47.25 miles. (edit: 24 chains less from Glasgow Central LL, where these trains will probably go).
From Central HL via Carstairs is 57.25 miles.

 

[Surreyman]

"December 2016: Introduction of 7 car electric services on Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk High route

- December 2018: 42 minute fastest journey time and introduction of 8 car electric services on Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk High route"

Does this mean Dec 2016 services run with 3 & 4 car 380s coupled to make up 7 cars, with some new 4 car EMU stock ordered for Dec 2018?

 

[tbtc]

Transport Scotland now have a construction programme for EGIP on their website - Map

The key dates are:

- December 2013: Haymarket Station Capacity enhancements open to passengers

- May 2014: Electrification of Whifflet lines

- May 2014: Introduction of electric services on Cumbernauld route

"December 2016: Introduction of 7 car electric services on Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk High route

- December 2018: 42 minute fastest journey time and introduction of 8 car electric services on Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk High route"

Does this mean Dec 2016 services run with 3 & 4 car 380s coupled to make up 7 cars, with some new 4 car EMU stock ordered for Dec 2018?

The Paisley Canal line could be EMU run because they ordered extra 380s planning on the GARL service (so had some spare capacity).

But if Whifflet and Cumbernauld are both going to be electrified in the next nine months then I don't think there'll be enough "slack" to find extra EMUs without some extra ones being procured (well before we have to worry about 2018)?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

But if Whifflet and Cumbernauld are both going to be electrified in the next nine months then I don't think there'll be enough "slack" to find extra EMUs without some extra ones being procured (well before we have to worry about 2018)?

They've only said the line will be electrified, so a token EMU for the opening ceremony will fulfil that promise.

 

[route:oxford]

- December 2018: Electrification of Stirling, Alloa, Dunblane line services with journey time improvements for passengers travelling to Edinburgh or Glasgow.

Various bits are on-course to help deliver this timetable.

From "The Stirling Observer"

Proposals for a £3.5m revamp of Dunblane station – including the removal of the Victorian footbridge there – have been unveiled.

Network Rail has submitted a planning application for a new footbridge with lifts to replace the existing ramped ‘blue bridge’ at the station.

And the company plan to relocate the 165-year-old station’s old footbridge, which links platforms one and two, to the Caledonian Heritage Railway at Bridge of Dun.

They say the 19th century structure has to be moved to allow for both line electrification work and the installation of the new bridge.

http://www.stirlingobserver.co.uk/s...nt-scheme-at-dunblane-station-51226-33673171/

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Excellent news. A big step up from when I first travelled in Scotland. Push-pull class 27s

 

[clc]

if Whifflet and Cumbernauld are both going to be electrified in the next nine months then I don't think there'll be enough "slack" to find extra EMUs without some extra ones being procured (well before we have to worry about 2018)?

How much time is normally required to procure and build a new fleet? I don't think they've even published an OJEU notice yet.

 

[alexf380]

From Central HL via Shotts is also 47.25 miles. (edit: 24 chains less from Glasgow Central LL, where these trains will probably go).

Are there plans to route the trains down to the low level? I wouldn't have thought there would be the capacity, what with the Whifflet trains also soon to be going down there.

 

[David Goddard]

Whifflet service in its current form needs 3 units. If integrated into the existing Lanarkshire area services then they might get away with just needing two more EMUS
Cumbernaulds also use three units. This could be two also (turnaround tight), if the Falkirk extension was swapped to the Motherwell service.

 

[clc]

Are there plans to route the trains down to the low level? I wouldn't have thought there would be the capacity, what with the Whifflet trains also soon to be going down there.

It's been suggested that Shotts and Whifflet would have to be diverted to Central Low Level in order to create a path for G2E HSR into Central High Level. Scottish Ministers HLOS includes looking at train handling capability at Glasgow Central, including potential to use the low level line for additional local services.

 

[jopsuk]

Is the Maryhill line likely to be included at some point? By the time that lot's finished Maryhill and East Kilbride will be the only "local" services that are diesel operated out of Glasgow. The remainder ScotRail diesel services (from Glasgow) will be "longer distance"- West Highland Line, Stranraer, Carlisle, Perth, Inverness and Aberdeen.

Edinburgh will still have local diesel services in the form of the newly opened (by then) Waverly and the "how on earth do we do the Forth Bridge?" Fife services.

 

[reb0118]

Has there been any word on the traction type for the new electric E&G services? I would assume they would require a 1st class section as now?

 

[D6975]

"December 2016: Introduction of 7 car electric services on Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk High route

- December 2018: 42 minute fastest journey time and introduction of 8 car electric services on Edinburgh- Glasgow via Falkirk High route"

Does this mean Dec 2016 services run with 3 & 4 car 380s coupled to make up 7 cars, with some new 4 car EMU stock ordered for Dec 2018?

Much discussed elsewhere. The possibility of 8 coach units temporarily running as 7 cars until the platforms are all long enough should not be discounted.

I believe the remodelling of Queen Street to give longer platforms will involve moving the bufferstops closer to the road due to the restrictions at the other end caused by the tunnel.

 

[cle]

It's a shame to lose some terminal, but they could always commandeer some extra space from the commercial premises surrounding it to become facilities.

It doesn't need the same amount of space as Central or Edinburgh, but still requires more than a suburban-only hub.

 

[Altnabreac]

Shame they haven't snuck the Dalmeny chord back in.

Dalmeny Chord will now progress as part of the Glasgow - Edinburgh HSR proposal. The new HSR trains will use existing capacity on the south lines through Haymarket so Falkirk services will need to use the Dalmeny chord and the north lines.

The Whifflet and Shotts line electrification will also help create spare capacity for HSR at Glasgow Central.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is the Maryhill line likely to be included at some point? By the time that lot's finished Maryhill and East Kilbride will be the only "local" services that are diesel operated out of Glasgow. The remainder ScotRail diesel services (from Glasgow) will be "longer distance"- West Highland Line, Stranraer, Carlisle, Perth, Inverness and Aberdeen.

Edinburgh will still have local diesel services in the form of the newly opened (by then) Waverly and the "how on earth do we do the Forth Bridge?" Fife services.

Maryhill, East Kilbride and Barrhead have all definitely been announced for CP5/CP6.

Where the plans remain slightly unclear are south of Barrhead, Kilmarnock is definitely included in the list of lines to be done at some point, beyond Killie I've seen some documents that include the line across to Barassie and some that hint at wiring GSW as well but it seems unlikely either one would be a priority ahead of say the Fife Circle.

 

[michael769]

Has there been any word on the traction type for the new electric E&G services? I would assume they would require a 1st class section as now?

I believe the plan is to order 380s with an internal layout closer to the current 170s.

 

[edwin_m]

It's been suggested that Shotts and Whifflet would have to be diverted to Central Low Level in order to create a path for G2E HSR into Central High Level. Scottish Ministers HLOS includes looking at train handling capability at Glasgow Central, including potential to use the low level line for additional local services.

The idea is to create an extra turnback facility before the Central LL line merges with the Queen Street LL line. Simplifying somewhat, the line through Partick is 100% utilised so both lines east of there are only 50% utilised.

 

[HSTEd]

Can't you use a conductor rail on the Forth Bridge?

 

[Altnabreac]

The idea is to create an extra turnback facility before the Central LL line merges with the Queen Street LL line. Simplifying somewhat, the line through Partick is 100% utilised so both lines east of there are only 50% utilised.

As always with EGIP details are hard to clarify. This proposal is usually called the Finnieston Turnback. It was definitely part of EGIP when the Network Rail route plan (Q) 2010 was published (with a scheduled delivery of 2013/2014) - see p28:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/RoutePlans/PDF/RouteQ-ScotlandWest.pdf

The latest EGIP page doesn't mention it but it seems likely its still included as there is finite capacity through Partick and 4-5tph from Shotts/Whifflet cannot be fitted beyond Exhibition Centre.

The alternative (or additional) option is to terminate trains running through Queen St Low Level west of Charing Cross. This option is variously known as the Kelvinhaugh/Yorkhill turnback and was previously associated with the Glasgow Crossrail programme.

The same document linked to above says that it too is being progressed as part of the EGIP but again it's unclear whether its included in the rescoped project.

This option allows a reduction in trains to Partick from Queen St releasing capacity for Central low level trains to run through. It would also allow additional Queen St Low Level trains to Cumbernauld etc to run.

Given the project page now explicitly says the Cumbernauld train will be an extension of the existing Dalmuir - Springburn services it may not be required except for additional operational flexibility.

 

[snowball]

Can't you use a conductor rail on the Forth Bridge?

I assume you mean an overhead one.

Having watched this video of a crossing of the bridge as seen from the cab, I'd say the biggest problem is not likely to be the clearance between the structure and the conductor wire or rail. I think it's more likely to be the clearance between diagonal members of the structure and the live left end of the pantograph head of a passing electric train.

Maybe they could attach ceramic sheets to the underside of the diagonal girders on the principle that ceramics are a better insulator than air? Or maybe the physical clearance isn't there?

 

[clc]

Maryhill, East Kilbride and Barrhead have all definitely been announced for CP5/CP6.
.

When do you think the EK line will be electrified? As its to be an alliance project I'm hoping it'll happen sooner than expected, like Paisley Canal.

Slightly off topic but as you seem to be the Oracle with regard to Scottish rail projects, would you happen to know what stage things are at regarding STPR Project 24 - "West of Scotland Strategic Rail Enhancements - Metro/LRT across Glasgow and/or a new city centre station"? It sounds very interesting.

 

[Altnabreac]

When do you think the EK line will be electrified? As its to be an alliance project I'm hoping it'll happen sooner than expected, like Paisley Canal.

That same document linked above
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/RoutePlans/PDF/RouteQ-ScotlandWest.pdf
Gives December 2018 as the date for East Kilbride and Barrhead electrification. However it lists 2016 for Whifflet and 2017 for Paisley Canal so things have obviously changed since then.

I would say though that its probably bad news for EK as the current programme looks to be one electrification team for Scotland who do Cumbernauld and Whifflet first, then move on to the Falkirk line by 2016 (Maryhill probably gets done during this phase), Dunblane and Alloa by 2018 and Shotts in 2019 (bumped up the list because it interacts with High Speed Rail).

So my guess is that East Kilbride and Barrhead follow on from Shotts in 2020, Kilmarnock by 2021. A chance they could slot in sooner but EGIP has a high political profile so will take priority.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Slightly off topic but as you seem to be the Oracle with regard to Scottish rail projects, would you happen to know what stage things are at regarding STPR Project 24 - "West of Scotland Strategic Rail Enhancements - Metro/LRT across Glasgow and/or a new city centre station"? It sounds very interesting.

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...ications-and-consultations/j11260a-05.htm#a24

The way the STPR was developed was very much a gap based assessment rather than a solution based one. So it aimed to identify what the strategic problems facing Scotland were and then look at potential solutions.

The further down the list you get the vaguer some of the proposals are! 24 (West of Scotland rail) is a mishmash of all the various Glasgow interventions suggested by councils and consultants bundled together under the headline "We'll need to do something about capacity and new employment sites in Glasgow by 2030".

There are recycled ideas like light rail conversion of Cathcart Circle and reopening Botanic Gardens tunnel. Pet council projects like Clyde Waterfront transit (under construction as a bus route and no huge appetite for tram conversion given the east coast experience!) and vague ideas like a cross city tunnel.

As far as I know no design or planning work has taken place on any options and it is still up in the air what might happen.

I suspect the emerging strategy will depend on the location choice for any new HSR station in Glasgow (only required in Phase 2 of the Scottish HSR project). 2 main front runners are a Bellgrove/High St proposal backed by the city council (mainly due to good potential for regeneration in the east end) and a Central Station rebuild of Platform 1-3 extending over Clyde on disused eastern piers, Blackfriars style.

Whichever station site is chosen will drive the likely rail development in Glasgow to provide suitable connectivity.

If I had to guess I'd go for Central station being the HSR station site and 24 eventually consisting of a tunnel linking Cowlairs and Paisley line with Central even lower level station being developed. Looking at well into the 2030s mind.

 

[clc]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, much appreciated.

Thats interesting about those old granite piers in the Clyde possibly being brought back into use. Given the usual Victorian build quality I suppose they'd be good for another couple hundred years.

Would the Central 'even lower' station be linked to Queen St like in this crossrail scheme?:http://www.futureglasgow.co.uk/Index_Infrastructure.html

I always assumed they would go back to the future and build a new surface station at St Enoch utilising the City Union Line, just because of the cost of tunneling. In saying that, a tunnel linking Central and Queen St would be fantastic. Just a shame the timescale is so far off. It would be nice to see some exciting infrastructure built here in the next 10 years.

 

[Altnabreac]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, much appreciated.

Thats interesting about those old granite piers in the Clyde possibly being brought back into use. Given the usual Victorian build quality I suppose they'd be good for another couple hundred years.

Would the Central 'even lower' station be linked to Queen St like in this crossrail scheme?:http://www.futureglasgow.co.uk/Index_Infrastructure.html

I always assumed they would go back to the future and build a new surface station at St Enoch utilising the City Union Line, just because of the cost of tunneling.

No problem, again this is all just informed speculation based on what's appeared in various strategy documents, there's a surprising amount out there if you know where to look.

I suspect any future cross Glasgow tunnel would entail replacing nearly all current Queen St High Level services. Central and Queen St are too close together to justify two expensive underground stations. Tunnel would then run to new portal NE of the city.

If you're spending £3bn+ on a new tunnel you want to run at least 12tph through it to justify the expenditure. That easily covers Maryhill (2tph), Stirling (2tph), Edinburgh via Falkirk (4tph) and Falkirk Grahamston / Cumbernauld (2tph). You'd probably want some extra Croy terminators (bringing back the extra turnround track/platform plan dropped from EGIP) and maybe even links to Airdrie - Bathgate as well to get services up to 14-16tph.

At best Queen St HL might remain for the Aberdeen/Inverness and West Highland line trains.

In saying that, a tunnel linking Central and Queen St would be fantastic. Just a shame the timescale is so far off. It would be nice to see some exciting infrastructure built here in the next 10 years.

Scotland could yet open its High Speed Rail linking Edinburgh and Glasgow before HS2 phase 1 is ready in 2024. What more could you want than genuine cutting edge infrastructure like that!

 

[cle]

With wires slated to push more and more trains through the low levels in the city centre, and with places needed to terminate on the western side - where are frequencies going to increase on the other side?

The Balloch line, and from Cardross to Craigendoran, would need doubling and new platforms.