EGIP electrification

[YorkshireBear]

This project had got me very confused. What was it originally meant to entail? What is it now meant to entail? What has been removed/added? I cant find good sources as most are out of date.

 

[jopsuk]

at the fuullest extent, it was going to include the lines to Dunblane and Alloa at an early stage- with a major depot at Stirling. I think as it currently stands that has been pushed back a few years rather than dropped.

Cumbernauld-Falkirk I think is part of it?

Not sure if it is or was going to include the Shotts line.

As far as I can remember, Fife isn't and has never been part of the plan.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Most of the debate has been about the problems of running the proposed 6tph service E-G.
SG have now cut this to 4tph with 8-car trains, so this means some of the intended new infrastructure is not needed - the Dalmeny loop and associated track and signalling.
The Garngad curve has also been axed (which would have taken Cumbernauld services directly into Queen St LL). They will now reverse at Springburn.
I think everything else is still there but the only things in CP5 are the E-G main line via Falkirk High, and Springburn-Cumbernauld.
On the other hand Paisley Canal was not in the original E-G plan but suddenly leapt to the front and is already working.
I imagine SG and NR are busy replanning what order to do things in to get benefits in CP5 for the funds available.
SG committed to (I think) 100 stkm of electrification annually in their HLOS.

 

[jw]

Update from Transport Scotland today. Looks like Whifflet electrification is being accelerated.

 

[SkinnyDave]

I am confused because I thought they were not going to Alloa and Dunblane anymore and this statement mentions now it will be ready at end of 2018

Does Keith Brown make it up as he goes along?

 

[Chris125]

I am confused because I thought they were not going to Alloa and Dunblane anymore and this statement mentions now it will be ready at end of 2018

Does Keith Brown make it up as he goes along?

That was the initial impression given but there was a clarification a few months later - in essence, instead of Stirling/Alloa/Dunblane being funded and delivered as part of EGIP alongside the E&G and Cumbernauld lines by 2016, it would instead be considered as part of the wider rolling programme of electrification being funded and delivered by 2019, one of whose projects is the Whifflet wiring just confirmed by Keith Brown.

Chris

 

[scotraildriver]

It is getting a bit silly now - the E & G will be electrified but without any of the diversionary routes being done initially so what happens if there is a blockage is anyones guess. Each electric service will be followed by a diesel one so no chance of assistance if there is a failure.
Cumbernauld is also very odd - as mentioned a reverse will be reintroduced at Springburn (20 years after the Cowlairs chord eliminated it) resulting in journeys up to 12 minutes longer with 5 extra stops. This makes the bus a more attractive alternative and that could lose Scotrail a lot of business. Non air conditioned, Spartan 320's will replace modern 170's. Progress? Hmmmmmmm Well an extra train per hour will make up for it I suppose!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Of course I know it can not be undone but this line should have been done in the mid 1980s.

 

[Aictos]

It is getting a bit silly now - the E & G will be electrified but without any of the diversionary routes being done initially so what happens if there is a blockage is anyones guess. Each electric service will be followed by a diesel one so no chance of assistance if there is a failure.
Cumbernauld is also very odd - as mentioned a reverse will be reintroduced at Springburn (20 years after the Cowlairs chord eliminated it) resulting in journeys up to 12 minutes longer with 5 extra stops. This makes the bus a more attractive alternative and that could lose Scotrail a lot of business. Non air conditioned, Spartan 320's will replace modern 170's. Progress? Hmmmmmmm Well an extra train per hour will make up for it I suppose!

Bit like the ECML being wired up between Peterborough and Doncaster via Grantham but not the diversionary route via Lincoln.....

 

[edwin_m]

I don't think diversionary routes are a big issue - there are only two other electrified routes between Edinburgh and Glasgow after all!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Update from Transport Scotland today. Looks like Whifflet electrification is being accelerated.

In addition to updating Parliament today on the Edinburgh-Glasgow Improvement Programme (EGIP), the Transport Minister also announced that the line between Glasgow, Rutherglen and Coatbridge (Whifflet route) will be fully electrified ahead the Glasgow 2014 games as part of a wider electrification programme - four years ahead of schedule, in a rail industry deal worth nearly £30m.

I find it hard to belief it will all be done in a year's time since there's no sign of any work starting yet, but I suppose if all the planning work has been done it might not take too long. The Paisley Canal work seemed to happen very quickly.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I find it hard to belief it will all be done in a year's time since there's no sign of any work starting yet, but I suppose if all the planning work has been done it might not take too long. The Paisley Canal work seemed to happen very quickly.

It's 8 miles of fairly straightforward wiring. Do we know who's doing it?
I noticed Babcock did the Paisley line, while Carillion are due to do the E-G main line.
It sort of smacks of "we've got the team together, what do we do with them".
As Balfour Beatty are doing the NW job and Amey the Great Western, NR seem to have four electrification teams on the go.
I assume it will be done by the same team as the Springburn-Cumbernauld line (13 miles).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It sort of smacks of "we've got the team together, what do we do with them".

In the past - but I wish there had been more of this attitude in the past. OK we have the team together that did the ECML (1988-1989 timeframe) - lets see - it makes sense to now do Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High. Then we will do Edinburgh -Aberdeen and then close the gap so Aberdeen-Glasgow.

That is the sort of thinking I like.

 

[edwin_m]

Paisley Canal used a few tricks and exemptions from normal standards to deliver electrification quickly and cheaply. Some of these would also be relevant to another relatively lightly used suburban line like Whifflet, but less so for most of EGIP which needs to cater for 100mph inter-urban traffic.

 

[michael769]

Some of these would also be relevant to another relatively lightly used suburban line like Whifflet, but less so for most of EGIP which needs to cater for 100mph inter-urban traffic.

Indeed EGIP will require some quite significant civil engineering works.

One of the benefits of expediting the whifflet project will be to build up skill levels in advance of the more complex works coming up.

 

[route:oxford]

Of course I know it can not be undone but this line should have been done in the mid 1980s.

Erm, Should have been done in 1951...

Along with the proposed Glasgow North Station

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps/br..._proposed-new-north-station_5396_2481_300.jpg



Acknowledgement to Hipkiss.org for the scanned image.

 

[Railsigns]

I don't think diversionary routes are a big issue - there are only two other electrified routes between Edinburgh and Glasgow after all!

Neither of which are directly accessible from Glasgow Queen Street High Level station, unfortunately. That makes them alternative routes rather than diversionary routes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Paisley Canal used a few tricks and exemptions from normal standards to deliver electrification quickly and cheaply. Some of these would also be relevant to another relatively lightly used suburban line like Whifflet, but less so for most of EGIP which needs to cater for 100mph inter-urban traffic.

The tricks that allowed the Paisley Canal line to be electrified on the cheap couldn't be used on the Whifflet line as that is a freight route and also a WCML diversionary route.

 

[Chris125]

The tricks that allowed the Paisley Canal line to be electrified on the cheap couldn't be used on the Whifflet line as that is a freight route and also a WCML diversionary route.

While the engineering tricks may not all be relevant, I wouldn't be surprised if they waived the right to compensation payments again.

Chris

 

[edwin_m]

Neither of which are directly accessible from Glasgow Queen Street High Level station, unfortunately. That makes them alternative routes rather than diversionary routes.

Whatever it is called, I don't see any problem with running a modified evening/Sunday E&G service via Airdrie or Carstairs with appropriate advance notice and possibly some adjustment to the slower service on the route in question. In fact even with the original full EGIP this would be necessary for a disruptive possession on certain parts of the Falkirk High route.

 

[scotraildriver]

I don't think diversionary routes are a big issue - there are only two other electrified routes between Edinburgh and Glasgow after all!

No, you need to be able to route trains differently at short notice. All it takes is a bridge strike of something to totally shut the line and you need to be able to send the trains somewhere. Otherwise you will end up with trains full of people going nowhere for hours. Bad times ahead I feel.

 

[edwin_m]

There are plenty of two track electrified routes with no electrified diversionary route including ECML north of Hitchin and WCML north of Crewe (soon to be north of Preston).

 

[Chris125]

There's an interesting article from the latest Rail Engineer which goes into more detail of the changes to the scheme and the work underway and due to begin.

Chris

 

[Altnabreac]

Good summary in that article.

8 coach trains 4tph give the same capacity increase as 6 coach trains 6tph so the descoping was a no brainer. The way it was announced was daft and the on off anoouncements of electrification of Dunblane & Alloa copuld have been handled much better but at least they are still happening.

For me the foolish cut was the initial removal of the Garngad Chord from the project, even with increased acceleration the time penalty may discourage Cumbernauld commuters who might have switched back from driving to Croy.

The one thing it doesn't mention is the new Edinburgh - Glasgow High Speed Line due to open around 2025. As this is planned to have a 2-3 tph service Transport Scotland did not want a 6tph service on the Falkirk line which would have to be cut back. Politically its much easier to reduce capacity by cutting train lengths once the new HS route opens than by reducing frequencies.

Interestingly though it is likely that the axed Dalmeny Chord will have to be revisited as part of the high speed plans in order to rebalance services on the four tracks into Waverley's western approaches as phase 1 of the high speed line will use existing tracks from Wester Hailes into Waverley.

 

[edwin_m]

Surely 4tph of 8 coaches is 32 coaches per hour and 6tph of 6 coaches is 36tph?

 

[Altnabreac]

Surely 4tph of 8 coaches is 32 coaches per hour and 6tph of 6 coaches is 36tph?

True, but its more that 4tph of 8 coaches delivers sufficient extra capacity for the next 10 years until the high speed rail route opens.

Also worth bearing in mind that 2tph of the 6tph proposal would have been non stop and so the new scheme delivers more capacity to intermediate stops like Linlithgow and Falkirk High.

 

[matchmaker]

Whatever it is called, I don't see any problem with running a modified evening/Sunday E&G service via Airdrie or Carstairs with appropriate advance notice and possibly some adjustment to the slower service on the route in question. In fact even with the original full EGIP this would be necessary for a disruptive possession on certain parts of the Falkirk High route.

The last time the route had major works done was around 1970, when it was being modernised to allow the "one at each end" push-pull services. On Sundays the line was closed and all services diverted via Bathgate. That line by that time had no passenger service, so it was an interesting trip for me.

Oh, and it is interesting to note that the best time between terminals of the new super-dooper line and trains will be the same as regularly achieved back in 1971 by a couple of Class 27's, 6 Mk2's and (east of Greenhill) manual signalling!

 

[edwin_m]

Wasn't something big done to Falkirk Tunnel around 1980?

 

[Chris125]

The one thing it doesn't mention is the new Edinburgh - Glasgow High Speed Line due to open around 2025. As this is planned to have a 2-3 tph service Transport Scotland did not want a 6tph service on the Falkirk line which would have to be cut back. Politically its much easier to reduce capacity by cutting train lengths once the new HS route opens than by reducing frequencies.

It does, but only in passing -"What is new, however, is an increase in train length from six to eight coaches to provide 32 coaches per hour, a 33% increase in current capacity. Although this is less than the 50% increase in the original EGIP proposal, since then the Scottish Government announced its plan for high speed rail link that would provide a significant increase in capacity between the two cities around 2025"

Chris

 

[KBD1]

Wasn't something big done to Falkirk Tunnel around 1980?

I'm sure new drainage & slab track were installed around then.

 

[clc]

Is the Edinburgh-Glasgow HSR line by 2025 a realistic prospect? Whats the ball park cost - £2-3 billion?