Elizabeth line: Commuters say service 'not what was promised'

[43066]

I've never seen a train anywhere "packed". I wonder if it's at a few doors, and there's adequate space further down the (huge) trains. Contrary to much theory, passengers do not recirculate down inside the train, and in particular do not if it is crowded - they can't, by definition, because of the crowd.

Really!? I’ve been on many EL services which are very busy throughout - certainly “full and standing”, and tending towards crush loaded. Last one a few minutes ago (Farringdon to Manor Park)!

It is generally well used throughout the day and overall an excellent service in my experience.

 

[camflyer]

The staff at Heathrow do their best to encourage you to wait for the “faster” Heathrow Express service. Combined with the “tired tourist” factor, I bet the impact is directionally asymmetric.

Certainly the advertising and signposting for the Heathrow Express is much more prominent. If you'd just arrived in London for the first time after a long haul flight then you may well think that the HX is the main way into town.

 

[Techniquest]

Most likely judging by the amount of suitcases visible on almost every train

My experience of Heathrow Express in recent months is not expected to be representative, but I recently travelled both ways and what I saw suggested the Express is still popular.

I was at the very front of the 1625 Paddington to Heathrow on 12th January, so while it was quiet up that end one would expect it to be on a January Thursday afternoon. I travelled back around 0912 on Sunday 15th January, and again while it wasn't packed in my bit of the train there were still healthy loads on. For that time of day on a Sunday, in January, I'd not expect it to be packed. In the peak holiday season, then that would be different.

It is worth mentioning that the 345 in the other platform appeared very busy, but I expected that to be the case. I was a little smug as I left on my much emptier 387!

On other times when I've been at Paddington, the Express does load quite well from what I've seen. Not crush loaded, by any means, but certainly busy.

As for the Elizabeth line, I've yet to have any issues with it. Punctual in my experience, bar once with a signalling issue on a 345 at Stratford, and no issues whatsoever. Some trains I have done have been busy, but by no means crush loaded or anything. Every 5 minutes (or so!) through the core is just brilliant, with huge stations and their platforms, good quality trains, no complaints from me at all!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’ve also taken Heathrow Express since the Elizabeth Line opened, and it was almost full and standing.

 

[jon0844]

How is the Central Line doing now that so many people have likely switched to the EL if appropriate? Will there be a time where things balance out a little as some people go back to the once overcrowded line?

I assume that while there are going to be some genuinely new customers, many are coming from other lines and perhaps things will settle down in the coming months and years.

Also if the trains are uncomfortable for people with luggage (at least towards the airport, as the trains are going to be near empty when they're coming back), they might decide to stump up for Heathrow Express next time they fly.

 

[Thirteen]

Whoever thinks the Elizabeth Line is unreliable should go on another TOC, they'll come crawling back.

It's not perfect but nothing in life is and to me, it's a real asset to London's transport system.

 

[800 Driver]

Commuters complain Elizabeth line not as promised - BBC News

From overcrowding to unreliability, some commuters complain the new service can be a "nightmare".

www.bbc.co.uk

CrossElizabethPurple Line is a billion times better than the 2 car turbo people at West Ealing used to have. You could never even get on at rush hour. People just love complaining

 

[Bletchleyite]

CrossElizabethPurple Line is a billion times better than the 2 car turbo people at West Ealing used to have. You could never even get on at rush hour. People just love complaining

Well, quite. Have people already forgotten how utterly, utterly dire the West London DMU services were just 10 years ago? I get that TfL's approach isn't for everyone, but the GW electrification as a whole has been transformational.

 

[Horizon22]

CrossElizabethPurple Line is a billion times better than the 2 car turbo people at West Ealing used to have. You could never even get on at rush hour. People just love complaining

Yeah - but such is the population churn in London, many of these people may not be aware of things that were true 5 years ago. Some of the stations looked from the 90s back then. Still, I think some of these articles are just fishing for problems.

 

[Craig1122]

I said this earlier on another thread, Londoners were promised Tube style frequencies in Crossrail publicity, so is it any wonder that many passengers and commuters are not happy with current service levels?

I think this in nail on the head. 24tph has been the headline and people don't look at detail. So judged against that the west of Paddington service doesn't look so good, despite delivering what was promised.

Because the GW was never electrified there was never the same level of housing development as there was South of the Thames. Looking at the development along the route that's in progress that looks to be changing. I do think that West of Paddington services always looked a bit sparse as planned and that had covid not happened they might already be genuinely over crowded.

 

[mrmartin]

I think this in nail on the head. 24tph has been the headline and people don't look at detail. So judged against that the west of Paddington service doesn't look so good, despite delivering what was promised.

Because the GW was never electrified there was never the same level of housing development as there was South of the Thames. Looking at the development along the route that's in progress that looks to be changing. I do think that West of Paddington services always looked a bit sparse as planned and that had covid not happened they might already be genuinely over crowded.

Yeah I agree, I think we could have been looking at serious overcrowding problems on Liz line had it not been for covid - there are also some definite pinch points in station designs too which I think would become more problematic if it was crush loaded.

Also agree with the crazy amount of housing development on the western side. There must be (tens?) of thousands of flats under construction right now, and places like Acton are getting really tall skyscrapers which was unthinkable even a few years ago.

My guess long term we will see this being used much more intensively than currently, probably sooner than people think!

 

[334033]

Being able to walk to the Northern Line platforms at Moorgate from the EL platforms at Liverpool Street and then use the Northern Line to Bank instead of the Central Line is a benefit I have thoroughly enjoyed.

 

[setdown]

Again there's delays this morning, meaning no service at Ealing Broadway for 17 minutes (which sounds ridiculously good compared to other places, but when you've got such a volume of people, it really needs to be more often than that). Similar delays on Monday. I can understand people being disappointed after all the fanfare and billions spent, if the service just ends up being as unreliable as your typical railway.

 

[Mojo]

Yes it is busy, but isn’t that the point? And it’s due to get a further frequency increase soon, I think?

The Crossrail website says “When the final timetable is in place in 2023, an Elizabeth line service every fifteen minutes at peak will serve this station,” which is the current frequency.

So is West Ealing due to have any frequency increase, as the Crossrail site implies the current service is the same from the full timetable launch.

 

[Edsmith]

How is the Central Line doing now that so many people have likely switched to the EL if appropriate? Will there be a time where things balance out a little as some people go back to the once overcrowded line?

I assume that while there are going to be some genuinely new customers, many are coming from other lines and perhaps things will settle down in the coming months and years.

Also if the trains are uncomfortable for people with luggage (at least towards the airport, as the trains are going to be near empty when they're coming back), they might decide to stump up for Heathrow Express next time they fly.

The Central Line is much quiter in my experience, gone are the peak hour crush loadings. The H&C/Circle Line seems a lot quieter as well.

 

[Nick_C]

Certainly the advertising and signposting for the Heathrow Express is much more prominent. If you'd just arrived in London for the first time after a long haul flight then you may well think that the HX is the main way into town.

The staff at Heathrow do their best to encourage you to wait for the “faster” Heathrow Express service. Combined with the “tired tourist” factor, I bet the impact is directionally asymmetric.

Particularly as most foreigners arriving at a new city are probably not going to expect to be gouged for £25 each just to get to the city - most other cities I've been to (at least in mainland Europe) the main transit into the city is charged at standard metro rates, maybe one extra 'zone' - as per the Piccadilly line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Particularly as most foreigners arriving at a new city are probably not going to expect to be gouged for £25 each just to get to the city - most other cities I've been to (at least in mainland Europe) the main transit into the city is charged at standard metro rates, maybe one extra 'zone' - as per the Piccadilly line.

There are a number of other cities that have a premium airport express, it's by no means only the UK.

(The UK can also offer "airport expresses" that are at normal fare, i.e. Stansted, Birmingham and Manchester, to counter that )

 

[swt_passenger]

The Crossrail website says “When the final timetable is in place in 2023, an Elizabeth line service every fifteen minutes at peak will serve this station,” which is the current frequency.

So is West Ealing due to have any frequency increase, as the Crossrail site implies the current service is the same from the full timetable launch.

I’d say that every item of timetable publicity over the many years that Crossrail was in development made it perfectly clear that the headline 24tph frequency only applied between Whitechapel and Paddington, and that some stations west of Paddington would have much lower numbers.

People claiming it’s not what was promised must not have been paying attention.

 

[DanNCL]

If Londoners don't like Crossrail, they're more than welcome to come to the North for a bit and try out TPE... They'd quickly realise how lucky they are with Crossrail!

The staff at Heathrow do their best to encourage you to wait for the “faster” Heathrow Express service. Combined with the “tired tourist” factor, I bet the impact is directionally asymmetric.

They do that because they're employed by Heathrow Express, so to them it's more about getting people to use their service instead of the competition. If they were employed by TFL instead one could guarantee they'd not be making the same effort to get people to use the express.

There are a number of other cities that have a premium airport express, it's by no means only the UK.

Indeed, Vienna for example.

 

[Cdd89]

I think tourists expect / accept an airport premium, what they would not expect (having touched in using contactless) is a drastically different fare and capping/OSI arrangements depending on which train they catch at the platform.

This is another reason why I expect the effect is asymmetric, as people will see the cost on their statement and research why it’s so high.

(I actually think it would be a canny commercial move for HEx to throw in a London tube journey, as that additional fee makes the fare even more laughable).

 

[bakerstreet]

The Crossrail website says “When the final timetable is in place in 2023, an Elizabeth line service every fifteen minutes at peak will serve this station,” which is the current frequency.

So is West Ealing due to have any frequency increase, as the Crossrail site implies the current service is the same from the full timetable launch.

Oh I think that’s what has confused me then. I knew there was an increase due in the core this year, I did not realise it would not affect the west.

 

[DarloRich]

i think i would be more inclined to complain about comfort on the longer journeys than by service interval!

My few journeys on CR have been enjoyable and reliable.

 

[306024]

The Great Western side of the Elizabeth Line is possibly the Achilles heel, given current infrastructure reliability and the mixing with heavy freight.

Plus tongue in cheek the culture shock on the Great Western Railway of operating a frequent metro style service.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

The EL has been a bit...rubbish in my experience. I've stopped going out of my way to use it because it seems a bit temperamental. Getting anything beyond Paddington seems near impossible most of the time. Considering how far down some of the stations are (Liverpool Street) it's not worth the risk sometimes.

 

[Horizon22]

The Crossrail website says “When the final timetable is in place in 2023, an Elizabeth line service every fifteen minutes at peak will serve this station,” which is the current frequency.

So is West Ealing due to have any frequency increase, as the Crossrail site implies the current service is the same from the full timetable launch.

Should be 6tph peak & off peak I believe when it gets the additional Shenfield - Heathrow service.

After this point though, unless you get Maidenhead and Reading trains calling additionally (which those outer stations will not appreciate - some already think it is too slow!), there’s really no more capacity to run anything else.

This issue of course being when you max out capacity the tiniest problem can escalate delays and cancellations for an extended period.

The EL has been a bit...rubbish in my experience. I've stopped going out of my way to use it because it seems a bit temperamental. Getting anything beyond Paddington seems near impossible most of the time. Considering how far down some of the stations are (Liverpool Street) it's not worth the risk sometimes.

Near impossible? Hyperbole much! “The risk” is a bit weird; if you want certain stations the only way now to get to certain destinations on GEML/GWML is via the lower level platforms so I can presume you’re only doing the trip for a visit.

 

[Thirteen]

Near impossible? Hyperbole much!

Utter crap would what I would say to the EL being near impossible beyond Paddington. All the EL journeys I've made have been fine.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Should be 6tph peak & off peak I believe when it gets the additional Shenfield - Heathrow service.

After this point though, unless you get Maidenhead and Reading trains calling additionally (which those outer stations will not appreciate - some already think it is too slow!), there’s really no more capacity to run anything else.

This issue of course being when you max out capacity the tiniest problem can escalate delays and cancellations for an extended period.



Near impossible? Hyperbole much!

I wonder if the EL should be split into different service patterns so people are aware which train from what destination terminates where. The system could be called "Crossrail" and each service pattern given a name; Elizabeth Line, Thames Line etc.

 

[Horizon22]

I wonder if the EL should be split into different service patterns so people are aware which train from what destination terminates where. The system could be called "Crossrail" and each service pattern given a name; Elizabeth Line, Thames Line etc.

It is part of different service patterns but just with differing destinations. Lots of London Underground (District, Met, Central) and other TOCs (Thameslink, Southeastern) can handle this as one unity, so I don’t think that would be required. Overground is one homogeneous blob too, although I know many don’t think that’s sensible in practice.

It’s already pretty much how it will be going forward:
Anywhere on the West - destination will be Abbey Wood (with 2tph Shenfield)
Anywhere on the East - destination will be Paddington (with 2tph Heathrow)
Abbey Wood - Canary Wharf - destinations Reading /Maidenhead / Heathrow (with peak Paddington terminators)

Core section obviously serves all destinations.

 

[TheDavibob]

I've found it rather good east of Paddington, my only complaints are with the infrastructure rather than the service itself. (Notably that the stations are incredibly bland and soulless, the interchanges to other lines are mostly poor, and the ticket gates at Paddington don't accept gold-card-discounted super-off-peak travelcards for some reason (not an issue I've found at any other ticket gate)).

Re the travelcard issue - I noticed this at the weekend, too, with a 26-30 discounted super-off-peak travelcard (presumably pretty much exactly the same as you had, mine from Cambridge North). Paddington Crossrail the only place there were issues, fine at Bond Street, fine at Paddington underground.

 

[The Quincunx]

I regularly get the 07:22 from West Ealing to Farringdon. Since through-running started, I have always managed to get at seat except on one morning a couple of weeks ago. My main gripe is the positioning of the exits at the extreme ends of the very long platforms, making passengers for Farringdon gravitate towards either the front or rear car, depending on their end destination. Maybe there is more room in the middle cars, but that could result in a long shlep when I got off. Cannot recall having to stand on the way home.