Elizabeth line: Commuters say service 'not what was promised'

[ELfan]

Tfl material may have been accurate but some of the marketing material from the many (overpriced) new builds hasn't always been!

 

[mangyiscute]

I've used it a good amount west of Paddington (admittedly mainly weekends and nothing peak) and I'm yet to see these terribly crowded trains with people unable to get off etc, and unlike most, I have had very few experiences of delays etc in this area too

 

[Taunton]

The lift at Custom House between DLR and Elizabeth, little used anyway, is already bust and boarded off after just a few months, with a notice not to be fixed until March.

One wonders who is their maintenance contractor. Normally if in use less than a year it would still be in warranty, but of course it was probably signed off long ago.

 

[bramling]

I regularly get the 07:22 from West Ealing to Farringdon. Since through-running started, I have always managed to get at seat except on one morning a couple of weeks ago. My main gripe is the positioning of the exits at the extreme ends of the very long platforms, making passengers for Farringdon gravitate towards either the front or rear car, depending on their end destination. Maybe there is more room in the middle cars, but that could result in a long shlep when I got off. Cannot recall having to stand on the way home.

Have to say my experience thus far is that the design of positioning the platform entrances at the extreme ends of Crossrail stations seems to have been a significant design mistake.

 

[Taunton]

Have to say my experience thus far is that the design of positioning the platform entrances at the extreme ends of Crossrail stations seems to have been a significant design mistake.

I came through Farringdon this evening in the peak, at the extreme west end entrance, and the crowds had gathered on the platform right at that point. There could be seen plenty of space further along the platform, but I couldn't get through.

 

[stuu]

I’d say that every item of timetable publicity over the many years that Crossrail was in development made it perfectly clear that the headline 24tph frequency only applied between Whitechapel and Paddington, and that some stations west of Paddington would have much lower numbers.

People claiming it’s not what was promised must not have been paying attention.

But how many people actually pay attention to the detail, and go and check project websites? If you go to Streetview you can go back and see the billboards on the construction hoardings at places like West Ealing don't talk about the frequency, just the new railway and new trains. Even before the launch Crossrail/TfL hadn't publicly announced the service pattern.

Whilst it's true that it was well-known amongst transport aficionados, I don't think it is entirely the fault of the average person for not realising that the service wouldn't be tube-like frequencies

 

[DC1989]

Didn't crossrail say they hoped to move 200 million passenger journeys per year?

Based on the latest TFL Elizabeth line data the last 2 weeks that there are public records for it moved over 4 million passengers per week. If this trend holds (and if anything it should increase further from May) that's 208 million passenger journeys per year. So they are already over what they expected pre covid.

 

[Howardh]

Didn't crossrail say they hoped to move 200 million passenger journeys per year?

Based on the latest TFL Elizabeth line data the last 2 weeks that there are public records for it moved over 4 million passengers per week. If this trend holds (and if anything it should increase further from May) that's 208 million passenger journeys per year. So they are already over what they expected pre covid.

How much has it taken from other services? Are the tube lines quieter?

 

[DC1989]

I don't know, I haven't seen the figures for that. I'm sure the central line is quieter though, wasn't that one of the main points of it? To relieve congestion on the central line?

 

[setdown]

I don't know, I haven't seen the figures for that. I'm sure the central line is quieter though, wasn't that one of the main points of it? To relieve congestion on the central line?

Plenty of space in the mid-week morning Central line trains from Ealing Broadway through to Liverpool Street. I gather it didn't always used to be like this! Some of the YouTube videos from pre-covid look horrible, multiple trains arriving without being able to get on.

 

[The Quincunx]

Plenty of space in the mid-week morning Central line trains from Ealing Broadway through to Liverpool Street. I gather it didn't always used to be like this! Some of the YouTube videos from pre-covid look horrible, multiple trains arriving without being able to get on.

Pre-Elizabeth Line, I would often go in by Central (to St Paul's) or District (to Mansion House) from Ealing Broadway at round about 07:10-07:25 and come home from Barbican via GWR/Heathrow Connect from Paddington. Unless there was obvious disruption, there were always seats available in the morning on both Underground lines. The Central would fill up by North Acton and the District by Hammersmith. I have not gone that way recently to be able to judge how the Elizabeth Line may have changed things.

 

[miami]

Looking at live departures I see 4tph from West Ealing and Acton going east.

I've only ever used the line to/from Acton Mainline, but I'm sure I had to wait about 30 minutes after just missing one train at Acton. Has it recently increased?

 

[bramling]

Whilst it's true that it was well-known amongst transport aficionados, I don't think it is entirely the fault of the average person for not realising that the service wouldn't be tube-like frequencies

And the decision to change the branding to Elizabeth Line may well play a part in this.

I have no issue with Elizabeth Line in itself, however the “mode” should have been Crossrail, to make it clear that it *isn’t* a traditional Underground line, nor a traditional terminus-oriented or orbital rail service.

They had the absolute perfect brand, but a certain politician had to stick his oar in.

 

[PeterC]

And the decision to change the branding to Elizabeth Line may well play a part in this.

I have no issue with Elizabeth Line in itself, however the “mode” should have been Crossrail, to make it clear that it *isn’t* a traditional Underground line, nor a traditional terminus-oriented or orbital rail service.

They had the absolute perfect brand, but a certain politician had to stick his oar in.

Where's the "like" button?

 

[43066]

And the decision to change the branding to Elizabeth Line may well play a part in this.

I have no issue with Elizabeth Line in itself, however the “mode” should have been Crossrail, to make it clear that it *isn’t* a traditional Underground line, nor a traditional terminus-oriented or orbital rail service.

They had the absolute perfect brand, but a certain politician had to stick his oar in.

Agreed!

 

[Dore & Totley]

Pre-Elizabeth Line, I would often go in by Central (to St Paul's) or District (to Mansion House) from Ealing Broadway at round about 07:10-07:25 and come home from Barbican via GWR/Heathrow Connect from Paddington. Unless there was obvious disruption, there were always seats available in the morning on both Underground lines. The Central would fill up by North Acton and the District by Hammersmith. I have not gone that way recently to be able to judge how the Elizabeth Line may have changed things.

I travelled from North Acton for a week in early December into Wood Lane during rush hour and had no problems getting on a train. Got a seat two of four days.

 

[tbtc]

Tfl material may have been accurate but some of the marketing material from the many (overpriced) new builds hasn't always been!

I think that this is a very important point

Whilst dozens of stations have more trains than they did pre-opening (and certainly more capacity!) - and nowhere has lost out AIUI - however accurate the information from TfL was, it only takes one unscrupulous property developer to suggest the “every two minutes” will apply to every suburban station and you end up with people annoyed that their local station “only” has a two hundred metre long train every ten/ fifteen minutes into the West End rather than a 165 that dumped you at Paddington, because they bought a stupidly expensive flat expecting a train every few seconds

Not the railways fault but what can you do?

 

[uglymonkey]

But..but, If its run by TfL and its tube line, it will run at tube line frequencies. That's implied.. there fore the person on the Clapham Omnibus will assume that unless marketing or publicity tell them otherwise. Managing expectations I think they call it.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I did find it a little annoying waiting at Paddington for a train to Acton Mainline. I must’ve just missed one and something must’ve been slightly wrong because 5 other trains came through (4 terminators and a Reading) before a Heathrow I could board.

 

[Falcon1200]

Particularly as most foreigners arriving at a new city are probably not going to expect to be gouged for £25 each just to get to the city

Surely most, if not all, people with sufficient means to fly to a major city airport are also able, before they even leave home (thanks to the internet) to work out how best to get to the city, including to their hotel if applicable, and what it will cost? I certainly did that last time I flew to New York (and getting from JFK to NYC was far more hassle than any route from Heathrow to London!)

 

[43066]

I think that this is a very important point

Whilst dozens of stations have more trains than they did pre-opening (and certainly more capacity!) - and nowhere has lost out AIUI - however accurate the information from TfL was, it only takes one unscrupulous property developer to suggest the “every two minutes” will apply to every suburban station and you end up with people annoyed that their local station “only” has a two hundred metre long train every ten/ fifteen minutes into the West End rather than a 165 that dumped you at Paddington, because they bought a stupidly expensive flat expecting a train every few seconds

Not the railways fault but what can you do?

There’s a little bit of perfect being the enemy of good here, though. Trains every ten minutes is still excellent. The outer reaches of the tube also certainly don’t all have the two minute type frequencies experienced in the central section.

 

[bramling]

Surely most, if not all, people with sufficient means to fly to a major city airport are also able, before they even leave home (thanks to the internet) to work out how best to get to the city, including to their hotel if applicable, and what it will cost? I certainly did that last time I flew to New York (and getting from JFK to NYC was far more hassle than any route from Heathrow to London!)

One might think so, but it seems apparently not in practice for at least a proportion of people.

 

[Class 170101]

Being able to walk to the Northern Line platforms at Moorgate from the EL platforms at Liverpool Street and then use the Northern Line to Bank instead of the Central Line is a benefit I have thoroughly enjoyed.

Must be quicker just to walk to the Bank from Liverpool Street via the surface route.

 

[PeterC]

Must be quicker just to walk to the Bank from Liverpool Street via the surface route.

Or from Moorgate if you are that end of the EL train

 

[bicbasher]

I did find it a little annoying waiting at Paddington for a train to Acton Mainline. I must’ve just missed one and something must’ve been slightly wrong because 5 other trains came through (4 terminators and a Reading) before a Heathrow I could board.

Action Mainline, West Ruislip and Hanwell are only served by 4tph to and from Heathrow until mid-May when it goes up to 6tph.

 

[Busman]

I stopped reading the report at "it was a stressful experience" accompanied by a picture of a girl who was around 21.

'Stressful'.

Really?

Try using the Central Line or Northern Line in the 90's in rush hour and I'll show you stressful.

I've used it regularly end to end for various reasons since it fully opened, worst case, it gets delayed for a few minutes.

But yeah, I guess a spacious, modern, opened planned and air conditioned train is stressful for the public of today.

Do me a favour.

 

[bicbasher]

Action Mainline, West Ruislip and Hanwell are only served by 4tph to and from Heathrow until mid-May when it goes up to 6tph.

I of course meant West Ealing!

 

[Southend Rider]

On the East side, it is a game changer no more 315s full and standing from Chadwell Heath, no more fist fights at Forest Gate as commuters were unable to get on trains. No more unable to get on 3 or 4 west bound central line trains at Liverpool Street. The good old days of 5 years ago.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It is part of different service patterns but just with differing destinations. Lots of London Underground (District, Met, Central) and other TOCs (Thameslink, Southeastern) can handle this as one unity, so I don’t think that would be required.
Abbey Wood - Canary Wharf - destinations Reading /Maidenhead / Heathrow (with peak Paddington terminators)

Core section obviously serves all destinations.

Nowhere on the District or Central has trains skipping stops, as happens between Paddington and Southall.

The Overground does between Bethnal Green and Hackney Downs, but this is made clear in the publicity.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-overground-network-map.pdf

 

[Horizon22]

Nowhere on the District or Central has trains skipping stops, as happens between Paddington and Southall.

The Overground does between Bethnal Green and Hackney Downs, but this is made clear in the publicity.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-overground-network-map.pdf

I see, I didn’t think you were referring to calling patterns. It could be a bit clearer with maybe a “+” like the Oveground has. However, has this really caught out that many people who have ended up at Southall or Ealing? I don’t think it has. The CIS in the core specifically states where the train is not stopping at; this has its own issues but in this regard is beneficial. Also these calling patterns have been going on for years, way before TfL took over the service.