Elizabeth line reliability issues

[Taunton]

Abbey Wood readers are supposed to be installed “this summer”. Custom House readers still doesn’t have a date.

I believe the issue at Custom House only affects PAYG Oyster users. The announcement on the DLR platforms have changed to reflect this. It now says:
”Please remember to touch out with your Oyster card before you continue your journey on the Elizabeth Line”.
Before it used to say contactless card or device as well.

The message should really say:

”Please remember to touch out with your Oyster card before you continue your journey on the Elizabeth Line, on a reader which is nowhere to be seen and doesn't exist on the signed route to the Elizabeth Line gateline”.

In an ideal world the Newham Borough trading standards department should be prosecuting TfL for such a blatant rip-off of the unsuspecting.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Abbey Wood readers are supposed to be installed “this summer”. Custom House readers still doesn’t have a date.

I believe the issue at Custom House only affects PAYG Oyster users. The announcement on the DLR platforms have changed to reflect this. It now says:
”Please remember to touch out with your Oyster card before you continue your journey on the Elizabeth Line”.
Before it used to say contactless card or device as well.

It affects contact less but why it's not stated is that most people have money to allow them go thru the lizzy line gates even when come the bill it's surcharged them. I know this because quite a few customers end up making a deserved fuss the next day about the overcharge.

Oysters are however mainly the ones you'll see actually block a passenger from entering the gates as often they've ended up in minus balance after the surcharge which is why the announcements I assume prioritise them as they pretty much won't be able to continue their journey without that abrupt stop at the gates

 

[Horizon22]

An issue that could be fixed, as it was on GWR. Before Crossrail started Zone 2 stations like Acton Main Line were ungated.

Yes but that was solved by TFL staffing arrangements and concession agreements. There’s no plan for TfL to take over Southeastern stations like Slade Green and Dartford which is where the ticketless travel problem comes from.

Perhaps an agreement has been reached to install later as it can’t continue in perpetuity at the expense of decent, fare-paying passengers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2023 ==

I can’t speak for what happens elsewhere as I have no experience of how things may or may not work elsewhere. But I have first-hand experience *here*, and I can tell you categorically it’s exactly as I described. Some suppliers are better than others, though, to be fair.

Yesterday evening went well and as is performance currently.

It does seem like a series of unfortunate but consequential events.

 

[ScotGG]

I can't see SouthEastern bothering to gate or even staff most stations. Pretty much all except for Dartford are open all day and night along the line

 

[NSEWonderer]

I can't see SouthEastern bothering to gate or even staff most stations. Pretty much all except for Dartford are open all day and night along the line

They left Abbey Wood to mtrel staff for one indeed. London Bridge is about the only SE station I know is manned by their staff on my line

 

[Dave W]

Have to say the afternoon here - in the early part of the peak - was seamless, and the boards were working at Farringdon and Canary Wharf, although I appreciate these are relatively less complicated than other stations. Was annoyed a Shenfield was just arriving. No sooner had it disappeared had the Abbey Wood arrived - that felt like Victoria Line frequency but with "big" trains.

I will never cease to be amazed at the way these trains gobble up waiting passengers, either. Hopefully a few days of trouble free running will get them into the rhythm.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Faulty platform equipment today currently holding up services on ABW to Paddington branch but should clear up by afternoon

 

[Acton1991]

Another morning of severe delays and cancellations. This line continues to build a pretty negative reputation

 

[43066]

Dartford which is where the ticketless travel problem comes from.

Dartford does have barriers now - albeit (like anywhere) they’re not guaranteed to be open. The vast majority of SE metro stations still don’t, though. It’s hard to see that ever changing.

 

[Taunton]

It's a bit difficult to understand the current crop of disruption, as it doesn't seem to involve anything which is new from the timetable change, but infrastructure and trains which worked so well a year ago. For example, the complete half-hour westbound suspension this morning, which apparently was some issue around Liverpool Street.

Oh, and there was a significant issue on the Canary Wharf branch yesterday afternoon, with multiple 20 minute and more westbound intervals. When you are running what is in effect an Underground route across central London, as here, a 7.5 minute daytime frequency (less than when it opened) is already rather poor, it only needs trains missing or delayed there and people soon start to realise it's quicker to have gone on the Jubilee instead and change, which does not seem afflicted by such gross extended intervals.

 

[matt_world2004]

It's a bit difficult to understand the current crop of disruption, as it doesn't seem to involve anything which is new from the timetable change, but infrastructure and trains which worked so well a year ago. For example, the complete half-hour westbound suspension this morning, which apparently was some issue around Liverpool Street.

Oh, and there was a significant issue on the Canary Wharf branch yesterday afternoon, with multiple 20 minute and more westbound intervals. When you are running what is in effect an Underground route across central London, as here, a 7.5 minute daytime frequency (less than when it opened) is already rather poor, it only needs trains missing or delayed there and people soon start to realise it's quicker to have gone on the Jubilee instead and change, which does not seem afflicted by such gross extended intervals.

Trains have had a buggy software update with elr 400 as a result reliability has tanked since Easter

 

[kevin_roche]

I'm still wondering when the ETCS overlay all the way from Heathrow to Paddington will be implemented.

To answer my own question, I found a link to this Network Rail Exception Application (made in 2019) today. This means there is a current exemption from implementing ETCS until December 2023. I wonder if another application will be made to extend it until after OOC is complete. One of the justifications for delaying ETCS implementation is "Delivery in an area undergoing significant modification" an that will continue for a few years yet.

https://www.orr.gov.uk/media/15025/download

This new exemption application applies between Paddington and Airport
Junction on the Western Mainline where it is proposed the train protection
system will be provided by Enhanced Train Protection Warning System (TPWS)
that has been delivered to provide a comparable level of protection to existing
GW-ATP for the Class 345 Crossrail trains until ETCS is operational.

The exemption application applies only in relation to Crossrail and Heathrow
Express services and will only be utilised until ETCS is installed and available for
the passenger operations between London Paddington and Heathrow Airport.

 

[Horizon22]

It's a bit difficult to understand the current crop of disruption, as it doesn't seem to involve anything which is new from the timetable change, but infrastructure and trains which worked so well a year ago. For example, the complete half-hour westbound suspension this morning, which apparently was some issue around Liverpool Street.

Oh, and there was a significant issue on the Canary Wharf branch yesterday afternoon, with multiple 20 minute and more westbound intervals. When you are running what is in effect an Underground route across central London, as here, a 7.5 minute daytime frequency (less than when it opened) is already rather poor, it only needs trains missing or delayed there and people soon start to realise it's quicker to have gone on the Jubilee instead and change, which does not seem afflicted by such gross extended intervals.

Problem caused by issue with damage to the platform doors.

As for the westbound at Canary Wharf, I imagine it’s an issue with late arrivals into Abbey Wood caused by the increasingly large delays caused by the excess freight on GWML.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2023 ==

Trains have had a buggy software update with elr 400 as a result reliability has tanked since Easter

Very much 3 steps forward, 4 steps back territory.

 

[Thirteen]

Another morning of severe delays and cancellations. This line continues to build a pretty negative reputation

Only you seem to think the Elizabeth Line has a negative reputation, doesn't stop it being the busiest in the UK.

 

[Bald Rick]

Problem caused by issue with damage to the platform doors.

Deliberate action by a passenger, AIUI.

 

[Thirteen]

Deliberate action by a passenger, AIUI.

People need to stop trying to mess with the doors, you can't win against them!

 

[Bald Rick]

People need to stop trying to mess with the doors, you can't win against them!

AIUI, It wasn’t so much messing, as assaulting.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Severe delays owing to signal failure at Ealing Broadway which is affecting most of the line not just the lizzy. There's a delayed Hex service stuck at Pad

 

[Horizon22]

Deliberate action by a passenger, AIUI.

Seemingly so.

And yes a significant signal failure at Ealing Broadway right before the peak, which will lead to a significantly reduced service on the GWML.

Elizabeth line is also one year old today, so that’s an interesting birthday!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2023 ==

Severe delays owing to signal failure at Ealing Broadway which is affecting most of the line not just the lizzy. There's a delayed Hex service stuck at Pad

Would be part of a agreed contingency plan to reduce services to Heathrow.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Effect of that signal failure kicking in. Tho its being handled well enough. More Paddington runners to allow at least the Core and East to run

 

[Acton1991]

Only you seem to think the Elizabeth Line has a negative reputation, doesn't stop it being the busiest in the UK.

The number of passengers has nothing to do with it. Yes it’s carrying a lot of people, but a lot of people see these constant issues

 

[Horizon22]

The number of passengers has nothing to do with it. Yes it’s carrying a lot of people, but a lot of people see these constant issues

And with more people, the amount of people complaining will increase, but perhaps not the %. It's still one of the highest performing TfL modes for customer satisifaction. However, as the line moves into its 2nd year, I'm sure some of that sheen will start to wear off and people will become increasingly critical.

It isn't of course like a London underground line - reliant on two NR routes and TfL's own subsidary (RfLI) for infrastructure, which adds extra complexity and won't be as seamless.

 

[rd749249]

SN199 was blank so that and preceding signal had to be passed at danger. Very time consuming. No idea if fixed yet.

 

[Bald Rick]

SN199 was blank so that and preceding signal had to be passed at danger. Very time consuming. No idea if fixed yet.

yes, sorted

 

[Taunton]

Having just got back to Canary Wharf from The City at 1230, there was an eastbound train to Abbey Wood just missing, and I waited nearly 15 minutes for one. So I have had a look to trace it.

The "missing" train was actually 10 minutes late. But on a service every 7.5 minutes that puts it behind the next one, so is effectively just not there.

Seems it left Reading on time, but a notably late stone train from Merehead was right in front, thus time lost to London.

The stone train was late because although it had been looped for nearly an hour back at Pewsey, it then went out behind a Plymouth express which itself was 15 minutes late. This seems to have happened back at Castle Cary when it got caught behind an equally late running service from Weymouth. That had departed on time but had lost it all at Maiden Newton crossing on the single line a late southbound - which was late because it equally had been delayed at Yeovil by the 0630 (yes) from Weymouth, which had started its day from there 20 minutes late.

So because of some issue at Weymouth before the rest of the family (though not me) had even got up, I've lost time getting within London at lunchtime.

Interesting.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Having just got back to Canary Wharf from The City at 1230, there was an eastbound train to Abbey Wood just missing, and I waited nearly 15 minutes for one. So I have had a look to trace it.

The "missing" train was actually 10 minutes late. But on a service every 7.5 minutes that puts it behind the next one, so is effectively just not there.

Seems it left Reading on time, but a notably late stone train from Merehead was right in front, thus time lost to London.

The stone train was late because although it had been looped for nearly an hour back at Pewsey, it then went out behind a Plymouth express which itself was 15 minutes late. This seems to have happened back at Castle Cary when it got caught behind an equally late running service from Weymouth. That had departed on time but had lost it all at Maiden Newton crossing on the single line a late southbound - which was late because it equally had been delayed at Yeovil by the 0630 (yes) from Weymouth, which had started its day from there 20 minutes late.

So because of some issue at Weymouth before the rest of the family (though not me) had even got up, I've lost time getting within London at lunchtime.

Interesting.

The congested UK rail network! This is why we need investment in capacity if freight is to become a key part of our nation's decarbonisation drive. A long loop on the approaches to Reading would be a good start, as I imagine Newbury has its limitations and there's nothing from the Basingstoke direction either.

 

[JamesT]

Amusingly given this thread is about how unreliable the Elizabeth Line is, the latest ORR report on punctuality has it as the most reliable TOC in the UK:

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/2203/passenger-performance-jan-mar-2023.pdf

 

[Bald Rick]

Having just got back to Canary Wharf from The City at 1230, there was an eastbound train to Abbey Wood just missing, and I waited nearly 15 minutes for one. So I have had a look to trace it.

The "missing" train was actually 10 minutes late. But on a service every 7.5 minutes that puts it behind the next one, so is effectively just not there.

Seems it left Reading on time, but a notably late stone train from Merehead was right in front, thus time lost to London.

The stone train was late because although it had been looped for nearly an hour back at Pewsey, it then went out behind a Plymouth express which itself was 15 minutes late. This seems to have happened back at Castle Cary when it got caught behind an equally late running service from Weymouth. That had departed on time but had lost it all at Maiden Newton crossing on the single line a late southbound - which was late because it equally had been delayed at Yeovil by the 0630 (yes) from Weymouth, which had started its day from there 20 minutes late.

So because of some issue at Weymouth before the rest of the family (though not me) had even got up, I've lost time getting within London at lunchtime.

Interesting.

you really are extraordinarily unlucky. That was the first westbound train of the service day on the AW branch to be out of path and terminate more than 2 mins late.

 

[Taunton]

you really are extraordinarily unlucky. That was the first westbound train of the service day on the AW branch to be out of path and terminate more than 2 mins late.

I suppose the real unluck was just missing the previous Abbey Wood train, which when approaching from the cross-passage I saw departing. But yes. As once described here, on the opening week of the core I was on the one train, caught behind a snafu at Abbey Wood in the evening, which was tipped out at Custom House and reversed there, likely (from the uncertainty all round) the first such ever.

But I guess it's a pointer to the difficulties mixing in a Metro-frequency interleaving service with heavy freight trains, because it's by no means the first time I've been hung up by eastbound Liz trains on the GWML stuck behind out-of-course stone trains. It seems this one had been able to be recessed back down the Berks & Hants for an hour to keep out of the way of passenger services there, but at Reading was just sent straight through down the Liz tracks.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Amusingly given this thread is about how unreliable the Elizabeth Line is, the latest ORR report on punctuality has it as the most reliable TOC in the UK:

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/2203/passenger-performance-jan-mar-2023.pdf

Reliability is the one you want there rather than Punctuality only. Taking both technically if I'm not wrong puts GA top