• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Emirates EK521 crashes on landing in Dubai

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,354
Location
Isle of Man
Emirates flight EK521 has crashed, bursting into flames, on landing in Dubai this morning. The fire seems to have entered the cabin after evacuation. Early rumours are either a landing gear failure or windshear. Emirates have confirmed no fatalities.

Emirates said:
We can confirm that there are no fatalities among our passengers and crew. All passengers and crew are accounted for and safe. #EK521

https://twitter.com/emirates/status/760784814194749440

Remarkable that everyone got out safely and survived. A real credit to the airline, the aircraft (a Boeing 777-300), and Emirates' cabin crew.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

EssexGonzo

Member
Joined
9 May 2012
Messages
636
BBC also says "no injuries" which is even more miraculous. Well done to all involved, very impressive.

There's some video on the BBC website - from a distance - which looks shocking.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
Im not so surprised that it was evacuated but more surprised no firefighters were injured. There was a massive length of fuselage blown in to the sky.

Heard two stories, one says passengers were told there was a landing gear failure and would be a belly landing. The other says the pilots were attempting a go around and retracted the landing gear but the plane did not respond to the request for more power and they were unable to abort.

getasset.aspx
 
Last edited:

IanXC

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
18 Dec 2009
Messages
6,357
BBC News Channel are reporting the Chairman of Emirates stating a Firefighter has died while tackling the blaze.
 

Shaw S Hunter

Established Member
Joined
21 Apr 2016
Messages
2,997
Location
Sunny South Lancs
Surprisingly enough the weather is likely to have been a significant factor in this crash. The local temperature was 50C, warm enough to adversely affect engine performance, and windshear was also reported. The exact sequence is as yet unclear; some reports suggest the aircraft made a hard landing on the landing gear and "bounced" before landing again very soon after with the gear up, others suggest a single landing on the aircraft's belly. It is known that the flightcrew believed they had a problem with the landing gear before attempting to land and also that the Tower Controller confirmed the go around procedure during the course of the crash. Quite possibly the windshear has caused a hard and bounced landing which unnerved the pilot sufficiently to attempt a go around but the engines couldn't produce thrust quickly enough to do so but possibly retracted the landing gear too soon.

All the above gleaned from various aviation sites with my own speculation to finish. As usual with plane accidents the investigation will likely answer all our questions but it will be many months before that happens.
 

theageofthetra

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2012
Messages
3,519
The behaviour of the majority Indian passengers is coming under a lot of scrutiny. The delaying of the evacuation due to them ignoring cabin crew instructions and collecting all their hand luggage whilst the cabin filled with smoke are all over social media. As a marine safety trainer with many years experience told me- the biggest factor in a survivable shipping accident on the death toll is the culture and behaviour of the passengers. In fact there are marine industry reports which specifically look at this.

Additionally many cultures won't take instructions from women, however senior (& this includes some crew)

Anyone who has flown domestic in India, China or elsewhere will be familiar with passengers ignoring cabin crew in structions and walking about whilst on final approach or even upon touch down.

In their defence anyone who has ever needed to replace lost documents in India will have some understanding as to why they were so keen to collect all their belongings regardless of the risk.
 
Last edited:

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,603
Location
Glasgow
The behaviour of the majority Indian passengers is coming under a lot of scrutiny. The delaying of the evacuation due to them ignoring cabin crew instructions and collecting all their hand luggage whilst the cabin filled with smoke are all over social media. As a marine safety trainer with many years experience told me- the biggest factor in a survivable shipping accident on the death toll is the culture and behaviour of the passengers. In fact there are marine industry reports which specifically look at this.

Additionally many cultures won't take instructions from women, however senior (& this includes some crew)

Anyone who has flown domestic in India, China or elsewhere will be familiar with passengers ignoring cabin crew in structions and walking about whilst on final approach or even upon touch down.

In their defence anyone who has ever needed to replace lost documents in India will have some understanding as to why they were so keen to collect all their belongings regardless of the risk.

That is an interesting point. If you've ever flown with Emirates, you'll know that their crews are also extremely diverse in terms of nationality and cultural background. 17 or more languages is not uncommon.

However, didn't passengers on that British Airways flight from Las Vegas to Heathrow that required a swift evacuation also try and retrieve their luggage? So perhaps it's not just Indian passengers that need educating. I'm fairly certain not all airlines emphasise leaving belongings behind in an evacuation in their safety briefings. I can only remember one airline that explicitly says "leave all hand baggage onboard" and that's easyJet, but BA says something about "taking nothing with you".
 
Last edited:

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,181
Location
UK
They did indeed and the many photos showed people with bags. Frankly, they should have been charged with something - and if there's nothing to charge them with, create a new law!
 

theageofthetra

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2012
Messages
3,519
I have flown with Emirates many times & the professionalism of their crew & (ground staff at DXB) is what in no doubt contributed to there being no loss of life other than the poor member of the fire dept.

Alcohol or drug use is also a big factor in passenger behaviour & I completely support any initiative to deny boarding to anyone who appears to be so affected. Airport operators & to some extent the airlines have only themselves to blame when alcohol consumption is so encouraged.

There was a recent flight in Canada where there were serious injurys (& possibly a fatality?) after a massive drop in altitude during a storm- the passenger were almost entirely Chinese & how many ignored repeated requests to put seatbelts on was a factor in the injury toll- did they not understand the instructions?
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,354
Location
Isle of Man
The behaviour of the majority Indian passengers is coming under a lot of scrutiny. The delaying of the evacuation due to them ignoring cabin crew instructions and collecting all their hand luggage whilst the cabin filled with smoke are all over social media.

The issue is not specific to India and China, the people evacuated from the BA 777 that had an uncontrolled engine failure in Las Vegas also took all their carry on bags with them. There were similar reports that people evacuated from a BA jet which has suffered a fuel spillage at Heathrow yesterday also took their bags with them, even after the pilot had specifically told them not to.

It's a tough one. Most people will never experience an emergency evacuation. It's easy to sit in an armchair and criticise. I think it is moronic but also can understand why, in a stressful situation, people would revert to behaviour that they know. And when you get off your plane you open the locker and take your bags with you.

The plane was, according to posters on PPRuNe, still evacuated in about 90 seconds

ETA: Also bear in mind where the plane was flying from and to. I'd say the vast majority of people on that flight were heading to Dubai for work and were relatively poor. They won't see their hand luggage as replaceable. Some of it- passports, money, cash cards- won't be. Even after an emergency evacuation the UAE is not a country I'd want to rock up at with no money, no clothes and no papers, and that's as a UK national, never mind as an Indian national.
 
Last edited:

theageofthetra

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2012
Messages
3,519
A good point re how different cultures treat belongings which some would consider replaceable.

On Costa Concordia the mostly Southern Italian manifest went back to cabins starting to fill with water to get personal belongings. Some of the few phone video images of passenger/crew behaviour in that disaster are eye opening and will affect maritime training for years to come.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
They did indeed and the many photos showed people with bags. Frankly, they should have been charged with something - and if there's nothing to charge them with, create a new law!

Nevermind the bags, people stopped to film it on their mobiles!
 

Tim R-T-C

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2011
Messages
2,143
The behaviour of the majority Indian passengers is coming under a lot of scrutiny. The delaying of the evacuation due to them ignoring cabin crew instructions and collecting all their hand luggage whilst the cabin filled with smoke are all over social media. As a marine safety trainer with many years experience told me- the biggest factor in a survivable shipping accident on the death toll is the culture and behaviour of the passengers. In fact there are marine industry reports which specifically look at this.

Additionally many cultures won't take instructions from women, however senior (& this includes some crew)

Anyone who has flown domestic in India, China or elsewhere will be familiar with passengers ignoring cabin crew in structions and walking about whilst on final approach or even upon touch down.

In their defence anyone who has ever needed to replace lost documents in India will have some understanding as to why they were so keen to collect all their belongings regardless of the risk.

Don't forget the same issues were raised after the BA plane fire in Las Vegas, although reports there were that people were taking their bags actually down the emergency slides with them and the evacuation took longer, the passengers there were mostly British....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34191035

think people are often in shock and of course probably have a lot of important things they want to grab. Passports, cards, money, phones - things that could cause a lot of issues being without in a foreign country. Imagine the complexity of getting home from the Middle East without a passport or money.

I think the best solution would be centrally locking overhead bins - it would also be a safety feature, limiting the risk of them flying open on a crash. Passengers should be told to carry passports/important documents and vital medication on their person on the flight, so they won't need to try and get them.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,181
Location
UK
Better option is to tell people with bags to go and put them back on the plane...
 

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,603
Location
Glasgow
Perhaps everyone needs to wear an airline bum bag with their valuables inside!
 

Jonny

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
2,563
Don't forget the same issues were raised after the BA plane fire in Las Vegas, although reports there were that people were taking their bags actually down the emergency slides with them and the evacuation took longer, the passengers there were mostly British....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34191035

think people are often in shock and of course probably have a lot of important things they want to grab. Passports, cards, money, phones - things that could cause a lot of issues being without in a foreign country. Imagine the complexity of getting home from the Middle East without a passport or money.

I think the best solution would be centrally locking overhead bins - it would also be a safety feature, limiting the risk of them flying open on a crash. Passengers should be told to carry passports/important documents and vital medication on their person on the flight, so they won't need to try and get them.

The first problem with bin locking is that it would have to turn on and off during a flight, how else would people be able to reach the bins during a flight. The second is that bags can also be placed under seats, so if the bins are locking then people may keep them on the floor under the seat in front. The third is that the mechanism would most likely add weight, which (as well as reducing efficiency) doesn't help in emergency scenarios. That's before the fact that no viable design has been proposed... or that it would need power to work.
 

Nippy

Member
Joined
13 Aug 2013
Messages
657
When I fly, I always wear my combat type trousers and have my (and my families) passports in my pocket along with phone and wallet for take off and landing.
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,354
Location
Isle of Man
I think the best solution would be centrally locking overhead bins

I don't. The overhead bins are where you put laptops, with their lovely big lithium batteries. You'll stop passengers trying to take cabin baggage in a crash; you'll also prevent firefighting if one of those lithium batteries catches fire.

There's also the question of whether passengers would go "oh it's locked, I'll move on" or whether they'd stand there for five minutes beating the locker into submission.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,181
Location
UK
I generally keep my passport in a pocket when flying. My wallet too. My phone will be out, and I rarely use a laptop on a plane. So, I'd not even feel the need to grab my bag as 'my life' is already with me.

Perhaps if you can't stop human nature, you encourage people to keep things like this with them so they won't feel they have to go and get their bag.
 

Tim R-T-C

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2011
Messages
2,143
It must be annoying for people who have followed the rules and left their bags to go up in smoke, to see others carrying their belongings safely off the plane.

I wonder if "failure to promptly evacuate an aircraft" could be made an offence, with a £1000 fine. Might make people think twice.
 

me123

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2007
Messages
8,510
They did indeed and the many photos showed people with bags. Frankly, they should have been charged with something - and if there's nothing to charge them with, create a new law!

In spite of the fact that most people probably hear the safety demonstration at least twice a year, it's remarkable how bad lots of evacuations are.

The jet2 evacuation in Glasgow some years ago was brilliantly awful. Most people blamed jet2 of course, but I think the blame actually lies entirely with the passengers. The 737 aborted takeoff due to smoke in the cockpit (IIRC) and evacuated onto the runway.

Some passengers climbed onto the wing, most with their luggage. However having realised that they'd have to slide down the flaps (it was an older 737-300 model), they then climbed back into the cabin with their bags (yes, really!) to have a go on the slides instead. Once they got to the bottom of the slide, they got their phone out, turned around and took a video. Passengers complained that the pilot put the brakes on too hard, that the cabin crew were shouting "get out", and that there was no-one at the bottom of the evacuation slide to catch them. Thankfully, some of them decided not to go on their holidays.

I wish I'd made that up. I really do.

"Obstructing the emergency evacuation of an aircraft" should be a criminal offence IMO, as the actions potentially risk the lives of the other passengers, crew and potentially rescue personnel. Indeed, it risks your own life too.

Back to this situation, though, and in spite of the suboptimal evacuation I'm pleased to see that all the passengers and crew survived - surely this is testament to the professionalism of the crew in the situation, and I hope they're commended for their actions. Thoughts with the family of the firefighter who lost his life.
 
Last edited:

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
Perhaps an 'Evacuation bag' could be devised; maybe a basic cloth drawstring bag, attached with sturdy velcro to the seatback storage pockets. Pax would be required to keep passports, tix and documents, and other valuables in the bag for the flight, with crew reminding them to do this prior to takeoff. If the brown stuff hits the fan, the punters can grab the bag and leave the plane with their essentials on them. Not ideal, but perhaps better than the alternative?!
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,181
Location
UK
Might make people a bit more scared, although it's a good idea in principle.

Of course the new problem is people leaving them behind.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
25,141
Location
Nottingham
Might make people a bit more scared, although it's a good idea in principle.

Of course the new problem is people leaving them behind.

Or getting the drawstrings tangled round armrests, other passengers, etc.

Keeping wallet, passport and phone in a pocket seems the best idea to me.

On force of habit, one of my teachers had previously been flying jet fighters for the RAF, presumably before the invention of ejector seats. The practice was to leave the folded and packed parachute on the seat, so that the next pilot could climb in more easily, sit on the parachute and do up the straps before starting their mission. One day he had to bale out (or so he told us at least) and proceeded to open the canopy as usual, undo the parachute straps as usual, and begin to climb out of the cockpit as usual ... before remembering he might have a need of the parachute on this occasion.
 
Last edited:

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
Some research has been done and they found that it was mainly shock/surprise that caused people to attempt to take bags rather than selfish intent.

When evacuation drills are done the volunteers know what to expect and so listen to the instruction not to take bags but because an actual emergency is a surprise situation people don't have the time to process it rationally and instinctively go through the same motions as they would when getting off a plane normally. Its a reflex action to attempt to retrieve bags.
 

welshpax

Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
83
I work in an office overlooking the runway at Dubai Airport and saw the whole thing unfolding. Was in a meeting and the phone went off saying that a plane was on fire, looked out the window and could see the passengers being evacuated on to the runway.

A couple of minutes later the fire service were on the scene and went to work, it was quite surreal to see this take place before my eyes.

After what seemed like a few more minutes there was a huge explosion and you could see the fireball.

At this point it felt a little macabre to keep watching as we did not know if there was anyone still inside the plane, so we went back inside and continued the meeting.

I have to say I am impressed with how the emergency services handled the event, and even although a firefighter lost his life, it could have been much much worse.

Also really impressed with how quickly the airport was reopened, I came into the office at 7am the next day and most of the wreckage had been removed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top