I had one of those yesterday on a VST Nottingham - Norwich extra (it was split at Notts at the last minute because the Liverpool part was something like 50 late leaving Sheffield). Lovely seats (albeit broken recline!) but the tables and panels are full of holes and glue where things have been unceremoniously removed. It still had the posters promising a full refurb.That was an ex Scotrail 170/4. Horribly tatty inside as you said, but there are indeed a few little perks such as the 2+1 seating at the end.
Hello everyone, my friend sent me a picture, yes it does seem 170 turbos reappearing on LIverpool to Notts, but as we ll known their capacity is reduced, 3 cars came yesterday ( not sure what time) and it was full and standing before Stockport, things don't seem to be getting any better, with so many 2 cars as well it feels like we've gone back to East Midlands Trains early days i.e. a poor service. Not helped with many TPE cancellations I am glad i don't use that secytion anymore to get to Peternorough. Let's hope things improve in the autumn.170638 allocated to 1051 Liverpool-Norwich and 1656 Norwich-Manchester return.
Another visit to Liverpool and, assuming it isn't swapped out at Nottingham, its first visit with EMR to Norwich.
Just seen on Facebook that 171202 and 171402 have been reformed back into 3 car units. They should be moving north in the next few weeks although I'm not yet sure on whether they'll have the couplings changed before they enter service or if they'll press them into traffic with a no coupling rule, although I'd imagine it to be the former as it's easier
By the other, I assume. Which would be a nightmare if the other is working a different passenger service.And if one fails how is it to be rescued?
By the other, I assume. Which would be a nightmare if the other is working a different passenger service.
And if one fails how is it to be rescued?
By the other, I assume. Which would be a nightmare if the other is working a different passenger service.
If they are coupled together which half is locked out. The front / rear or always the 170.
I know a few 170 / 15x are scheduled in Lincolnshire but normally at times to avoid an ECS rather then because you need the seats.
Seemingly, some EMR managers claim that multiple worked 170's in Lincolnshire do not happen.You lock out the rear set, generally.
It was my understanding they were banned from marshlink on arrival as there was a small conversion course, and that course was being prioritised at SelhurstNot sure about their recent reliability but on arrival at Southern the ex Scotrail units were so unreliable they were banned from Marshlink.
The WMT 170s just need an interior refurb and they will be good to carry on.The ex Scotish units are the reason why a refurbishment really cannot be cancelled.
Some of the 170s such as those from WMT are not that bad (although far from great),but the Scotish units are really tatty and heavenknows what they will look like if no refurbishment is done.
When they first arrived they had posters saying a refurb was on the way so people at EMR clearly understood the poor impression they give and the need to refurbish them
A light refresh with new carpets, seat cushions and work to repair/repaint internally fixtures would-be a start. It's not asking for the earth when you consider that Avanti did this on their voyagers and they're off leave soon.
That’s what we’re saying. They all need doing internally. No one is saying the exterior has issues.The WMT 170s just need an interior refurb and they will be good to carry on.
They are perfectly fine when in service and fine on the outside. Hopefully EMR sort the inside out soon.That’s what we’re saying. They all need doing internally. No one is saying the exterior has issues.
Subject to the hated DfT signing anything off, of course. I think EMR’s refurbishment plans (eg 810 seating with all the mod cons) are good; but they don’t hold the purse strings. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “refurbishment” that actually happens is seat cover replacements only.They are perfectly fine when in service and fine on the outside. Hopefully EMR sort the inside out soon.
Frankly then, I think the passengers on EMR deserve some kind of goodwill gesture. It wouldn’t be even nearly as appalling if they hadn’t stuck pictures of newly done 170s with new seats and PISs all over the shabby Turbostars.Subject to the hated DfT signing anything off, of course. I think EMR’s refurbishment plans (eg 810 seating with all the mod cons) are good; but they don’t hold the purse strings. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “refurbishment” that actually happens is seat cover replacements only.
I agree - personally as long as they get a decent moquette top up, power sockets and a deep clean, then that’s good enough in my books. Very much like Northern’s 170s which IMO was executed very well.What exactly is wrong with the seats in the Turbostars - why do they need replacing? Unlike the rubbish from the Mk3-derived MUs, they are normally sized (rather than being hopelessly small and low to the ground) and by modern standards they have lots of padding. They also have seat-back tables.
They’re ok to be fair; but it’s the fact that a superior specification (the 810 seat and all the other trimmings) was promised - all the more so via the aforementioned posters. Expectations have been set, so now they need delivering.What exactly is wrong with the seats in the Turbostars - why do they need replacing? Unlike the rubbish from the Mk3-derived MUs, they are normally sized (rather than being hopelessly small and low to the ground) and by modern standards they have lots of padding. They also have seat-back tables.
Those three things you list would, I agree, suffice for a 170 refurbishment; but the problem is that a far superior spec was promised. I think the lesson here is to promise only what is realistically achievable - overpromising and underachieving seem to be a recurring theme since EMR came to life.I agree - personally as long as they get a decent moquette top up, power sockets and a deep clean, then that’s good enough in my books. Very much like Northern’s 170s which IMO was executed very well.
Personally I think the new seats would have been less superior to the current offerings, so kind of glad they aren’t going for a full seat replacement. Pity the same can’t be said about the 360s…They’re ok to be fair; but it’s the fact that a superior specification (the 810 seat and all the other trimmings) was promised - all the more so via the aforementioned posters. Expectations have been set, so now they need delivering.
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Those three things you list would, I agree, suffice for a 170 refurbishment; but the problem is that a far superior spec was promised. I think the lesson here is to promise only what is realistically achievable - overpromising and underachieving seem to be a recurring theme since EMR came to life.
Has that seat been used anywhere else yet? There's little wrong with the 170 seat as fitted to the ex-ScotRail ones.They’re ok to be fair; but it’s the fact that a superior specification (the 810 seat and all the other trimmings)
Not yet no - the EMR fleet is the first to use this design. And I can understand the logic behind it - it would have given EMR a consistent seat across it's fleet, but at the same time there is little wrong with the current Chapmans as fitted to the ScotRail / Southern fleets, or the bigger and slightly bulkier Lazzerini seats fitted to the ex London Midland units.Has that seat been used anywhere else yet? There's little wrong with the 170 seat as fitted to the ex-ScotRail ones.
Oh, I can understand the reason.Not yet no - the EMR fleet is the first to use this design. And I can understand the logic behind it - it would have given EMR a consistent seat across it's fleet, but at the same time there is little wrong with the current Chapmans as fitted to the ScotRail / Southern fleets, or the bigger and slightly bulkier Lazzerini seats fitted to the ex London Midland units.
I used the word superior to refer to the refurbishment spec as a whole as opposed to just the seats - as you say, though, seating is very much subjective and we still have to see whether the EMR LEANs live up to the huge hype!Oh, I can understand the reason.
I'm just asking as seats are a highly subjective, and no-one can say whether the proposed ones are "superior" yet. The rest of the fit-out is a different matter.
They’re ok to be fair; but it’s the fact that a superior specification (the 810 seat and all the other trimmings) was promised - all the more so via the aforementioned posters. Expectations have been set, so now they need delivering.
Couldn’t agree more. Having moved from Southeastern suburban land to EMR land I feel like I’ve missed out twiceAgreed the reason why we are so disappointed is that East Midlands passengers were promised a lot and now it's not happening. We used to have 170s running these routes till they got moved away for sprinters. Now that other areas are getting new trains we're meant to be grateful to have them back as with the refurbished they'll be as good as anew train. Except that's not the case.
Seeing what diffrent regions got from their latest franchises and what EMR got it reminds me of Bullseye where Jim would say "come and have a look at what you could have won"
Rub a bit of saltin the wound DFT
Suppose we shall wait and see what happens. Only time will tell.Subject to the hated DfT signing anything off, of course. I think EMR’s refurbishment plans (eg 810 seating with all the mod cons) are good; but they don’t hold the purse strings. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “refurbishment” that actually happens is seat cover replacements only.
Much better than the awful 156s which seem to frequent the route nowadays…2 car 170503 working 1R58 and return from lime Street this morning