EMR Class 170 updates

[43102EMR]

My guess is they’ll be moving via the WLL?

 

[urpert]

That was an ex Scotrail 170/4. Horribly tatty inside as you said, but there are indeed a few little perks such as the 2+1 seating at the end.

I had one of those yesterday on a VST Nottingham - Norwich extra (it was split at Notts at the last minute because the Liverpool part was something like 50 late leaving Sheffield). Lovely seats (albeit broken recline!) but the tables and panels are full of holes and glue where things have been unceremoniously removed. It still had the posters promising a full refurb.

Most of the Skeg trains I saw seemed to be 170s too.

 

[morgainelive]

170638 allocated to 1051 Liverpool-Norwich and 1656 Norwich-Manchester return.

Another visit to Liverpool and, assuming it isn't swapped out at Nottingham, its first visit with EMR to Norwich.

Hello everyone, my friend sent me a picture, yes it does seem 170 turbos reappearing on LIverpool to Notts, but as we ll known their capacity is reduced, 3 cars came yesterday ( not sure what time) and it was full and standing before Stockport, things don't seem to be getting any better, with so many 2 cars as well it feels like we've gone back to East Midlands Trains early days i.e. a poor service. Not helped with many TPE cancellations I am glad i don't use that secytion anymore to get to Peternorough. Let's hope things improve in the autumn.

 

[IanXC]

Just seen on Facebook that 171202 and 171402 have been reformed back into 3 car units. They should be moving north in the next few weeks although I'm not yet sure on whether they'll have the couplings changed before they enter service or if they'll press them into traffic with a no coupling rule, although I'd imagine it to be the former as it's easier

And if one fails how is it to be rescued?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

And if one fails how is it to be rescued?

By the other, I assume. Which would be a nightmare if the other is working a different passenger service.

 

[IanXC]

By the other, I assume. Which would be a nightmare if the other is working a different passenger service.

I guess its either that or a loco with a translator coupler. *If* Network Rail deem it acceptable to allow these two units to operate with their existing couplers, then it also follows that if one of them is unavailable for traffic then the other cannot enter traffic either, as it cannot be rescued. I'd be astounded if they're allowed into traffic without new couplers.

 

[paul1609]

Not sure about their recent reliability but on arrival at Southern the ex Scotrail units were so unreliable they were banned from Marshlink.

 

[TheBigD]

And if one fails how is it to be rescued?

By the other, I assume. Which would be a nightmare if the other is working a different passenger service.

It's already been posted up thread that they will be limited to the Robin Hood Line whilst they retain their Dellner couplers.

Edit, posted in the thread "Southern class 171 transfer to EMR", post #12.

 

[High Dyke]

If they are coupled together which half is locked out. The front / rear or always the 170.

I know a few 170 / 15x are scheduled in Lincolnshire but normally at times to avoid an ECS rather then because you need the seats.

You lock out the rear set, generally.

Seemingly, some EMR managers claim that multiple worked 170's in Lincolnshire do not happen.

 

[aleggatta]

Not sure about their recent reliability but on arrival at Southern the ex Scotrail units were so unreliable they were banned from Marshlink.

It was my understanding they were banned from marshlink on arrival as there was a small conversion course, and that course was being prioritised at Selhurst

 

[Jacob Porrett]

The ex Scotish units are the reason why a refurbishment really cannot be cancelled.

Some of the 170s such as those from WMT are not that bad (although far from great),but the Scotish units are really tatty and heavenknows what they will look like if no refurbishment is done.

When they first arrived they had posters saying a refurb was on the way so people at EMR clearly understood the poor impression they give and the need to refurbish them

A light refresh with new carpets, seat cushions and work to repair/repaint internally fixtures would-be a start. It's not asking for the earth when you consider that Avanti did this on their voyagers and they're off leave soon.

The WMT 170s just need an interior refurb and they will be good to carry on.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The WMT 170s just need an interior refurb and they will be good to carry on.

That’s what we’re saying. They all need doing internally. No one is saying the exterior has issues.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

That’s what we’re saying. They all need doing internally. No one is saying the exterior has issues.

They are perfectly fine when in service and fine on the outside. Hopefully EMR sort the inside out soon.

 

[QSK19]

They are perfectly fine when in service and fine on the outside. Hopefully EMR sort the inside out soon.

Subject to the hated DfT signing anything off, of course. I think EMR’s refurbishment plans (eg 810 seating with all the mod cons) are good; but they don’t hold the purse strings. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “refurbishment” that actually happens is seat cover replacements only.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Subject to the hated DfT signing anything off, of course. I think EMR’s refurbishment plans (eg 810 seating with all the mod cons) are good; but they don’t hold the purse strings. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “refurbishment” that actually happens is seat cover replacements only.

Frankly then, I think the passengers on EMR deserve some kind of goodwill gesture. It wouldn’t be even nearly as appalling if they hadn’t stuck pictures of newly done 170s with new seats and PISs all over the shabby Turbostars.

 

[py_megapixel]

What exactly is wrong with the seats in the Turbostars - why do they need replacing? Unlike the rubbish from the Mk3-derived MUs, they are normally sized (rather than being hopelessly small and low to the ground) and by modern standards they have lots of padding. They also have seat-back tables.

 

[43102EMR]

What exactly is wrong with the seats in the Turbostars - why do they need replacing? Unlike the rubbish from the Mk3-derived MUs, they are normally sized (rather than being hopelessly small and low to the ground) and by modern standards they have lots of padding. They also have seat-back tables.

I agree - personally as long as they get a decent moquette top up, power sockets and a deep clean, then that’s good enough in my books. Very much like Northern’s 170s which IMO was executed very well.

 

[QSK19]

What exactly is wrong with the seats in the Turbostars - why do they need replacing? Unlike the rubbish from the Mk3-derived MUs, they are normally sized (rather than being hopelessly small and low to the ground) and by modern standards they have lots of padding. They also have seat-back tables.

They’re ok to be fair; but it’s the fact that a superior specification (the 810 seat and all the other trimmings) was promised - all the more so via the aforementioned posters. Expectations have been set, so now they need delivering.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2022 ==

I agree - personally as long as they get a decent moquette top up, power sockets and a deep clean, then that’s good enough in my books. Very much like Northern’s 170s which IMO was executed very well.

Those three things you list would, I agree, suffice for a 170 refurbishment; but the problem is that a far superior spec was promised. I think the lesson here is to promise only what is realistically achievable - overpromising and underachieving seem to be a recurring theme since EMR came to life.

 

[43102EMR]

They’re ok to be fair; but it’s the fact that a superior specification (the 810 seat and all the other trimmings) was promised - all the more so via the aforementioned posters. Expectations have been set, so now they need delivering.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2022 ==


Those three things you list would, I agree, suffice for a 170 refurbishment; but the problem is that a far superior spec was promised. I think the lesson here is to promise only what is realistically achievable - overpromising and underachieving seem to be a recurring theme since EMR came to life.

Personally I think the new seats would have been less superior to the current offerings, so kind of glad they aren’t going for a full seat replacement. Pity the same can’t be said about the 360s…

 

[Davester50]

They’re ok to be fair; but it’s the fact that a superior specification (the 810 seat and all the other trimmings)

Has that seat been used anywhere else yet? There's little wrong with the 170 seat as fitted to the ex-ScotRail ones.

 

[fgwrich]

Has that seat been used anywhere else yet? There's little wrong with the 170 seat as fitted to the ex-ScotRail ones.

Not yet no - the EMR fleet is the first to use this design. And I can understand the logic behind it - it would have given EMR a consistent seat across it's fleet, but at the same time there is little wrong with the current Chapmans as fitted to the ScotRail / Southern fleets, or the bigger and slightly bulkier Lazzerini seats fitted to the ex London Midland units.

 

[Davester50]

Not yet no - the EMR fleet is the first to use this design. And I can understand the logic behind it - it would have given EMR a consistent seat across it's fleet, but at the same time there is little wrong with the current Chapmans as fitted to the ScotRail / Southern fleets, or the bigger and slightly bulkier Lazzerini seats fitted to the ex London Midland units.

Oh, I can understand the reason.
I'm just asking as seats are a highly subjective, and no-one can say whether the proposed ones are "superior" yet. The rest of the fit-out is a different matter.

 

[QSK19]

Oh, I can understand the reason.
I'm just asking as seats are a highly subjective, and no-one can say whether the proposed ones are "superior" yet. The rest of the fit-out is a different matter.

I used the word superior to refer to the refurbishment spec as a whole as opposed to just the seats - as you say, though, seating is very much subjective and we still have to see whether the EMR LEANs live up to the huge hype!

 

[STINT47]

They’re ok to be fair; but it’s the fact that a superior specification (the 810 seat and all the other trimmings) was promised - all the more so via the aforementioned posters. Expectations have been set, so now they need delivering.

Agreed the reason why we are so disappointed is that East Midlands passengers were promised a lot and now it's not happening. We used to have 170s running these routes till they got moved away for sprinters. Now that other areas are getting new trains we're meant to be grateful to have them back as with the refurbished they'll be as good as anew train. Except that's not the case.

Seeing what diffrent regions got from their latest franchises and what EMR got it reminds me of Bullseye where Jim would say "come and have a look at what you could have won"

Rub a bit of saltin the wound DFT

 

[RailWonderer]

Those 170s, especially with the Lazzerini seats the ex-LM and XC ones have are superb. They just need new seat covers and new carpets, tables cleaned in the new livery and they'll be perfect. A good example of a smaller scale refurb done well was the Avanti Voyagers.

 

[urpert]

Agreed the reason why we are so disappointed is that East Midlands passengers were promised a lot and now it's not happening. We used to have 170s running these routes till they got moved away for sprinters. Now that other areas are getting new trains we're meant to be grateful to have them back as with the refurbished they'll be as good as anew train. Except that's not the case.

Seeing what diffrent regions got from their latest franchises and what EMR got it reminds me of Bullseye where Jim would say "come and have a look at what you could have won"

Rub a bit of saltin the wound DFT

Couldn’t agree more. Having moved from Southeastern suburban land to EMR land I feel like I’ve missed out twice

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Subject to the hated DfT signing anything off, of course. I think EMR’s refurbishment plans (eg 810 seating with all the mod cons) are good; but they don’t hold the purse strings. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “refurbishment” that actually happens is seat cover replacements only.

Suppose we shall wait and see what happens. Only time will tell.

 

[dosxuk]

At the moment I'd just settle for the right number of carriages to turn up at the right time and end up in the right place at the right time. I'll put up with a shabby interior if it means I'll get to where I want to go on time. At the moment talk of seat comfort is pointless as half the time there isn't any available anyway.

A service that is so unreliable as to be useless is of no good to anyone, regardless of the state of the interior or how fancy their marketing is.

 

[Kite159]

A decent refurbish for those 170/4 & 5s would be like what GA did to the 170/2s before they got replaced by the Flirts and ended up in Wales.

New seat cushions to replace those seats which have collapsed, sockets (preferably those with USB ports at the top), new carpets etc

 

[43102EMR]

2 car 170503 working 1R58 and return from lime Street this morning

Much better than the awful 156s which seem to frequent the route nowadays…